Idea for a Wii(U)/3DS Zelda Game

[PatheticBarrel]

*First off, wasn't quite sure if this belonged here. If not please direct and I'll fix it.*

Hopping around on the forums the last few days, I've been noticing a lot of talk about what people would really like to see in a Zelda game. Having just finished MM, quite a few points really struck home, but also being a big fan of the sheer size of TP, SS, and AoL(for the time) a few others popped out too. Being an idealist/welcome mat, I tend to try to find ways to make people happy, usually by seeing everyones wants:

• More focus on NPC's
• Immersive EXPLORATION
• Less tedious travel/better fast travel
• A more personified Link
• Creative combat
• The return of Magic
• A less jarring Main/Side-quest transition

Sticking each part into separate spoilers to make this more manageable.

Spoiler

For this, I'm going to start from the top. All in all, MM did a great job of bringing personality and diversity to Termina, as opposed to OoT's somewhat... dead Hyrule. Sure, the big characters always get good dialogue (Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru have some great lines), but the residents of Termina were almost lifelike for the time. This can become really apparent when you note the similarities between the builders apprentice and the Oceanside Spider House "buyer". Even today, NPC's in TP and SS don't really have any 'growth' over the game, with the exception of Peatrice and Agitha (kind of). Of course, having actual time transitions helped (most of TP and SS's NPC's only have a day or night location).

A lot of players, myself included, love looking in every nook and cranny for secrets (how many of us died trying to find anything in TP's Forest Temple boss rooms pond?). I think, however, that a good number of us would also love a reason for more general exploration, which I think can come into play post-SS (a almost unknown land needs to be properly mapped) and using something similar to WW (haven't played that, so not sure how that worked), but putting in a nice reward system or making it a valuable side quest.

Travel has always been a sticking point in the Zelda series, especially in the 3D games. This was largely fixed between OoT and MM by making the world more compact and making the central hub (Hyrule Field/Clock Town) more integral to the gameplay. By WW though, we were back to a large 'travel' area, with a lot of space between locations.This was repeated in TP and SS, though TP gave us Midna and warping. Basically, I believe that if you feel that players will 'want' (different than need, which is integral to the character of Midna) to warp, you've done something wrong with your 'between' area. I still think warping in TP felt overdone, especially with how often you had to fight those Shadow Beasts.

A recent complaint has been that Link has been too much of a blank slate in the games of late, with very little defining personality. Aside from sleepy-ness and an outstanding loyalty to his friends, Link lacks anything to make him stand out from the amnesiacs and 'dimensional traveler' characters that a good number of players would like to be rid of. Link being asleep at the beginning of a game has become a staple, but making it more apparent throughout the game would make him a more endearing character. However, seeing Link from another perspective can also give him more personality.

The developers have tried to make combat less droll, and I think motion controls can really lead in that noble direction. However, (going back to MM again) having varying styles of combat has been enjoyable in the past. Each of the different transformations gave a new style to combat, and wolf Links more staccato style really made you have to time your strikes. I know WW also made stealth a bit more useful than it had been previously. All of these could come together for a more exciting fighting experience.

Apparently, we all like magic, but I personally think that Link isn't a very good character to delve into that with. He's a combatant, and even his small use of magic abilities is very clunky, where the series try's to make it look very graceful in the hands of other characters.

This is really my only pet-peeve with the series. Someone is always telling you how important it is that you take care of the current 'dire event', but there is rarely any repercussions for going off to the shooting gallery. I don't want a time limit being put on me throughout the game, but maybe having a situation be slightly harder, or being reprimanded by a character if you go off to do a mini-game would be compelling for the characters development, but wouldn't jar too harshly with most players approach to the games.

Now, I then try to see how best to put these thoughts together:

Spoiler

One thing that was severely underused with both the GCN and Wii was their respective link ups with handhelds. The GCN's were very gimmicky, while the Wii's have been next to nonexistent. With the coming of the Wii U, this can be better used in a Zelda game that would want to fix the above issues, without totally changing the layout of the game. Now, this is going to be very strange for a game idea in general, but it will hit on some great aspects of the series, while still giving players a new way of seeing things. First off, this would not be a 'link-up-and-get-a-neat-gimmick', but rather two, interconnected games, that would require a link up for one of them to advance. I'm talking about having your 3DS game require you to beat each 'level' of the Wii U game to continue advancing, but being able to play the Wii U game without having to link up. By doing this, many old ideas can be implemented in a new way.

First, my idea involves giving Link a playable 'sidekick' for the 3DS game, who is customizable in multiple aspects (Gender, clothing, combat style, etc.), but will be able to be used or not used based on the players wants. This means a 3DS is not necessary to complete the game. More or less, this part is for exploring both the world, and the characters more fully. For me, this gives an engrossing experience that can be enjoyed away from home, a deep, character driven game, within the frame of the more story driven main game.

Next, this allows for the 'sidekick' to be useful to the main game. Perhaps, within the main game, the sidekick stays in the central hub, and Link can visit to get extra items, rupees, or secret locations that the player found while playing as the sidekick. The player could mark special areas on the maps, or even auto-share any hints the sidekick may have learned that Link wouldn't have been able to find/hear. By requiring that Link advance for the sidekick to advance, it means that the main game doesn't really have an endgame situation, where you're just trying to find everything, but that the side game can pick that up by having several small quests, like helping the locales. This wouldn't take sidequests from the main game though. Remember, I wanted the main game to not require the side game. Rather, the side game would be it's own story, running alongside and frequently crossing with the main story, and giving more insight to Hyrule, it inhabitants, and the protagonist.

Third, this side game would allow for growth in the way of combat. The sidekick would be able to focus more on a single style than Link normally does, even going so far as to have the character be different races (totally just throwing that out there, for the fun). Thus, combat can be fresh between games, and less stagnant overall. This also brings in more Role-Playing aspects (perhaps Hylians are adept at magic than Gorons, but Gorons get access to some sweet transportation, while a Hyrulian [rounded ear, being the best differentiator] might be more well rounded) that would really freshen up the series.

Fourth, cosplaying within the community needs some fresh ideas, and being able to customize your own character makes that more of a likely idea.

On the subject of transportation, I really have no solid ideas, except to make exploring or just traveling more rewarding both for the player, and Link.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and please, be honest with any criticism of the ideas themselves.

 

[rock]

*First off, wasn't quite sure if this belonged here. If not please direct and I'll fix it.*

Hopping around on the forums the last few days, I've been noticing a lot of talk about what people would really like to see in a Zelda game. Having just finished MM, quite a few points really struck home, but also being a big fan of the sheer size of TP, SS, and AoL(for the time) a few others popped out too. Being an idealist/welcome mat, I tend to try to find ways to make people happy, usually by seeing everyones wants:

• More focus on NPC's
• Immersive EXPLORATION
• Less tedious travel/better fast travel
• A more personified Link
• Creative combat
• The return of Magic
• A less jarring Main/Side-quest transition

Sticking each part into separate spoilers to make this more manageable.

Spoiler

For this, I'm going to start from the top. All in all, MM did a great job of bringing personality and diversity to Termina, as opposed to OoT's somewhat... dead Hyrule. Sure, the big characters always get good dialogue (Darunia, Ruto, and Nabooru have some great lines), but the residents of Termina were almost lifelike for the time. This can become really apparent when you note the similarities between the builders apprentice and the Oceanside Spider House "buyer". Even today, NPC's in TP and SS don't really have any 'growth' over the game, with the exception of Peatrice and Agitha (kind of). Of course, having actual time transitions helped (most of TP and SS's NPC's only have a day or night location).

A lot of players, myself included, love looking in every nook and cranny for secrets (how many of us died trying to find anything in TP's Forest Temple boss rooms pond?). I think, however, that a good number of us would also love a reason for more general exploration, which I think can come into play post-SS (a almost unknown land needs to be properly mapped) and using something similar to WW (haven't played that, so not sure how that worked), but putting in a nice reward system or making it a valuable side quest.

Travel has always been a sticking point in the Zelda series, especially in the 3D games. This was largely fixed between OoT and MM by making the world more compact and making the central hub (Hyrule Field/Clock Town) more integral to the gameplay. By WW though, we were back to a large 'travel' area, with a lot of space between locations.This was repeated in TP and SS, though TP gave us Midna and warping. Basically, I believe that if you feel that players will 'want' (different than need, which is integral to the character of Midna) to warp, you've done something wrong with your 'between' area. I still think warping in TP felt overdone, especially with how often you had to fight those Shadow Beasts.

A recent complaint has been that Link has been too much of a blank slate in the games of late, with very little defining personality. Aside from sleepy-ness and an outstanding loyalty to his friends, Link lacks anything to make him stand out from the amnesiacs and 'dimensional traveler' characters that a good number of players would like to be rid of. Link being asleep at the beginning of a game has become a staple, but making it more apparent throughout the game would make him a more endearing character. However, seeing Link from another perspective can also give him more personality.

The developers have tried to make combat less droll, and I think motion controls can really lead in that noble direction. However, (going back to MM again) having varying styles of combat has been enjoyable in the past. Each of the different transformations gave a new style to combat, and wolf Links more staccato style really made you have to time your strikes. I know WW also made stealth a bit more useful than it had been previously. All of these could come together for a more exciting fighting experience.

Apparently, we all like magic, but I personally think that Link isn't a very good character to delve into that with. He's a combatant, and even his small use of magic abilities is very clunky, where the series try's to make it look very graceful in the hands of other characters.

This is really my only pet-peeve with the series. Someone is always telling you how important it is that you take care of the current 'dire event', but there is rarely any repercussions for going off to the shooting gallery. I don't want a time limit being put on me throughout the game, but maybe having a situation be slightly harder, or being reprimanded by a character if you go off to do a mini-game would be compelling for the characters development, but wouldn't jar too harshly with most players approach to the games.

Now, I then try to see how best to put these thoughts together:

Spoiler

One thing that was severely underused with both the GCN and Wii was their respective link ups with handhelds. The GCN's were very gimmicky, while the Wii's have been next to nonexistent. With the coming of the Wii U, this can be better used in a Zelda game that would want to fix the above issues, without totally changing the layout of the game. Now, this is going to be very strange for a game idea in general, but it will hit on some great aspects of the series, while still giving players a new way of seeing things. First off, this would not be a 'link-up-and-get-a-neat-gimmick', but rather two, interconnected games, that would require a link up for one of them to advance. I'm talking about having your 3DS game require you to beat each 'level' of the Wii U game to continue advancing, but being able to play the Wii U game without having to link up. By doing this, many old ideas can be implemented in a new way.

First, my idea involves giving Link a playable 'sidekick' for the 3DS game, who is customizable in multiple aspects (Gender, clothing, combat style, etc.), but will be able to be used or not used based on the players wants. This means a 3DS is not necessary to complete the game. More or less, this part is for exploring both the world, and the characters more fully. For me, this gives an engrossing experience that can be enjoyed away from home, a deep, character driven game, within the frame of the more story driven main game.

Next, this allows for the 'sidekick' to be useful to the main game. Perhaps, within the main game, the sidekick stays in the central hub, and Link can visit to get extra items, rupees, or secret locations that the player found while playing as the sidekick. The player could mark special areas on the maps, or even auto-share any hints the sidekick may have learned that Link wouldn't have been able to find/hear. By requiring that Link advance for the sidekick to advance, it means that the main game doesn't really have an endgame situation, where you're just trying to find everything, but that the side game can pick that up by having several small quests, like helping the locales. This wouldn't take sidequests from the main game though. Remember, I wanted the main game to not require the side game. Rather, the side game would be it's own story, running alongside and frequently crossing with the main story, and giving more insight to Hyrule, it inhabitants, and the protagonist.

Third, this side game would allow for growth in the way of combat. The sidekick would be able to focus more on a single style than Link normally does, even going so far as to have the character be different races (totally just throwing that out there, for the fun). Thus, combat can be fresh between games, and less stagnant overall. This also brings in more Role-Playing aspects (perhaps Hylians are adept at magic than Gorons, but Gorons get access to some sweet transportation, while a Hyrulian [rounded ear, being the best differentiator] might be more well rounded) that would really freshen up the series.

Fourth, cosplaying within the community needs some fresh ideas, and being able to customize your own character makes that more of a likely idea.

On the subject of transportation, I really have no solid ideas, except to make exploring or just traveling more rewarding both for the player, and Link.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and please, be honest with any criticism of the ideas themselves.

So I read through your evaluation of Zelda qualities as well as your proposal for a possible game idea. And while I mean in no way any disrespect for saying this, I really hope that doesn't become a feature in the next installment. Having the 3DS as an optional way to advance the console game, while cool, sounds too similar to the Tingle Tuner from WW. It wasn't a bad idea, but what happened (for me, at least) is that when I found out what I was capable of doing, it was very hard for me NOT to buy a Gameboy Advance and run the Tingle Tuner. And so I presume the same effect would take on those exposed to this feature of a Zelda game. To feel a need, not a desire, to buy a 3DS if they don't already have one. Don't get me wrong, it makes sense, for Nintendo at least. They'd capitalize on the amount of 3DSs sold and they'd be a fool not to go with using this kind of technology. May I be as so bold as to say Nintendo could use the second analog stick attachment as a means to use a 3DS as a Wii U controller via wireless connection? Well that's a truly novel idea.

But my problem comes from the fact that the game play of the second person (or in most cases, the character that we switch to ourselves, because we're playing alone), is restricted to that of what Tingle could do, and in a best cast scenario it'd be what Tingle should have been able to do in WW. No, I'd say if the Wii U can support up to two Wii Pads, go all out and get the next Zelda installment rolling with a truly co-op optional gameplay.

Don't get me wrong. The idea to link up the 3DS to the Wii U should still be implemented, but the degree to which you'd like to advance both games simultaneously confuses me just thinking about it, as if both games operate on some parallel schema where equivalent advancement endures. I would take your idea and split it in half. So for the Wii U installment, have it be its own (co-op even). And for the 3DS, have that game have its own story. BUT, you could have a feature, much like Four Swords Adventure's gameplay where four individual 3DS installments can link up via the Wii U to join in each other's quest. I would go about doing this by having a Zelda game for 3DS, but a spin-off game for the Wii U that correlates with the 3DS game exclusively. Anyway, it might be a way to make the Zelda presence more eminent and abundant in the next couple of years.

As for Zelda game ideas, I've been working for a while on the development of a game called The Legend of Zelda: The Cardinal Kingdom, now being turned into a trilogy (The Legend of Zelda: Fierce Deity and The Legend of Zelda: Sage of Time). I'm not going to spam your post with heavy detail, but the game explores how to create a story with all elements that appease the masses, similar to how you prefer to incorporate what everyone wants.

It might be semi-productive at least to spitball ideas off of one another, receiving critical response in direction, etc. as we are two creators of the people. We wouldn't provide advice if it strayed from what was desired most in a Zelda game.

And if that's an accepted possibility then I suppose I'll start by saying, your cosplaying idea is similar to my customization method. See, in Hyrule Castle Town, and other locations throughout the many kingdoms of my series, there are Merchants (Bazaar owners), Blacksmiths (weapons forgers, SS), Alchemists (potion specializers), as well as other specific shops. One in particular is referred to as the Painter. In a similar way to how you can pay a builder to construct ruined buildings in Assassin's Creed, the Painter will be able to tag certain areas of the towns with a symbol specific to your game file. I don't mean in some graffiti sense, because I'm still unsure of the extent of the Painter's abilities and am pondering whether your symbol would be a secret to be kept or a publicly known thing. Regardless if that idea works or not, he will in the very least be able to customize things like your armor by painting on that. I'm not quite sure if weapons should be subject to the same attraction because that might start to look/sound tacky, but the idea is that you can make Link your own character. Another NPC that works this way is the Tailor, who customizes your actual clothes to different styles and colors.

In any case, these two NPCs would allow for side questing to expound their presence in the game. So helping the painter results in more of his work being seen around the area and helping the tailor results in more variations of clothing, etc. But those are two very small aspects that are less significant than some of the lower-end masks in MM (meaning the ones you hardly use, until the end).

As for transportation, you hit the nail on the head, saying that if the player has a strong desire to warp then there's something wrong with the between stuff. I would pose as devil's advocate to say that in some events, the player may decide they'd rather get straight to something. For instance, you're in one place and need to speak with an NPC somewhere else and then go another place, it would seem silly to not contemplate trekking across vast land. I think each game actually have a way to warp actually (the main console games), but the point is it shouldn't be overused. So for my series, transportation utilizes both horse riding and sailing. The distance between the two lands you must travel is only about half (no more) of what WW's map is and the two lands are located in a vast ocean where (similar to WW) you are directed after venturing off the map. These two lands are where the first story takes place, having the second take you to more locations. And I think what I may do for the third is change up some of the locations, and perhaps shrink the map slightly.

Anyway, that's my addition to the discussion.

 

[PatheticBarrel]

But my problem comes from the fact that the game play of the second person (or in most cases, the character that we switch to ourselves, because we're playing alone), is restricted to that of what Tingle could do, and in a best cast scenario it'd be what Tingle should have been able to do in WW. No, I'd say if the Wii U can support up to two Wii Pads, go all out and get the next Zelda installment rolling with a truly co-op optional gameplay.

Don't get me wrong. The idea to link up the 3DS to the Wii U should still be implemented, but the degree to which you'd like to advance both games simultaneously confuses me just thinking about it, as if both games operate on some parallel schema where equivalent advancement endures. I would take your idea and split it in half. So for the Wii U installment, have it be its own (co-op even). And for the 3DS, have that game have its own story. BUT, you could have a feature, much like Four Swords Adventure's gameplay where four individual 3DS installments can link up via the Wii U to join in each other's quest. I would go about doing this by having a Zelda game for 3DS, but a spin-off game for the Wii U that correlates with the 3DS game exclusively. Anyway, it might be a way to make the Zelda presence more eminent and abundant in the next couple of years.

That's actually a good idea. I know a while back I tossed around a MMO idea, and by having the Wii U as a 'central unit' for the players, this could be easily done. This is also apparently in the developers thoughts, as the Nintendo Land Zelda attraction shows.

Also, on the NPC's that you mentioned, as long as these weren't playable character types, it works for me.

I guess in my mind, I'm seeing Link lead a group of knights through the process of discovering the land in the years following SS. Link gets to be a part of the story, and maybe there is even a overarching quest that he is involved in, but the story focuses more on the players characters.

 

[rock]

That's actually a good idea. I know a while back I tossed around a MMO idea, and by having the Wii U as a 'central unit' for the players, this could be easily done. This is also apparently in the developers thoughts, as the Nintendo Land Zelda attraction shows.

Also, on the NPC's that you mentioned, as long as these weren't playable character types, it works for me.

I guess in my mind, I'm seeing Link lead a group of knights through the process of discovering the land in the years following SS. Link gets to be a part of the story, and maybe there is even a overarching quest that he is involved in, but the story focuses more on the players characters.

Let's hope then, that Nintendo Land's feature brings enough interest (I'm sure it will) so that this could be a casual interactive way for gamers to play Zelda to their heart's content, while also not robbing the hardcore players of their time to shine.

Those NPCs are as involved in the story as Beedle the sea merchant, or the Happy Mask Salesman, or any other primary character who let's you interact with them to enhance your gameplay via rupee expenditure. Of course, there's more than just them, but that was just to give you an idea of how customization works in.

As for your idea of having a story take place after SS in the discovery of Hyrule, I think that would be an interesting way to go about doing it. I mean Link did attend the Knight Academy. Maybe that's fully fleshed out and Link (over the course of the game) moves up its ranks based on a competitive challenge, perhaps taking on the rank higher up than you in some fashion. It'd be a nice way to detract from boss fights, etc. while also presenting challenging fight tactics. So you'd have bosses and the usual make up of things, but also this rank advancement if you will. Each new rank would earn you something else?

Not sure what the overarching story could be here, but the highlight should definitely be how the players play the game. Perhaps an idea for overarching story could be a MM-ish style where Link is searching for a friend (Zelda) who disappeared one night while they were down in the desolate version of Hyrule that we found them in at the end of SS?

Only thing is is that eventually, someone's going to have to explain how it got populated (hint hint). I for one hope Nintendo steers clear of awkwardness by staging the plot where Skyloft residents are setting up shop down below. It could be a very interactive game where advancement in temples is also coupled with advanced of individual character goals, populating an empty Hyrule? Just my thoughts.

 

[ThatCreepyGuy]

NINTENDO NEEDS TO MAKE A 3D FOUR SWORDS GAME ON THE WIIU!!!!! if they never make a new four swords game, I will be most displeased!! Oh and... IT'S OVER 9,000!!!!!! No. No that is not related to zelda what so ever...

-ThatCreepyGuy

 

[PatheticBarrel]

I'm not so interested in a FS game. I want to see some already in place stories that could use a nice continuation. Continuing SS with the development of Hyrule as a multiplayer co-op game would be awesome. The founding and mapping of a country can be of great importance.

A little off topic, but a follow up to AoL would be great, especially if it was about Sleeping Zelda and Link attempting to bring Hyrule back to it's former glory while dealing with the leftovers of Ganons power. Thus, we have Zelda III: Curse of Ganon.

 

[rock]

I'm not so interested in a FS game. I want to see some already in place stories that could use a nice continuation. Continuing SS with the development of Hyrule as a multiplayer co-op game would be awesome. The founding and mapping of a country can be of great importance.

A little off topic, but a follow up to AoL would be great, especially if it was about Sleeping Zelda and Link attempting to bring Hyrule back to it's former glory while dealing with the leftovers of Ganons power. Thus, we have Zelda III: Curse of Ganon.

Yes, continuing SS with a discovery of new land could totally reinvent what Hyrule means to us, in an excitingly creative way and by no means reformative. It could almost serve as the prequel to my series of games, which makes me consider once again revising my story trajectory and game development to extend from three plots, to four. I never fully understood this idea until now, and it is a genius one.

And the fact that you mention a "Curse of Ganon" plot naturally prompts me to present the sequel to my Cardinal Kingdom idea. See, in The Legend of Zelda: Cardinal Kingdom Link and Zelda (continuing the co-op detail) must stop an evil sorcerer from coming to power. And, haphazardly consequential to the game's events, Link and Zelda must then confront the wrath of Ganon after his breach from the Twilight Realm for the Cardinal Kingdom's sequel, The Legend of Zelda: Wrath of Ganon. This would then be followed by a third installment, staged toward the end of Link's life cycle, titled The Legend of Zelda: Sage of Time.

As for the prequel that sets the premise to all of the above, the initial idea could be an allusion to Hyrule eminent discovery. Something like The Legend of Zelda: Hylian Heroes, or The Legend of Zelda: King's Knight could be a suitable fit, setting the scene for Link's coming into knighthood from the Skyloft Knight Academy and the eventual domain of King Hyrule.

 

[Castle]

I want to be able to attempt dungeons in any order. A series of Zelda Dungeons usually come in stages, with the objective being the collection of a number of similarly themed items (Stones, Crystals, Pendants, Medallions, Pearls, etc). There is no reason why all the dungeons in a series cannot be completed in any order. I don't even want the game to tell us where to find them. Drop hints, for sure, but let players explore on their own to discover their locations and how to reach them, and along the way discover a whole slew of other hidden secrets!

Zelda Dungeons often only make particular use of the item found in that dungeon to solve its challenges. For those items like the Bow, Bombs, or Hookshot that are used extensively throughout the game, make those available on the field.

I don't like having to go through a series of dungeons in order when there is some other dungeon later that I would rather explore that the game doesn't let me enter until it says so.