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I think I can fix the timeline so that the new revelations in TotK do not contradict the lore of the past games.

RamboBambiBambo

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I'd still rather have it be another alternate timeline. Especially given the fact that many other factors of the game contradict the other game facts. For example, the sheer lack of the Four Sword even being in the games. So many other legacy weapons have made their return, so why has that not been in these three games yet?

There is also the lack of the Lokomo and Phantom Swords, and a lack of mention of the Lokomo tribe and railway systems outside of the Zonai rail puzzles and the minecarts of the Gorons. Minecarts, not even real trains.
The White Sword and Magic Sword are absent unfortunately.

And early development ideas did have a plan for there to be a Picori village but that was scrapped. So many main timeline things are missing with only minor references here and there in location names.

If BotW/TotK is not a franchise reboot with nostalgia appeal and they want to declare it as part of the main continuity, there are FAR too many contradictions both major and minor that it HAS to be set in an alternate parallel timeline to avoid retcons.
 
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I'll quote what I said in my new topic, and see if I can't reignite any discussion:

So, I get that alot of people, have been readdressing the timeline debate of where BotW(and in turn, TotK) take place in the Zelda timeline since the release of TotK. I figured that as one of the most prominent theorists on this board, I should do the same.

So, here it is: before the release of TotK, I was adamant that BotW could only be on the DT. I still stand by a DT placement for BotW and TotK. We still have a Hyrule attacked many times by Ganon, according to Aonuma, the OoT sages are remembered in a non flooded Hyrule(TotK even has Sidon confirming he's a descendant of Ruto, doubling down on said connection), and Creating a Champion says that Calamity Ganon is the same Ganondorf from OoT having been revived multiple times(by saying that the Ganondorf that became the Calamity was born in the same era as Nabooru). Which is weird right, since TotK Ganondorf is a different guy? Seems contradictory in some ways, no? Hell, TotK Ganon doesn't even seem to remember being Calamity Ganon...if he really did become the Calamity, he should remember. Zelda and others don't even seem to put two and two together.

Well, I have a way to reconcile this, but it means that people have to come to terms with the fact that TotK Ganon is the earliest known Ganon, not OoT Ganon. This makes sense , as nothing in OoT says that its Ganondorf is the first Gerudo male ever named Ganondorf. And it also makes sense since the backstory of TotK takes place during Hyrule's founding. I know some people argue that it's a REfounding, but if that were the case, I would've felt like we would've been made more aware of it. We see some strong evidence supporting this being the founding of Old Hyrule, not some DT New Hyrule; there's a smoke ring around Death Mountain like in OoT that doesn't exist in BotW or the present day of TotK, meaning the developers had to have purposely added this to tell us something. It also seemed to be more heavily forested in like in earlier games like FS and OoT. We also have a Koume and Kotake that are very young. And we also know ingame from Zelda that the Zonai were around during the time of ''earliest legend'' despite the BotW/TotK era having legends about the Era of the Hero of Time.

So, how can OoT Ganon be born and running around while TotK Ganon is sealed away? Well, remember that Ganon is known for having offshoots of his spirit escape seals and become their own unique people/creatures/creations. Some examples include in ALttP, when part of his spirit escaped the Sacred Realm creating the dark priest Agahnim, or in BotW, how Calamity Ganon's spirit fragments created the Blight Ganons, etc. It's not hard to imagine, based on precedent that can be observed in the games, that something similar happened here. Over the generations, some part of TotK Ganondorf's spirit and malice bypassed the seal and gave birth to another Gerudo child, who is the Ganondorf that we see in OoT, and most games in the series aside from TotK and FSA. Despite effectively partly being a reincarnation of TotK Ganondorf, he doesn't have his memories or the same exact personality traits(hence why I consider TotK Ganon and OoT Ganon different people, like how FSA Ganon is a seperate person from OoT Ganon despite being a reincarnation of OoT Ganon). Anyway, TotK Ganondorf doesn't escape until TotK; people might question how he didn't awaken in OoT when there was a hole beneath where HC used to be(in fact, it even looks similar to the malice/miasma holes in TotK...hmm...), but it's probable that it didn't go deep enough; remember that Calamity Ganon attacked multiple times prior to BotW, and he didn't set TotK Ganon free regardless, so you have to explain that regardless.

So as we know, OoT Ganon keeps getting defeated over and over on the DT and being revived again and again, and he becomes a mindless beast, losing his humanity both physically and mentally, and eventually, OoT Ganon becomes Calamity Ganon, only thing left of him being his vengeful spirit made of malice. And OoT Ganon's spirit and malice is literally a part of TotK Ganon's spirit and malice, so Calamity Ganon stays stuck/sealed to Hyrule Castle for the most part as everything about him at this point literally belongs to TotK Ganon far beneath said castle, establishing a connection between the two. After BotW ends and OoT/Calamity Ganon faces his latest sealing courtesy of Zelda, TotK Ganondorf awakens.

TL;DR version. OoT Ganondorf and TotK Ganondorf are seperate Demon Kings, with TotK Ganon being the first, and OoT (DT) Ganon=BotW/Calamity Ganon.

The only thing that may not seem to gel that well with this is the fact that Impa says that the Calamity is the ancient Demon King revived as a vengeful spirit(I'm paraphrasing the JP). Now, technically speaking, both OoT Ganondorf and TotK Ganondorf are both Demon Kings, but if someone were playing TotK as their first Zelda game, they would naturally assume that this is the same Demon King from the rest of the game, and not some other Demon King, yes? Well, true, but there's precedent supporting the fact that Nintendo themselves doesn't hold true to this standard in regards to the wider series lore. For example, in TP, people mention an ancient hero, and the Hero's Shade talks about how he accepted life as the hero. People who have never played another Zelda game and have no clue about the series lore would naturally assume that the HS is the same hero mentioned by people in TP, right, and it would make logical sense, too. Well, yes, but they would be wrong, as the HS is the Hero of Time, who is forgotten on the Child Timeline, meaning that the hero mentioned is some other hero who we may not have seen yet. In FSA, the protagonist is named Link, and the backstory says that Link(who we know as the one from FS) was the hero who sealed Vaati previously. The game doesn't go too far out of its way to say that the Link you play as is a new hero to the point where prior to HH, alot of people, myself included, believed them to be the same hero. And that goes for both series fans and newcomers, in that case. So, using that same principle, we can not confirm if Impa is talking about the Demon King from this game, or another Demon King, especially when the Calamity isn't super relevant in TotK compared to BotW.


The only potential problem with a DT placement is the Imprisoning War thing, but this can be easily explained one of two ways:

1) There were two Imprisoning Wars(one Post-SS, one Pre-ALttP) like how we have two World Wars in real life

2) Parts of the Imprisoning War from the ALttP backstory legend(including the name) were smudged together with the Zonai War(this concept is not new to the series; see the backstory of ALBW, which ''smudged'' together different events together as one over time)

This reconciles all the information we know about the placement of BotW/TotK then and now, and it does so in a manner that doesn't ignore any previous or current developer intent.
 
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The only way i see Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can Fit in the Old Zelda Timeline is to make both Games happen in a Timeline created in Skyward Sword where Demise was Defeated as the Imprisoned or where Skyward Sword Zelda never woke up from her Ritual so Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can takes place in a Timeline where Ocarina of Time never happens since Rauru is not a Hylian or Ganondorf Origin is different in Tears of the Kingdom
 
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The only way i see Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can Fit in the Old Zelda Timeline is to make both Games happen in a Timeline created in Skyward Sword where Demise was Defeated as the Imprisoned or where Skyward Sword Zelda never woke up from her Ritual so Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can takes place in a Timeline where Ocarina of Time never happens since Rauru is not a Hylian or Ganondorf Origin is different in Tears of the Kingdom
If OoT never happens, how do you explain all the references to it in BotW and TotK? Such as the Monuments talking about Ruto, etc.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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The only way i see Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can Fit in the Old Zelda Timeline is to make both Games happen in a Timeline created in Skyward Sword where Demise was Defeated as the Imprisoned or where Skyward Sword Zelda never woke up from her Ritual so Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can takes place in a Timeline where Ocarina of Time never happens since Rauru is not a Hylian or Ganondorf Origin is different in Tears of the Kingdom
I mean, if you have to create an entirely new continuity branch because the timeline is so bad can you really say that you're fitting it into the old Zelda timeline?
If OoT never happens, how do you explain all the references to it in BotW and TotK? Such as the Monuments talking about Ruto, etc.
References to things that people recognize with no thought given to a timeline. :eyes:
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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Is that why the Monument is portrayed as a part of the history of Hyrule?
I can't really profess to know what goes through the minds of the writers, but BotW and TotK are intensely contradictory to the rest of the series, so yeah, it is just a reference given without thought. It's the equivalent of the newest Star Wars film dropping the name of Darth Revan. It's a name that people recognize, so they're jingling keys hoping fans will grab on.
 
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I can't really profess to know what goes through the minds of the writers, but BotW and TotK are intensely contradictory to the rest of the series, so yeah, it is just a reference given without though. It's the equivalent of the newest Star Wars film dropping the name of Darth Revan. It's a name that people recognize, so they're jingling keys hoping fans will grab on.
It's not just a namedrop, though; it goes in depth on how she was an attendant to the fish patron deity, how she was lively, and that she awakened as a sage to help the hero and princess of that time fight evil. If it was something like the place names in both games being named after places and characters from other games, I'd agree with you since it's impossible for places to be the same as places outside of Hyrule or non existent places such as the ones with the same name as in Link's Awakening(Mabe Village Ruins), but this is clear, explicit, and precise history.

BotW and TotK also work well on the Downfall Timeline without being ''insanely contradictory'' to the rest of the series.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

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It's not just a namedrop, though; it goes in depth on how she was an attendant to the fish patron deity, how she was lively, and that she awakened as a sage to help the hero and princess of that time fight evil. If it was something like the place names in both games being named after places and characters from other games, I'd agree with you since it's impossible for places to be the same as places outside of Hyrule or non existent places such as the ones with the same name as in Link's Awakening(Mabe Village Ruins), but this is clear, explicit, and precise history.

BotW and TotK also work well on the Downfall Timeline without being ''insanely contradictory'' to the rest of the series.
I think the existence of a whole race (rito) might not sit right w/ that 2nd paragraph

so they somehow came to be after SS for that imprisoning scuffle to happen, only to completely disappear (die off?) before MC happened, and just have zero presence in every downfall zelda game until they just randomly pop up again?

if they did die off, it's impossible for tulin and the current rito to be descendants of them, this whole thing just reads as there being nothing to get in the way b/w TotK's backstory and the game itself, let alone nearly 10 games that have nothing mentioning the rito
 
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Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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It's not just a namedrop, though; it goes in depth on how she was an attendant to the fish patron deity, how she was lively, and that she awakened as a sage to help the hero and princess of that time fight evil. If it was something like the place names in both games being named after places and characters from other games, I'd agree with you since it's impossible for places to be the same as places outside of Hyrule or non existent places such as the ones with the same name as in Link's Awakening(Mabe Village Ruins), but this is clear, explicit, and precise history.

BotW and TotK also work well on the Downfall Timeline without being ''insanely contradictory'' to the rest of the series.
I mean, the downfall timeline is already a retcon made up by Nintendo 30 years after the fact. By its very nature it is insanely contradictory to the rest of the franchise. :eyes:
 
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I think the existence of a whole race (rito) might not sit right w/ that 2nd sentence

so they somehow came to be after SS for that imprisoning scuffle to happen, only to completely disappear (die off?) before MC happened, and just have zero presence in every downfall zelda game until they just randomly pop up again?

if they did die off, it's impossible for tulin and the current rito to be descendants of them, this whole thing just reads as there being nothing to get in the way b/w TotKr's backstory and the game itself, let alone nearly 10 games that have nothing mentioning the rito

Not seeing them in certain games doesn't mean anything. For example, in TP, we don't see any Gerudo aside from Ganondorf, and yet in the next game after, we see them in FSA. That doesn't mean they didn't exist in TP, It means that they aren't relevant to the plot of that game, so Nintendo didn't use them for that game, just like how the Rito are not relevant to the plots the other DT games, so they aren't utilized there either.

Hell, there's many centuries between FS and FSA, and there's multiple heroes that have nothing to do with the Four Sword or Vaati, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or even not remembered during those time periods; just that they aren't relevant to the plot that Nintendo wanted to tell for OoT, MM, or TP.

We also only visit Tabantha (the stomping grounds of the Rito that we see in BotW/TotK more or less) in one other Zelda game (TMC), where it's called ''Castor Wilds'' in the English localization.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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Not seeing them in certain games doesn't mean anything. For example, in TP, we don't see any Gerudo aside from Ganondorf, and yet in the next game after, we see them in FSA. That doesn't mean they didn't exist in TP, It means that they aren't relevant to the plot of that game, so Nintendo didn't use them for that game, just like how the Rito are not relevant to the plots the other DT games, so they aren't utilized there either.

Hell, there's many centuries between FS and FSA, and there's multiple heroes that have nothing to do with the Four Sword or Vaati, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or even not remembered during those time periods; just that they aren't relevant to the plot that Nintendo wanted to tell for OoT, MM, or TP.

We also only visit Tabantha (the stomping grounds of the Rito that we see in BotW/TotK more or less) in one other Zelda game (TMC), where it's called ''Castor Wilds'' in the English localization.
The reason the Rito aren't mentioned in the downfall timeline is because the Rito didn't exist as a concept until Wind Waker came out. :eyes:
 

mαrkαsscoρ

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on the other hand, FSA obviously wasn't meant to take place after TP and was just placed there b/c...I don't know, where else?

not to mention that's only 1 game skip, a race being completely nonexistent for 10 whole games only to suddenly be very important in this one, and we're supposed to infer that they were around the whole time? its extremely sloppy and just feels like they wanted to reboot the lore instead
 
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on the other hand, FSA obviously wasn't meant to take place after TP and was just placed there b/c...I don't know, where else?

not to mention that's only 1 game skip, a race being completely nonexistent for 10 whole games only to suddenly be very important in this one, and we're supposed to infer that they were around the whole time? its extremely sloppy and just feels like they wanted to reboot the lore instead
The Minish are the whole reason why Rupees and stuff are hidden under bushes in Zelda games, and yet we only see them in one game, which is also the only game where they're even mentioned. This concept really isn't as foreign to the series as you are making it sound.

And if this is a reboot, why are there detailed historical accounts of the Era of the Hero of Time?
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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The Minish are the whole reason why Rupees and stuff are hidden under bushes in Zelda games, and yet we only see them in one game, which is also the only game where they're even mentioned. This concept really isn't as foreign to the series as you are making it sound.

And if this is a reboot, why are there detailed historical accounts of the Era of the Hero of Time?
The concept isn't foreign to Zelda, but it's also really bad. Suddenly introducing world shaking elements of a franchise that haven't existed in any other entry while retroactively claiming they were there the whole time is pretty bad storytelling and continuity.
 
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