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General Zelda Instead of Giving Hints to Puzzles, the Puzzle Should Have Been Removed or Replaced

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
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You know we all can just avoid looking up hints to puzzles, its not like we all have to buy a guidebook, or we all have to use the Sheikah stone from SS, we can just avoid looking for hints. I guess that's what this is about... I'm to lazy to go read back.

Yeah, that's the jist of the conversation right now, though I don't know if that was the intention of this thread. Some believe that, no matter how revealing the hint, if it's optional it doesn't diminish the game, while others believe that by simply having a hint like that, optional or not, it diminishes the value of winning.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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Yeah, that's the jist of the conversation right now, though I don't know if that was the intention of this thread. Some believe that, no matter how revealing the hint, if it's optional it doesn't diminish the game, while others believe that by simply having a hint like that, optional or not, it diminishes the value of winning.

Hm, yeah cool, thanks dude...
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
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Hey, that's exactly what I'm saying! You don't have to use them, I don't have to use them, and if your brother does then why ever not? How does that affect the game for you or me?

b/c it just bothers me that you and I were able to go through the game by using our brains,while my little brother and other kids have the option to not think for themselves,then they won't have the same sense of accomplishment we had for overcoming the challenges,b/c they were just shown what to do
 

Ocarina_Player

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b/c it just bothers me that you and I were able to go through the game by using our brains,while my little brother and other kids have the option to not think for themselves,then they won't have the same sense of accomplishment we had for overcoming the challenges,b/c they were just shown what to do

Your little brother? How old is he? And it seems to me it's not the game's fault your brother chose the easy way. If you want him to play a hard game give him MM, that'll melt his brain a bit.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
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Your little brother? How old is he? And it seems to me it's not the game's fault your brother chose the easy way. If you want him to play a hard game give him MM, that'll melt his brain a bit.

well they do really tempt you into checking out what's in there by making it glow pwetty colours and placing it in areas where it's really hard to miss
and he's 8,but even for his age....he's a moron

also i seriously doubt he can go through an hour of majoras mask before declaring it as a sucky game and never returning to it again
 

Ocarina_Player

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He's EIGHT!?!? For Chrissakes give the kid a break! That is exactly what the stone is there for, so younger kids can play the game and not have to annoy their older siblings to walk them through it. And dumb or not, plenty of those puzzles were beyond the skills of the average eight year old. I think you're being a little harsh.

And it's still stuffed in one little corner of skyloft right by the training hall. Not out in your face all the time, geez.
 

Random Person

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What's this argument about?

The opening thread is asking whether or not a hint being too easy is a sign that the puzzle itself should be removed. The current argument among most is regarding the gossip stones in SS, debating whether they are a hindrance to the game or not. Some say they degrade the value of winning, while others feel they don't matter so long as they're optional and/or not obnoxious.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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He's EIGHT!?!? For Chrissakes give the kid a break! That is exactly what the stone is there for, so younger kids can play the game and not have to annoy their older siblings to walk them through it. And dumb or not, plenty of those puzzles were beyond the skills of the average eight year old. I think you're being a little harsh.



And it's still stuffed in one little corner of skyloft right by the training hall. Not out in your face all the time, geez.

Lol, yep Ocarina_player is right markasscop, some of the puzzles were a little hard probably for eight year olds, sure the gossip stone shone pretty colors but it wasn't out in the open it was tucked in the corn or of the knight acadamy the only other time you see it some were else is during the middle of the game when your getting the parts of the song of the hero, it appears near eldin volcano, I don't call that sticking it in your face.
 

Random Person

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Lol, yep Ocarina_player is right markasscop, some of the puzzles were a little hard probably for eight year olds, sure the gossip stone shone pretty colors but it wasn't out in the open it was tucked in the corn or of the knight acadamy the only other time you see it some were else is during the middle of the game when your getting the parts of the song of the hero, it appears near eldin volcano, I don't call that sticking it in your face.

I think the point is being missed of what markasscop is saying. We all pretty much get the gist that Gossip Stones are optional and not really in the players face. I feel that most don't think that matters, so continually bringing it up isn't going to register. Until you can convince one that hints like the gossip stones being in the game do not diminish the value of winning, this will just keep going full circle. I can tell you that I, Personally, look back on games I've beaten and I feel proud, but not with SS because if I wanted to, there was a Gossip Stone just waiting to tell me the answer. Despite the fact that I didn't use it, I could've, and that alone makes winning less valuable. In most "challenging" games, there aren't easily accessible tools that do so much for the player.

Convince people who feel this way that a hint that gives you an answer does not diminish a game's victory, and maybe this conversation can move forward. Again, do not mention that it is optional unless your goal is to simply state your side, not to convince. That argument, no matter how valid it is to your point, does not matter to people who feel this way.
 

JuicieJ

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Despite the fact that I didn't use it, I could've, and that alone makes winning less valuable. In most "challenging" games, there aren't easily accessible tools that do so much for the player.

I'm sorry, but this mindset seriously hurts my brain. You didn't do something, so it has no effect on you whatsoever -- objectively so -- ...yet you still feel insulted. I ask once again, does this mean you're insulted by the existence of official & online walkthroughs? Because they're literally the exact same thing, just in a different format.
 

Ocarina_Player

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Random, that makes no sense whatsoever. You know those hints weren't for you, you concede that they are totally optional and out of the way, and yet you cannot explain how they devalue the challenge of the game.

You just don't like them. Fine, nobody said you had to, but logically your argument makes no sense.
 

Random Person

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Random, that makes no sense whatsoever. You know those hints weren't for you, you concede that they are totally optional and out of the way, and yet you cannot explain how they devalue the challenge of the game.

You just don't like them. Fine, nobody said you had to, but logically your argument makes no sense.

Yeah... I don't mind debating, in fact I love it, but if you're going to devalue what I have to say, then I've completely lost enjoyment from this.
 

Ocarina_Player

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You can't possibly enjoy debating if you don't like it when people disagree with you. All I said was that your stance makes no sense, you are free to clarify.

Now, how does an optional, unobtrusive hint system devalue the challenge of SS and OoT3D?
 

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