I think I can fix the timeline so that the new revelations in TotK do not contradict the lore of the past games.

[RamboBambiBambo]

= = = SPOILERS FOR TEARS OF THE KINGDOM = = =

Read

At

Your

Own

Discretion




Okay.

So Tears of the Kingdom has Zelda go FAR into the past to very founding of Hyrule, and the information gleaned from the flashbacks has plenty of details hard contradicting the narrative of the main timeline thus far.

But I thought of a way around these contradictions to avoid an in-lore retcon in favor of a out-of-lore development retcon.
You see, Nintendo has stated many times that the events of Breath of the Wild take place so far into the future that the past games are thousands of years in the past.
But TotK has new information written that makes hard contradictions to facts established in the previous games, with one of the most poignant of offending details being that Ganondorf is ruler of the Gerudo at a time around the beginning of the timeline in an era where supposedly Hyrule was founded.

But I know a way to fix this.
Simply put, have Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom take place on a timeline that people are oblivious to its existene.

You see, in Skyward Sword there is a timeline split that people have not really noticed.
When you go back in time to plant the Lifefruit Tree Seed in the Sealed Temple, you cause a timeline spilt. There is now a timeline where we continue the game to its completion and there is a timeline where Link just vanished, unintentionally abandoning the world to suffer Demise's wrath.

And so, I think to best avoid a major series of in-universe retcons caused by the newly written narratives of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, Nintendo should exploit this unrealized and unexplored timeline, rescind their previous interviews in which they declared that BotW takes place around 100,000 years after the events of the other games in the timeline, and instead have the events of these two games take place on the timeline in which Skyward Sword Link abandoned.

We already have all the ingredients required to make it so.
The Zonai for example are gods and goddesses that abandoned their divine forms in favor of living mortal lives on the surface. This fact can be recontextualized as a backup plan that Hylia had in mind, foreseeing such an event because she is the Goddess of Time.
Skyward Sword Zelda frees herself from the amber crystal in the Sealed Temple and calls upon many of the other gods and goddesses. They heed the call and become mortals on the surface. Together, they defeat Demise once and for all. However, the Demon King lays a curse just as he does in the mainline continuity, a curse that promises a successor will be born.
Demise is killed and the curse is lain.
Time passes and peace resumes.
Eventually Rauru and Sonia bewed and found the Kingdom of Hyrule, in the name of the Goddess they would sacrifice their divinity for.
And then the events of The Imprisoning War will take place, leading into the events of The Great Calamity, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom.

And so, just as my chart above has it written out, we would then have seven timelines.
The Original Unified Timeline
The Lifefruit Tree Timeline, which is followed by the Downfall, Adulthood, and Childhood Timelines.
The Abandoned Timeline, which will also have Terrako's Paradox create a new timeline for Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity to take place within (heck, OG Hyrule Warriors could be made canon then as a game that takes place after Age of Calamity).

Problem solved.
No major retcons other than the originally established placement of where Breath of the Wild supposedly took place within.
The timeline just gets a bit more screwy to draw out on paper is all.

And so, if Nintendo did this, the order the games go in would be as follows -


Thoughts anyone?


EDIT -
Actually if you think about it, it wouldn't be a rescinding of the statement of "BotW takes place after all the other games" but rather a recontextualizing of that statement.
After all, they had 10,000 years of peace before the gameplay events of Breath of the Wild.
So honestly, even though BotW would be the first game in the Abandoned Timeline, it would technically take place in a year far beyond what the other games are taking place in.

So for example, Zelda II might be taking place in the year 1337 but BotW would be taking place in 11,337. so the statement quoted above would not be false but instead be given a new context if Nintendo went through with this sort of plan.

 

[DJ Twitch]

Your theory works and all, but I honestly think it's simpler than that. BotW was thrown thousands of years into the future, specifically so that previous lore wouldn't be an issue; I seriously doubt they'd do a 180 on that in the very next game.

The way it seems to me, TotK's ancient past still takes place some time after, for example, AoL. Long enough that Hyrule can disappear completely, be re-established, and so forth. There are better options, of course, but we all know what company we're dealing with here.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Your theory works and all, but I honestly think it's simpler than that. BotW was thrown thousands of years into the future, specifically so that previous lore wouldn't be an issue; I seriously doubt they'd do a 180 on that in the very next game.

The way it seems to me, TotK's ancient past still takes place some time after, for example, AoL. Long enough that Hyrule can disappear completely, be re-established, and so forth. There are better options, of course, but we all know what company we're dealing with here.

It takes place thousands of years in the future except for all the parts that take place thousands of years in the past and contradict a bunch of stuff. Ganon shows up to court and no one recognizes him, the Zonai just... existing as the first rulers of Hyrule in contradiction of the ending setup by Skyward Sword, and how the Imprisoning War was apparently just a scuffle between half a dozen guys in dumb hats.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

if there's one thing I dislike more than naming a totally different character the same name as a previous important character, it's naming a freaking EVENT the same name as a previous important one

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

if there's one thing I dislike more than naming a totally different character the same name as a previous important character, it's naming a freaking EVENT the same name as a previous important one

I look at that sort of thing as the equivalent of jiggling keys in front of a toddler. It's a shiny thing they recognize and so you jiggle them to elicit some sort of reaction. Rise of Skywalker, the newest Star Wars film, did the same thing by dropping names like "Revan" without any context and without any relation to the person behind the name.

 

[5teelPriest]

Yea, they really got me good with that opening scene. Then the goat man shows up and goes "It's me. I'm Rauru." and my disappointment was immeasurable and my day ruined.

As far as this timeline goes, I like it about as much as I like the Hyrule Historia timeline in general. If we assume the tree wasn't simply hidden like I assume the Master Sword was the entire time, then there is, indeed a timeline there to put things in. Sure, there's nothing really to set up the Zonai in SS to support it, but the DT is a thing here as well, so it's fine.

Your theory also happens to fit with my favorite timeline, in which DT actually comes from the cutscene that happens if you fail to get to Vaati in time in MC and places FSA in the DT instead of CT. So that's good to go as far as I'm concerned. Though I have the sinking feeling that now that you've done this, Nintendo is going to try even harder to invalidate the old lore going forward. You monster.

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

It honestly has to be very jarring for newer players who played Skyward Sword HD, getting to see the introduction of many details of the lore; and then suddenly TotK contradictions many known statements.

And no, this was not a theory.
There is an accidental timeline split that went unnoticed by people in Skyward Sword.
And given the new contradictory information that TotK presents, rather than perform a major retcon to the well established lore of the series; I believe that THIS timeline I presented would be the best way to avoid major retcons.
I'm not theorizing that BotW/TotK are canonically in this Abandoned Timeline, but rather PROPOSING that this would be where the games would best fit in.
Instead of retconning major details of the narrative, instead Nintendo could simply state that BotW/TotK takes place on this accidental timeline split in Skyward Sword.
It would help explain a few details such as -

• 
  
  • The fact that Ganondorf is in his first incarnation in TotK at the earliest era of the Kingdom of Hyrule (I know in BotW we have it said that "He has given up on Reincarnation", but either that is being ret-conned as of TotK's story OR it was a localization translation error of judgement made when translating from Japanese to English. After all, TotK has Ganondorf being around near the beginning of the Hyrule Kingdom, which heavily contradicts established lore that Hyrule existed for eons before Ganondorf was first born in Ocarina of Time.)
  • The fact that SS Link and SS Hylia/Zelda didn't establish Hyrule but instead it was Rauru and Sonia
  • The fact that the Zonai are a race of peoples that existed in the earliest days of the Kingdom but were never mentioned once in the series prior to these few games.
  • How the Zora and Rito can co-exist, with it being a separate timeline the two species co-exist rather than one being evolved out via magic wubba-dubba.
  [*]

And so, if Nintendo were so inclined to write it as such, the timeline would be as follows -

1. 
   
   1. Skyward Sword Link steps into the Gate of Time to plant the Lifefruit Tree, an act that causes a timeline split - A timeline where there IS a tree and we continue that game to the end... and a timeline where there IS NOT a tree and Link had unintentionally abandoned this timeline to ruin.
   2. Hylia/Zelda awakens from the amber she is sealed within at the Sealed Temple, being the Goddess of Time she had foreseen this timeline split and did not want to forsake a timeline to destruction and Demise's wrath.
   3. Hylia/Zelda calls upon other Gods and Goddesses that respected her and made a pact with her, calling them to do as she did to sacrifice her divinity to become mortal flesh; thus creating the Zonai.
   4. Hylia/Zelda then retrieves the Triforce from the Silent Realm to make use of it in the final time that Imprisoned Demise breaks from his seal; destroying him once and for all.
   5. Many of the Zonai return to their Divine Forms while others choose to live among the mortals and help rebuild and live mortal lives, such as Rauru.
   6. Eventually Sonia, Hylia/Zelda's descendent, beweds Rauru and together found the Kingdom of Hyrule.
   7. Era of Peace
   8. Ganondorf is eventually born and we see the events of The Imprisoning War as Tears of the Kingdom Flashbacks.
   9. Era of 10,000 years of peace
   10. The Great Calamity
   11. Hero of the Wilds Link sleeps for a century
   12. Events of Breath of the Wild
   13. Events of Tears of the Kingdom
   [*]

Simply put, they can state that BotW and TotK take place in this timeline that conveniently exists but has not really been noticed by anyone until now, AND it will allow their present statements to be true. After all, if BotW takes place thousands of years past all the other games, that detail may very well be true but rewritten as misleading.
For example, OoT is the origin of Ganondorf. Lets say it takes place in the year 1,777.
TotK Ganondorf could be born at the same era in TotK, but since he was sealed away in The Imprisoning War, there has been no major evil for 10,000 years.
And thus, by the time we reach the playable events of Breath of the Wild, it is now the year 11,877 (10,000 years of peace + Link's century of being in a coma.)
So while Zelda II may be the most recent game in the downfall timeline at lets say the year being 2,310; that is still THOUSANDS of years before we reach the year 11,877 in the other timeline.

It is a solution that avoids retcons and instead recontextualizes what the executives and devs have stated in interviews.
No retcons to lore.
Just recontextualizing the established metaknowledge.

 

[DJ Twitch]

It takes place thousands of years in the future except for all the parts that take place thousands of years in the past and contradict a bunch of stuff. Ganon shows up to court and no one recognizes him, the Zonai just... existing as the first rulers of Hyrule in contradiction of the ending setup by Skyward Sword, and how the Imprisoning War was apparently just a scuffle between half a dozen guys in dumb hats.

STOP THINKING! New Ganon, New Hyrule, and a different Imprisoning War!

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

STOP THINKING! New Ganon, New Hyrule, and a different Imprisoning War!

I just want Nintendo to give even a single **** about their continuity. I'm not asking for much, just one **** given.

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

I just want Nintendo to give even a single **** about their continuity. I'm not asking for much, just one **** given.

Well, they did at least give two ****s about it, seeing as Hyrule Historia presented the Timeline and the Zelda Encyclopedia presented an updated version to include a couple of the newer releases since 2011.
And those were the only two ****s they seem to have really given it since then.

I believe the timeline I have presented has it much more clearly written out as to how the contradictory nature of TotK's narrative fits into it all.

 

[yasasaga]

= = = SPOILERS FOR TEARS OF THE KINGDOM = = =

Read

At

Your

Own

Discretion

View attachment 70902


Okay.

So Tears of the Kingdom has Zelda go FAR into the past to very founding of Hyrule, and the information gleaned from the flashbacks has plenty of details hard contradicting the narrative of the main timeline thus far.

But I thought of a way around these contradictions to avoid an in-lore retcon in favor of a out-of-lore development retcon.
You see, Nintendo has stated many times that the events of Breath of the Wild take place so far into the future that the past games are thousands of years in the past.
But TotK has new information written that makes hard contradictions to facts established in the previous games, with one of the most poignant of offending details being that Ganondorf is ruler of the Gerudo at a time around the beginning of the timeline in an era where supposedly Hyrule was founded.

But I know a way to fix this.
Simply put, have Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom take place on a timeline that people are oblivious to its existene.

You see, in Skyward Sword there is a timeline split that people have not really noticed.
When you go back in time to plant the Lifefruit Tree Seed in the Sealed Temple, you cause a timeline spilt. There is now a timeline where we continue the game to its completion and there is a timeline where Link just vanished, unintentionally abandoning the world to suffer Demise's wrath.

And so, I think to best avoid a major series of in-universe retcons caused by the newly written narratives of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, Nintendo should exploit this unrealized and unexplored timeline, rescind their previous interviews in which they declared that BotW takes place around 100,000 years after the events of the other games in the timeline, and instead have the events of these two games take place on the timeline in which Skyward Sword Link abandoned.

We already have all the ingredients required to make it so.
The Zonai for example are gods and goddesses that abandoned their divine forms in favor of living mortal lives on the surface. This fact can be recontextualized as a backup plan that Hylia had in mind, foreseeing such an event because she is the Goddess of Time.
Skyward Sword Zelda frees herself from the amber crystal in the Sealed Temple and calls upon many of the other gods and goddesses. They heed the call and become mortals on the surface. Together, they defeat Demise once and for all. However, the Demon King lays a curse just as he does in the mainline continuity, a curse that promises a successor will be born.
Demise is killed and the curse is lain.
Time passes and peace resumes.
Eventually Rauru and Sonia bewed and found the Kingdom of Hyrule, in the name of the Goddess they would sacrifice their divinity for.
And then the events of The Imprisoning War will take place, leading into the events of The Great Calamity, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom.

And so, just as my chart above has it written out, we would then have seven timelines.
The Original Unified Timeline
The Lifefruit Tree Timeline, which is followed by the Downfall, Adulthood, and Childhood Timelines.
The Abandoned Timeline, which will also have Terrako's Paradox create a new timeline for Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity to take place within (heck, OG Hyrule Warriors could be made canon then as a game that takes place after Age of Calamity).

Problem solved.
No major retcons other than the originally established placement of where Breath of the Wild supposedly took place within.
The timeline just gets a bit more screwy to draw out on paper is all.

And so, if Nintendo did this, the order the games go in would be as follows -
View attachment 70903

Thoughts anyone?


EDIT -
Actually if you think about it, it wouldn't be a rescinding of the statement of "BotW takes place after all the other games" but rather a recontextualizing of that statement.
After all, they had 10,000 years of peace before the gameplay events of Breath of the Wild.
So honestly, even though BotW would be the first game in the Abandoned Timeline, it would technically take place in a year far beyond what the other games are taking place in.

So for example, Zelda II might be taking place in the year 1337 but BotW would be taking place in 11,337. so the statement quoted above would not be false but instead be given a new context if Nintendo went through with this sort of plan.

Do we have any idea of how long it's been though?

Using mainly the rock salt I believe it just makes more sense that it takes place in the adult timeline in an unflooded Hyrule, and since hyrule was destroyed for many years during and after the flood this "new hyrule" could have a "first king" being rauru and also since it's been 10k years they don't call it "new hyrule"

To explain rauru's name I think its just another case of all Zelda's being named zelda with the exception of Tetra, and all Links being named Link. This could be wrong mainly because I don't know much about the sages

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

Do we have any idea of how long it's been though?

The Imprisoning War of TotK most likely takes place during an era that runs parallel to the timeframe that Ocarina of Time's story, seeing that Ganondorf is born and covets Hyrule's Power.
OoT has Ganondorf seeking the Triforce.
TotK has Ganondorf seeking a Secret Stone of the Zonai.

So technically if OoT takes place in the year 'xxxx' then logically the Imprisoning War takes place in the same time-frame in a parallel timeline and the playable story of BotW/TotK would take place in the year 'xxxx+10,100'.

Using mainly the rock salt I believe it just makes more sense that it takes place in the adult timeline in an unflooded Hyrule, and since hyrule was destroyed for many years during and after the flood this "new hyrule" could have a "first king" being rauru and also since it's been 10k years they don't call it "new hyrule"

But there are many contradictory details surrounding that logic as well.

Ganondorf has only been born once in the games. Every other time it has him being returned from his sealing or being resurrected by his demon followers and always in a pig-demon form when resurrected from the dead. We already know the origins of Ganondorf thanks to Ocarina of Time.
But the Ganondorf presented in TotK's narrative shows that he has an entirely different origin story than the previous times. He is born at a time when the Kingdom of Hyrule was still young and in its infancy.

Plus having the flood waters recede and the land rediscovered will not warrant the start of a Hyrule Kingdom again, seeing as we already have a Hyrule Kingdom set on a new continent in the Adulthood Timeline, being the location of the Lokomo Tribe and the setting of Spirit Tracks. So if the royal family rediscovered the old world as the waters receded, they would not simply found a new Kingdom but rather expand their borders. And Spirit Tracks is one of the games that BotW has no mention of at all, aside from probably one hill named after one of the Lokomo sages and the Phantom Armor.

As for Rock Salt? You can find that in the majority of the regions of the world IRL.

--- --- ---

Sorry to say, but there is far too many contradictory elements of the narrative presented in TotK to have it be on any timeline other than simply assigning it to be on a new parallel timeline. Otherwise we have major retcon issues to deal with.

 

[RuMbLePaKk]

I like this but that would mean this timeline has no recollection of events from the other games, which wouldnt work because theres stone slabs around zoras domain talking about OOT link no?

Also zelda references the twilight realm in one of the memory cutscenes in botk.

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

I like this but that would mean this timeline has no recollection of events from the other games, which wouldnt work because theres stone slabs around zoras domain talking about OOT link no?

I would have to re-read those tablets to see if they make an actual mention to the Hero of Time or just if it is referring to a Hero in general.

Also zelda references the twilight realm in one of the memory cutscenes in botk.

In the lore the Twilight realm was always a thing. It was just never really relevant outside of the events of Twilight Princess. So it makes sense that other timelines that didn't have to go through the events of Twilight Princess will still have knowledge of this other realm.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

You see, in Skyward Sword there is a timeline split that people have not really noticed.
When you go back in time to plant the Lifefruit Tree Seed in the Sealed Temple, you cause a timeline spilt. There is now a timeline where we continue the game to its completion and there is a timeline where Link just vanished, unintentionally abandoning the world to suffer Demise's wrath.

This could be true if it weren't for the fact that everything that happens in Skyward Sword is supposedly predestined, moving the life tree sapling shouldn't cause a whole timeline split under this logic. Basically the older version of Impa having Zelda's bracelet from the first time she is met in the game confirms the path is already set in stone. It's worth noting too that she has the bracelet before the life tree sapling is moved to the Sealed Temple, which obviously doesn't work under the theory that the game begins in a timeline destined to be hopeless, Impa should not have the bracelet at all at the beginning of the game in that case.

Regardless, your theory basically just creates a retconned new continuity framed in the same universe, which feels kind of pointless? I think what people would want is a way to make BotW/TotK to still work to explain BotW's few references to past games, not an explanation for another timeline split that doesn't even tie into anything else.

That said, I haven't finished the game, but after finishing the Dragons Tear questline my view is probably that TotK is meant to reboot the series. At best, if fans feel inclined maybe there is a way to say TotK's backstory takes place so far in the future between the last game on whatever timeline people want it to be on that the old kingdom has long collapsed, Rauru reestablishes it, and Ganondorf is reborn. I don't know if this works, I'm not sure if history of an entire kingdom could be completely wiped away in such a way.