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Spoiler Is Zelda a Female Jesus?

Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Oklahoma
I ask this question because it seems that way when you go through the second gate of time after getting the sacred flames Zelda says that Hylia set two plans in motion. One being creation of Fi the other being coming back as a mortal. Does that mean the Zelda developers are trying to portray Zelda as jesus meaning a god/goddess in human form so that she could "use" link to destroy Demise/devil? Thoughts on how this plays into a multiple zelda/ganondorf/link theory on the timeline?
 
A

Axion

Guest
Hylia is a goddess, but not of the same "tier", per se, as the three golden goddesses (Farore, Din, and Nayru). Think of Farore, Din, and Nayru as the Zeuses of the Zelda universe and think of Hylia as a, say, Poseidon. Farore, Din, and Nayru are just higher up the ladder on the immortal hierarchy than Hylia is, but she is (was) nevertheless a goddess.

And yes, Zelda did "use" Link to destroy Demise.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Akkala
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Hylian Champion
Hylia isn't a goddess, I'm pretty sure because A) she could be hurt and :cool: she couldn't defeat Demise a second time around. Anyone and anything that claims to be a god(dess) should be impenetrable, invincible. Hylia/Zelda is nowhere near that. I know this because:

Hylia PURPOSEFULLY gave up her "goddess" form to become a MORTAL. LINK is the one who used the Triforce. Hylia could EASILY have dealt with Demise a second time around, but we get some ridiculous story about how she drops herself down in rank, only to become a plot device and a ruined character. Even if Hylia couldn't have, she could always have told Link how to obtain the Triforce and destroy Demise.

So with that in mind, I wouldn't say Zelda/Hylia is anywhere near the Jesus of Christian belief. Not even close.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Hylia isn't a goddess, I'm pretty sure because A) she could be hurt and :cool: she couldn't defeat Demise a second time around. Anyone and anything that claims to be a god(dess) should be impenetrable, invincible. Hylia/Zelda is nowhere near that. I know this because:

Hylia PURPOSEFULLY gave up her "goddess" form to become a MORTAL. LINK is the one who used the Triforce. Hylia could EASILY have dealt with Demise a second time around, but we get some ridiculous story about how she drops herself down in rank, only to become a plot device and a ruined character. Even if Hylia couldn't have, she could always have told Link how to obtain the Triforce and destroy Demise.

So with that in mind, I wouldn't say Zelda/Hylia is anywhere near the Jesus of Christian belief. Not even close.

Hylia is a goddess; such is stated in-game. A hierarchical system of gods and goddesses obviously exists in the Zelda universe, and Hylia is simply lower on the latter. This can be compared to many real-world cultures that share a similar system. To best sum it up:
Hylia is a goddess, but not of the same "tier", per se, as the three golden goddesses (Farore, Din, and Nayru). Think of Farore, Din, and Nayru as the Zeuses of the Zelda universe and think of Hylia as a, say, Poseidon. Farore, Din, and Nayru are just higher up the ladder on the immortal hierarchy than Hylia is, but she is (was) nevertheless a goddess.

And yes, Zelda did "use" Link to destroy Demise.
:yes:
 
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Djinn

and Tonic
Joined
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The Flying Mobile Opression fortress
I think you guys are not quite getting the eastern system and the definition if what makes up a god in Shinto and Buddhist thought. I see people are constantly equating deities in Zelda to Greek myth, well that does not cover all ends at all. And I think it would be best to not use the Greek model to cover all things polytheism because different cultures have different definitions. Yes they are all immortal and all powerful to the Greeks, but the Norse gods were very different and the Celtic gods even more down to earth than that. Many did live in various areas on the land and some were almost as normal as the people they lorded over. Not everyone maintained the concept of immortality for deities either, Norse and Celtic gods died on a few occasions, as well as Persian and Babylonian gods. Also in other cultures very different things would be considered a deity and worshipped by locals for things like fertile ground or rain, etc.

Especially in Shinotism, where a large rock or especially old tree could be considered a deity and worthy or worship by the local people. Clear it is not an all powerful immortal being that encompasses a thought or concept, but it is no less a deity. Shintoism also makes a clear divide between the aristocratic gods of heaven and the more common gods of earth. While the gods of heaven might be closer to the western concept of gods that rule from on high. The lower class of gods were much more common and lived in various places on the earth and impacted people's lives more often. They were certainly not considered all powerful immortal alpha and omega beings. Many were just the residing spirit of a lake, river, or mountain. And were more like a spiritual noble lord that ruled it. Even then you have to remember that the original high creator goddess Izanami that helped form the universe, died in childbirth and remained dead after that. So even the higher gods were not all powerful either.

I also think RPGs have done a lot of tarnish people's concept of what makes up a deity. Whereas in games all gods absolutely must be more powerful than players. Well players are sometimes capable of blowing up mountains and teleporting through planes. Then gods must by nature be above lev 99 to start out and casually toss around world shattering spells like they are nothing. This is also not quite true, even in certain western mythologies. Celtic gods would occasionally get into wrestling matches with people and lose or be outdone in a contest. The Irish Hero Cuculain fought and severely wounded a goddess who took several forms to kill him. So the depictions of deities in a Zelda game are not all that different. Even Cyclos and Zephos in WW fit as gods of wind even though fans do not agree with it because they are not depicted as giants wearing togas and all powerful. However as lower deities of the earth that hold a position over one element they fit well into eastern tradition.

Even the storytelling of the Goddess fighting the demons and being hurt or defeated herself is not quite new a concept. Something like that has been told in many mythologies before. The Celtic gods continually warred with the Fomorians for centuries. With members of each side losing people in the fighting. Even the high kind of the Celtic deities was permanently mutilated in the fighting. The were also the Asura in Hindu tradition that were a group of powerful beings that constantly warred with the gods and tried to seek more power as a result. The Norse gods fought the Thursr, or frost giants, sometimes winning and sometimes losing in each battle. So the idea of an evil tribe of being that wage war with the gods and occasionally kill one or two is a time honored tradition in many different cultures around the world. Zelda is not quite unique in this aspect. So the goddess Hylia could very well be a goddess herself, just not one in the Geek mindset that is infallable. Even then the Greek Gods were afraid of and came close to being defeated on two occasions. The first time against the moster Typhon who defeated Zeus at first but was later stopped. Even then he could not be completely defeated in combat and instead was sealed underneath Mt. Etna. The other time was when the gigantes, who were described as just giants, invaded Olympus. It took the combined efforts of the gods, the fates, and Heracles to defeat them since it was prophesied that the gods would have been defeated in that battle. Even then three giants are also buried in the earth instead of killed which is described as how earthquakes are formed by their writhing underneath the soil.
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
There's only one type of religion that I've learned of where its deity is absolute. Those are the types that believe in the one and only God. All others I've learned of so far (granted, isn't a whole lot, but still...) have a tolerance to be proven wrong and learning from their mistakes. God, on the other hand, is perfect and unquestionable. Whereas Greek gods and titans are said to be immortal, but often get injured and/or sometimes killed. (and no, I'm not talking about the God of War games. Those were completely made up and are not a true part of Greek Mythology).
I think Nintendo created a "vulnerable gods" style, like everyone else but Christians and Catholics.
Sorry if this was mentioned in Djinn's crazy long post. If so, at least I simplified it a little.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
hylia never defeated demise, she at most imprisoned it

teh triforce can only be used by human so she become human to wish the death of demise so the world will never have to fear him again

She becoem human cauz she needed to destroy demise once and for all
 

Djinn

and Tonic
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Location
The Flying Mobile Opression fortress
hylia never defeated demise, she at most imprisoned it

teh triforce can only be used by human so she become human to wish the death of demise so the world will never have to fear him again

She becoem human cauz she needed to destroy demise once and for all

It is never stated that she used the triforce, and she was said to have defeated Demise. She gave up her original form in part to seal Demise but even then he was too powerful to remain sealed forever.

It's impossible to know the true reason
why the old gods created the Triforce.
But I have a theory of my own.

The gods created the Triforce, yet they
specifically designed it so that their
own kind could never use its power.

Somehow, I think that may have been
their way of giving hope to all the
mortal beings of the land.

...Which brings us back to you.



To face Demise and give the land hope,
the goddess, Hylia, needed someone
with an unbreakable spirit. That
someone is you, [Link].

The old gods created a supreme power
that gave anyone who possessed it the
ability to shape reality and fulfill any
desire. They called it the Triforce.
In his thirst to make the world his own,
Demise readied a massive army of
monsters for war. He sought to take
the Triforce for himself by force.
The goddess feared for her people.
She used her power to send both them
and the Triforce into the sky on a slice
of earth she cut away from the land.
This floating rock became the new
home of our people. In time, it came
to be known as Skyloft.

After a long and fierce battle, the
goddess, Hylia, succeeded in sealing
away Demise.

However, soon after the demon king
was imprisoned, it became clear that
the seal would not hold long against
his fearsome power.
Hylia had suffered grave injuries in
her battle with the demon king.
She knew that if he broke free again,
there would be no stopping him.

And if the demon king were to free
himself, it would mean the end of the
world for all beings of this land.

In order to put an end to the demon
king, Hylia devised two separate plans
and set them both into motion.

First, she created Fi. She made the
spirit that resides in your sword to
serve a single purpose: to assist her
chosen hero on his mission.
Her second plan...was to abandon her
divine form and transfer her soul to
the body of a mortal.

...She made this sacrifice, as you have
likely guessed, so that the supreme
power created by the old gods could
one day be used.
For while the supreme power of the
Triforce was created by gods, all of its
power can never be wielded by one.

Knowing this power was her last and
only hope, the goddess gave up her
divine powers and her immortal form.

Thing is, even after Link defeats Demise that does not quite kill him either, he still required sealing again in the Master Sword at the end of the game. It seems that imprisoning is the only way to defeat him, unless one has an island to drop on him again like in the present era in the game. There is nothing stating that Hylia needed to use the power of the triforce at that time, it was more of a what if scenario according to Zelda. However it needed to be protected from the reach of the demons who want it. So a plan was put into place to make sure that Demise cannot break his seal and attempt to take the triforce again later.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
There are lots of things in the Zelda universe that are stated to be gods/goddesses yet clearly aren't. It's simply a manner of speaking and refers (most of the time) to a being with great power. Whilst the Heirarchical system makes sense, it doesn't mean that is the case. Hylia may simply have been an individual who gained great power and eventually immortality and was thus worshipped and given the adoration that a goddess would.

It's the same kind of logic that makes us in the real world call talented bands the 'gods of rock' and things along those lines. Just to a much more exaggerated level

Well, most of what you just said is what I have been saying constantly in many threads; I grew bored of repeating myself. However, I stand 100% that there is a hierarchical system in the Zelda universe, as there is in many real-world cultures, and Hylia is simply a bit lower on the ladder (than the Golden Goddesses, whom seem to be on the level of absolute). The deities of WW, for example, would be under her...followed by Great Fairies, etc. Gods/desses or not, they are highly worshiped beings nonetheless. The fact that Zelda was made in Japan should also be taken into account as mentioned above.
 
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