Is There Really a Difference Between Demise and "Demise's Hate"?

[kroni]

The reveal at the end of SS has been making fans debate about just who or what Ganandorf really is. My initial impression was that Demise and Ganondorf were one in the same and any differences related solely to his change in physiology/memories. Demise would then be the "original Ganondorf" and basically share the same soul.

But critics will point out that Demise states that the incarnation is of his hatred, not his actual self. Is this really a relevant distinction? Neither Demise nor Ganondorf have ever shown a single redeeming quality. They seem to be pure evil, self serving and ruthless to the core. (I also think this is why Ganondorf has a special connection to the Triforce of Power, he has no inhibitions like empathy or remorse that would serve as weaknesses) Demise seems to be a being of pure hate, wanting nothing but control to abuse everything. Therefore, any incarnation of his hatred should pretty much be him in full.

 

[kroni]

Here is Demise's exact quote in English:

Extraordinary. You stand as a paragon of your kind, human. You fight like no human or demon I have ever known. Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again. Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!

Notice how at first he says his hate will be reborn again, and then says "I" will rise again. Therefore he is saying in his own words that he will live on as Ganondorf. He IS his hatred. I don't see how that can be interpreted as Demise giving his "hatred" to someone else.

Furthermore, by calling Ganondorf an "incarnation of his hate" it kind of rules out the possibility that Ganondorf was a normal person. To be an incarnation of something means that you are in essence that thing. Ganondorf could not have been some normal person before this because that would create a hybrid/possession, not an incarnation.

 

[Locke]

"an incarnation of my hatred" is literally his hatred in physical form. So here, Ganondorf is strongly (though implicitly) suggested to be Demise's hate. Demise's line "I will rise again" suggests that he is his hate. If this is an accurate translation, it suggests that in a way Ganondorf, being an incarnation of Demise's hate, is Demise himself. This is supported by Demise's Fi Caption:

This eternal being has conquered time
itself. It is the source of all monsters.


According to tales passed down through
generations, it appears differently in
each epoch and to each person who
lays eyes on it.

Again implicitly, Ganondorf is a different appearance that Demise takes on. Also of interest here (off-topic) is that he has already appeared several times before SS.

This is not to say that they're the exact same person. Demise is an eternal being who takes the form of individuals. These individuals may have different ambitions, etc. (be different people), but they are all driven by the same hate.

For further clarification, read up about Mikaboshi, which I think is very similar.

 

[Shadao]

Well, Demise is the Incarnation of Evil. When evil exist, Demise shall always exist. As for Ganondorf, I believe it in this way:

Ganondorf was born as a normal Gerudo with a demon spirit that inhabits his body. That demon spirit is mostly dormant in Ganondorf, much like how Hylia's spirit is to Zelda. When Zelda becomes the Goddess Hylia, she had to have her spirit purified to regain her sacred powers and memories. The same thing with Demise's spirit but instead of purifying, the dark spirit requires hatred and misery to gain full power. And Ganondorf lived in the Gerudo Desert, a place of misery and torment where death is the only comfort. It is only made worse when you considered that the green fields of Hyrule lies not too far from his place and that his entire race have a horrible reputation as theives. Ganondorf was envious of Hyrule and hated the Hylians that lived there. So the dark spirit inside Ganondorf grows in power like how in TP, Ganondorf regained his strength through the hatred from the Twili. That dark spirit reveals itself to the world in OoT, where Ganondorf's rage and hatred aganist Link and Zelda in the last battle turns him into a monster. Ganon is thus the Incarnation of Demise's Hatred as it is an embodiment of the evil inside of Ganondorf.

That's one way to look at. When it comes to incarnations in Zelda, it usually means that you have same spirit as your pre-incarnation. Which is why WW Link is consider a incarnation of the Chosen Hero even though he is not related in blood.

 

[thawk]

Demise is still alive. He is still in the sword. He can come back anytime by breaking the seal eventually or the seal being weakened over time just like Vaati and Ganon did. With this being possible, a connection between Ganon and Demise still can't be solidified until there is another story explaining it.

 

[LD-Link-16]

Demise is still alive. He is still in the sword. He can come back anytime by breaking the seal eventually or the seal being weakened over time just like Vaati and Ganon did. With this being possible, a connection between Ganon and Demise still can't be solidified until there is another story explaining it.

absolutely. Demise is never truly killed or destroyed, and because of this, unless there is a nother story that takes place between SS and OoT, there is no way Ganondorf is and incarnation od Demise himself. Hate and spirit are not the same thing. either this was a curse, or as TheBlueReptile stated, is just the fact that there will always be those with evil intentions and a hero to stop them. he knows that evil will never truly triumph in its quest, but it will always be there again and again. this is, in a way, a victory: bloodshed.

evils goal is not to rule or control anything, only to cause destruction, in this mantality evil will always win because it will cause bloodshed, while those with evil spirits (though unknowingly) will never succeed. Demise and his hatred are not the same thing, his hatred wanted to destroy and cause damage, while Demise himself wanted to rule. so the "incarnation" of his hatred (assumed to be Ganondorf) was meant to torture the "incarnation" of what he hated most.

most of that just kind of came out, suprised myself actualy.

 

[Yuuki]

Demise is still alive. He is still in the sword. He can come back anytime by breaking the seal eventually or the seal being weakened over time just like Vaati and Ganon did. With this being possible, a connection between Ganon and Demise still can't be solidified until there is another story explaining it.

Fi states at the end of Skyward Sword that the remnants of Demise are decaying within the Master Sword, so eventually the corporeal Demise does fade out of existence so to speak. However I do agree with The Blue Reptile's approach to this:

For me it wasn't a literal curse. Demise simply knew that as long as something as powerful as the Triforce existed there would always be evil striving to obtain it and a hero trying to stop them.

If I am not mistaking breaking down, as long as one can obtain the Triforce and use it to his or her will, there will always be a constant battle fuelled by the hate for the poser(s) of the Triforce and as long as it exists someone will ALWAYS WANT TO OBTAIN IT. For example; If you had this laser in geo-syncro orbit around Earth and at the touch of a button you could level a whole city in less then two minutes of pushing this button. There would be two groups more or less:
-> People who want to keep peace with this weapon (the ones who want to use it only in the dire circumstances if such a threat arises).
-> People who want to usurp the control of this weapon and use it to destroy everyone they despise.

Much like the Triforce you have the Goddess' chosen hero's and followers (such as Zelda and Link) who obtain the power of the Triforce/ Master Sword and only use it to keep peace in the land by eradicating people like Ganondorf who wants to use it only for one purpose, chaos.

As long as their is hate for one and another and a weapon like this exists someone somewhere will always want to abuse this weapon/relic and use it to destroy. To me it sounds like Demise already has knowledge of the future (given he is a powerful Daemon) and that really he foreshadows the events to come claiming it as a work of his own, which Link, Zelda, Fi and Impa all naively ignore.

 

[thawk]

You may have a point about the seal's 'acid effect' on the villians. Since it is a different sword than what Vaati and Ganon were sealed in, there could be different effects and they could have well been fully killed eventually (that is, if they don't show up in future games).

 

[Strangelove]

Here is Demise's exact quote in English:

Extraordinary. You stand as a paragon of your kind, human. You fight like no human or demon I have ever known. Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again. Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!

Notice how at first he says his hate will be reborn again, and then says "I" will rise again. Therefore he is saying in his own words that he will live on as Ganondorf. He IS his hatred. I don't see how that can be interpreted as Demise giving his "hatred" to someone else.

Furthermore, by calling Ganondorf an "incarnation of his hate" it kind of rules out the possibility that Ganondorf was a normal person. To be an incarnation of something means that you are in essence that thing. Ganondorf could not have been some normal person before this because that would create a hybrid/possession, not an incarnation.

Well, if he is, it it's taken literally, reincarnated as Ganondorf, that's interesting. Because Ganondorf, as that would go, would be the essence of hatred, but he doesn't seem to be so evil/hateful in all Zelda games.

 

[MissingLink]

Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise just like the Link in all of the games is the same as the other Links

 

[Blue Window]

Since Demise says that a new incarnation of his hatred will always appear, it seems to me that Ganondorf (and all the other big lords of evil) are not Demise reborn, but a new incarnation of evil itself. I doubt that they share any greater connection than that they are all evil. The big question is what Demise actually is: It seems, according to Fi, that the Demise in SS is not the "true form" of Demise, but rather one form; it seems to me that Demise/Ganondorf are all incarnations of "evil" itself.

/Blue Window

 

[Hero_in_Green]

What I found unique about Demise was the way he looked to Link. It was kind of a foreshadowing to Ganondorf. He looked similarly to Ganondorf except 20X more evil. Red flaming hair, and his face looked like a Gerudo face albeit more demon like. So since Demise appears differently to every person that sees him, its kind of a paradoxical foreshadowing of the battles the Hero will have with Ganondorf in the future

 

[kroni]

Since Demise says that a new incarnation of his hatred will always appear, it seems to me that Ganondorf (and all the other big lords of evil) are not Demise reborn, but a new incarnation of evil itself. I doubt that they share any greater connection than that they are all evil. The big question is what Demise actually is: It seems, according to Fi, that the Demise in SS is not the "true form" of Demise, but rather one form; it seems to me that Demise/Ganondorf are all incarnations of "evil" itself.

/Blue Window

But see, if he was really just talking about some new generation of evil, why would he call it his reincarnation? It would have been more appropriate to write "The evil that created my hatred will be reincarnated" not "my hatred will be reincarnated".

 

[Blue Window]

To kroni

Well, we don't know how much Demise speaks in metaphors. Also, Fi says that "Demise looks different to each age" or something similar, indicating that Demise is not the original incarnation to begin with. Moreover, Demise almost contradicts himself when he first says: "I will rise again" and later says "An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind", for he can not rise again if it is an incarnation of himself that comes back. Therefore, it seems more logical to me that both Demise and Ganondorf are incarnations of the same "hatred". It is also possible that Ganonodrf is a re-incarnation of Demise's hatred, similar to how Link is re-incarnated of the Hero's spirit, rather than being Demsie reborn.

/Blue Window