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General Zelda Is the Legend of Zelda Losing Steam?

JuicieJ

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But, if I were to compare the Zelda series to itself then Zelda is its own worst enemy. ZeldaU is going to make it or break it for me. Nintendo and Zelda are among the last video game franchise I am holding out on. If ZeldaU fails to impress then I'm done.

You're acting as if Zelda is a shell of its former self. Quite honestly the only thing it's lost exploration. It's maintained a pretty consistent level of combat and puzzle-solving with most releases, especially Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword. SS also did nothing but improve on modern Zelda's conventions by nailing elements other modern titles failed to, bringing back some classic elements, introducing new ideas, and taking steps in the right direction towards bringing back classic elements it didn't come full circle on.

Needless to say, I'm lost as to what you mean by "fails to impress". Even though Zelda has devolved from what it was at its peak, it's still been consistently great as a whole and has really stepped its game up as of late. Hell, it's even better than before in a few areas. Just a bit confusing to me.
 
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DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
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Oct 28, 2012
The fact of the matter is, every Zelda game is so similar to the previous one nowadays that the general public just isn't interested in them.

Where do you get that idea? After OoT, in terms of originality, this is where the next 4 console games stand.

MM>tWW>SS>TP

And this is where they stand in terms of sales

TP>tWW>SS>MM

If anything, they're trying to make the games way too original solely for the sake of originality and nothing else. Nintendo needs to start building off their previous achievements like they did in TP rather than add new concepts for the sake of making a game different and nothing else.

Zelda is doing fine. 3.6 million is still very good. Better than the vast majority of games. Better than WW.

Actually...tWW had 4m sales. Although you can say that its age has an advantage....

I don't think Zelda is to blame. I think it's just the general public's rejection of the Wii. The Wii has so many great games from some of nintendo's best franchises. Critics and loyalists love the console, but the public is too obsessed with the next COD, Halo, Batman, Elder Scrolls, and whatever cheap COD ripoffs are out there. Some of these games have quality. but they can't beat the amazing nintendo franchises. I guess the public has abandoned nintendo, and Zelda has to pay the price. I only hope the Wii u can win back some of the lost boom. Then again, the Play Station outsold the N64, but the N64 is considered the vastly superior console by anyone I've met. I guess Zelda will continue to thrive despite not selling as well as other games on other consoles. We love it, and millions will continue to enjoy it for years to come.

...The Wii dominated the market last I checked....
 
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Uhhh, I don't really you can say Zelda has peaked yet, because it isn't over; there's still more to come. Saying the Legend of Zelda has peaked already is like saying a person is a legend before he/she is dead. Anyways, I don't even think the next two games, no matter how awful they will/can be, will be decisive for Nintendo. Even though there was only one Zelda before Zelda 2, fans still had faith in Zelda. Also, the series isn't any less "popular", there's just a more diverse group of gamers, and more gamers in general. So, I think Zelda will be fine, unless of course the next 4 games are bad, then we can say goodbye.

I do hope N64 wasn't Zelda's peak; I always hope for a game to topple OoT off its throne as the biggest Zelda game with every release. None of the have gotten even close so far, and after I-don't-know-how-many tries I'm beginning to lose hope, but not all of it...I'm still crossing my fingers for ZeldaU and even Zelda3DS.

Really the only thing I can compare the Zelda series to is itself. Comparing Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess and Windwaker to the likes of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and A Link to the Past yes I can say the series has experienced a bit of a decline. Compared to other long running video game franchises (especially one as old as it is) well... there is no comparison. Zelda is still leagues ahead of the likes of pretty much every PS3/360 franchise this gen and long running franchises such as Tomb Raider in terms of quality (largely considering the quality of such franchises tends to drop drastically at part 2.)

Good point, Castle. It's easy to get pessimistic sometimes, especially for those of us who were disappointed with the 3 most recent titles, but for such a long-running series Zelda is doing pretty mightyfine. Nintendo doesn't even pay attention to Donkey Kong and Kirby anymore, Final Fantasy, while continuing to do well in sales, is going down in quality, and, while I don't play Halo, some of my gamer friends told me it wasn't a thing anymore. The franchises that are doing well tend to be more recent and fresh, but I doubt any of them could last 26 years. Even if Zelda goes bankrupt after ZeldaU (which is next to impossible) the series has a lot to be proud of.
 
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EDIT: What Zelda is doing now may make great games, but it's stale as far as consumers are concerned. Zelda needs to go beyond its unnatural borders and create -- not experiment -- system-selling, copy-selling entries. Nintendo COULD but they're conservative.



Were those games fantastic according to sales? Or were they just great games?

Thank you, that's exactly how I feel. Nintendo does too much experimenting in the wrong places-- Let's change the art style! Make it look like an impressionistic painting! Let's add motion controls! Those are bold moves, but they're not appealing to the gaming community. I used to really like how Nintendo had a mind of their own, they ignored the fans' clamor for an intense Zelda game and instead went with cute cartoon graphics with WW--I think that was, in the long run, a good move for Zelda's evolution, but all this experimentation has cost it a lot of popularity, a lot of sales...how much longer can they stand losing all the sales? When will they give in and try to appeal to the broader audience? While all that sounds kind of bad (money>>creativity!!) I think it's time for Zelda to give in to peer pressure and make the kind of game that would catch the typical gamers' attention while staying true to the formula. It can be done very easily, Nintendo's just stubborn about it.
 

JuicieJ

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I don't understand what the big deal is about Zelda staying the same. Certainly it shouldn't be like CoD and be basically the exact same game every time, but there's a reason people like Zelda so much, and it's because it does what it does well.

Beyond that... can you honestly say other game series innovate more than Zelda does? Seriously, how many game series don't reuse the same ideas each release with merely some minor alterations here and there. Now ask yourself this. What has happened to series that change what they are? The fanbase becomes alienated. Paper Mario is a pretty big example of this.

There's nothing wrong with Zelda keeping the formula it has. The core structure doesn't need changing. The little ideas inside the core structure simply need to be refined with each release. If some new ideas come along with that, great. That's fantastic. But it's not a freaking necessity, people.
 

Castle

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You're acting as if Zelda is a shell of its former self.

Hm... I might stop just short of saying that.

Quite honestly the only thing it's lost exploration.

And this is the concept, the basis, the premise, the genesis if you will of the entire Zelda series dating back to the very first Legend of Zelda title. Miyamoto's childhood adventures in the wilderness around his home is what inspired his idea for The Legend of Zelda. Exploration is what fans want. Or it's what I want anyway because it's what Zelda was originally all about and I expect Zelda to be what it is. Otherwise might as well be a whole different series.

Even though Zelda has devolved from what it was at its peak, it's still been consistently great as a whole and has really stepped its game up as of late.

Castle said:
Zelda is still leagues ahead of the likes of pretty much every PS3/360 franchise this gen and long running franchises such as Tomb Raider in terms of quality

But I'm not comparing it to this gens franchises or other long running franchises. I am comparing Zelda to itself and by doing so I am treating it with tremendous respect and lifting it higher than other video game franchise. My expectations are different for Zelda. Which is to say they are much much higher.

As for having "really stepped up its game as of late" I'm glad you think so but I don't. That happens sometimes.

JuicieJ said:
Needless to say, I'm lost as to what you mean by "fails to impress".

Simple. If ZeldaU doesn't impress me then I'm not playing it. If it isn't to my liking then I'm not going to play it and I'm going to stop paying attention to Nintendo and the Zelda series. If ZeldaU doesn't meet my expectations then I'm not going to be interested in it. This isn't a slight against Nintendo or the Zelda series, it's only fair. I am not going to engage in a leisure activity that I do not enjoy. Nintendo is a provider of entertainment. If I am not entertained then I am in no ways obliged to participate.

And this isn't unique to Nintendo or Zelda either. I have already given up on everything else having to do with video games. Nintendo still shows potential to improve, however. But if they don't demonstrate any improvement then I don't need to buy from them anymore. ZeldaU is their last chance to impress me.

But Nintendo is talking about "non-linear dungeon progression" in ZeldaU and this leads me to believe they've got the right idea... but Nintendo so often lacks solid follow through. Needless to say I am anxious to see what Nintendo provides and hoping they blow my mind like I wouldn't believe.
 
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I don't think Zelda is to blame. I think it's just the general public's rejection of the Wii. The Wii has so many great games from some of nintendo's best franchises. Critics and loyalists love the console, but the public is too obsessed with the next COD, Halo, Batman, Elder Scrolls, and whatever cheap COD ripoffs are out there. Some of these games have quality. but they can't beat the amazing nintendo franchises. I guess the public has abandoned nintendo, and Zelda has to pay the price. I only hope the Wii u can win back some of the lost boom. Then again, the Play Station outsold the N64, but the N64 is considered the vastly superior console by anyone I've met. I guess Zelda will continue to thrive despite not selling as well as other games on other consoles. We love it, and millions will continue to enjoy it for years to come.

Great point. I think if Nintendo had just given the Wii the same graphics capabilities (HD) as xbox360 and ps3, things would've been VERY different. For one thing, people would have the option of playing 3rd party games like COD on the Wii, and both TP and SS probably would've had goregous, attention-grabbing HD graphics (regardless of the art direction). I doubt I would be starting this thread if it were for that. What I don't understand is why Nintendo seemingly purposefully made the Wii's graphics worse. I know they wanted to appeal to the soft-core audience, which they did for about a month, but why does that mean they had to make a less capable system? Did the just get lazy? Anyways, I think it was a bad move on Nintendo's part...they got a ton of Wii console sales, but the casuals just let their Wiis collect dust, and besides they lost the more loyal and, in the long run, more lucrative hardcore gaming community.
 

JuicieJ

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And this is the concept, the basis, the premise, the genesis if you will of the entire Zelda series dating back to the very first Legend of Zelda title. Miyamoto's childhood adventures in the wilderness around his home is what inspired his idea for The Legend of Zelda. Exploration is what fans want. Or it's what I want anyway because it's what Zelda was originally all about and I expect Zelda to be what it is. Otherwise might as well be a whole different series.


No, exploration is merely a PART of Zelda. It's something that should be in the series, yes, but it's not the most important thing the series needs to have. There are plenty of other elements that are much more important to the overall quality of a Zelda game, such as combat and puzzle-solving. Never understood why some people treat exploration as if it's THE defining feature of the series, because it's not. It's just ONE OF them.

But I'm not comparing it to this gens franchises or other long running franchises. I am comparing Zelda to itself and by doing so I am treating it with tremendous respect and lifting it higher than other video game franchise. My expectations are different for Zelda. Which is to say they are much much higher.

In other words... exactly the same as me.

Simple. If ZeldaU doesn't impress me then I'm not playing it.

You implied that you were giving up on the SERIES if it didn't impress you. Not playing a game anymore and not playing a series anymore are two completely different things.
 
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Being a Zelda fan I will stay loyal to the end or at least as loyal as one can be to a video game series, but I think Zelda will do just fine so long as it returns to its roots a bit more than it has, I loved SS but I want something more like OoT, ALttP, MM and TP but built with todays superior technology with more exploration than OoT or SS and a lot more complex character interactions maybe even a reward and consequence system which would add more replay value. In order for Zelda to reclaim its place near the top of gaming it will need elements both old and new, an awesome collision of the past and present and from the flames comes the next Zelda legend.
 

DarkestLink

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I never understood the big deal with exploration. I think it's highly overrated, hasn't been seen since OoT, and was easily one of the worst aspects of the older games. OoT dimming it down was a huge step up IMO.
 
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Satsy

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Even if the series could be said to be 'losing steam', it is in no way heading for obscurity. So long as it's a franchise still getting releases, re-releases and ports and still selling in the millions, then obscure is not in the near future.

That said I also wouldn't say OoT was the 'peak'. It definitely set a new standard, but that's not the same thing. The start of Link's journeys into 3D is not where everything was at its most peachy, only to go downhill from there. Within the series there are better titles, even if the critics of the sales numbers don't agree. That which led to OoT beating out SMB3 as 'most sold release title' I could argue wasn't all down to the game itself, what with the long development cycle that had followed it's announcement before the N64's release. Was SMB3 the pinnacle of gaming until OoT's release? Not really. The SNES had a lot of really good titles, as did Sega's competing console(s) to that point.

Not all the games in this series are going to be everyone's cup of tea. For instance, JuiceJ has been selling Spirit Tracks rather highly, and I don't care for it. The 'exploration' is a literal railroad with painfully low-res backgrounds (not easy on the eyes, gotta say), some absolutely aggravating minigames (bunnies) and one of the more awkward instruments that requires use up to and including the last battle (which frankly took me well out of the moment). Take with all-touch-screen controls and I'm not gonna sell it anywhere near as high as some seem to. But, that's just me! I'm sure there are games on my list that wouldn't be so high on others (MC). So each person's view on the 'peak' will be different, assuming everyone's thought the peak has actually happened yet. Some may not. Some may think we've just hit it with SS.

Ultimately I don't think we've hit the peak yet. It's easy to think it's all going downhill if one looks at the communities, but I think that's a temporary downer. After all, the HH isn't answering the questions people hoped, still proclaims the timeline not everyone agrees with, and the first remake hitting WiiU is WW, and not MM. This is naturally disappointing, but not a reason to believe the whole series is going up in smoke, nor that its best was 15 years ago. While that may not seem polite, I mean nothing bad by it. It's not a bad thing to be upset about something, especially something that looked like it'd make sense.
 

Deeds

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How did I know that a thread with such a controversial subject, like this, would have so many posts in such a short time.

I don't think that it's losing steam at all. In my opinion, Skyward Sword was a fantastic game and it created memories that have a nostalgic effect. That is nearly impossible for a game to do that when it's only been out for 1 year. It also tells me that it still had the charm that Ocarina had, that's a clear indicator that it isn't losing steam.
 

Random Person

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If you had asked this question before SS came out, I would have a completely different answer. I didn't feel that the games were losing steam, but actually gaining them. The stories, while still cliche, were still deep and had meaningful moments. The continuity, while still atrocious, seemed to be slowly coming together. The gameplay, while still similar, felt unique and/or evolved in each game that occurred. My problem is with SS. I don't think it's really fair to say an entire series is losing steam because of one game, but nevertheless it's how I feel: probably because SS is the newest installment which in most entertainments people have an expectation of it to put out the best of what the series has to offer, instead of the worst. (Most people thought the Dark Knight Rises would be awesome just because the Dark Knight was)

I don't really need another OoT (though one would be nice) I just need another MM or TP. The Zelda formula does indeed need change, but it doesn't have to change everywhere. Some areas can and should stay the same. I actually don't mind repeating the whole "saving the princess" process, but Nintendo's gotta find ways to step it up. One big gripe I have with SS (among many) is that it lacks in ingenuity. Sure what we did was new, but it was somewhat expected. And if it wasn't expected, it still wasn't too exciting. The most fun I had in that game was fighting the final form of Ghirahim because I could mix up what little sword techniques I had. MM and TP on the otherhand are pretty much the kings of ingenuity and creativity. We could do what we wanted, how we wanted, some other word we wanted. Sure, I'll take your cliche saving princess plot. Sure, I'll play as a green skirted, sword wielding hero again. Just give me a reason to say "this game really drove me in because..." OoT made me feel adventurous, MM made me feel important, WW made me feel free, TP made me feel epic... all feelings I wouldn't mind seeing return, but not in the exact same way.

Yes I feel the Zelda series is losing steam, but it can be turned around easily.
 

Ronin

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Zelda might have its ups and downs throughout its nearly 27 years lifetime, but I feel that it's still going strong. Zelda U is backed up with scads of potential new features―thanks to its father-console, the Wii U, and the control device, the GamePad―so that we will doubtlessly see gaming redefined in the forthcoming years...again. Plus, it still has plenty of supporters who consistently buy the games, if only to try them out. Therefore Nintendo ought not fret over monetary burdens for quite some time. In the meantime, fans pass the time with the games they already own by immersing themselves into Zelda's worlds over and over.

Looking at the bigger picture, the prospect of the Legend of Zelda continuing is far from bleak. It'll last a very, very long time to come; hopefully long enough to see another 25 anniversary period.

No, exploration is merely a PART of Zelda. It's something that should be in the series, yes, but it's not the most important thing the series needs to have. There are plenty of other elements that are much more important to the overall quality of a Zelda game, such as combat and puzzle-solving. Never understood why some people treat exploration as if it's THE defining feature of the series, because it's not. It's just ONE OF them.

Going along with this thought, exploration is not the defining feature of the series. Rather, it's one of many magnitudes which are crucial to the formula and, by far more importantly, the overall experience. While combat and puzzle-solving have their respective roles, exploration of late has felt egregiously depleted. Sure, Skyward Sword brought back some of that experience and yada-yada; however its overworld (beneath the Sky...) didn't feel as natural as, say, OoT's or MM's in the past. In those there was an exceptional balance of combat, puzzles, and exploration―all amalgamated into a pristine experience. But in order for that experience to once again rise today, the formula needs to regress back to its former roots instead of experimenting with contemporary routes.

Other than this, putting all technicalities aside, the "defining feature" of any game is a subjective preference.
 

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