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I Need Help Understanding the "Hero Defeated" Timeline.

Hero_in_Green

Hero of Time
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Canada
Obviously it clearly states that this timeline would happen if Link was defeated in Ocarina of Time. So does this mean that The classic Zelda games (with the exception of OoX) take place in an alternate universe say if Link dies in Ocarina of Time?
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Location
Private Oasis
Personally, I'm not buying into this "official" timeline. But yes, it's an alternate reality where Link dies, yet Ganon still ends up sealed in the sacred realm. Looks like Link wasn't even needed. When you look at it even further, Link's death would be the favorable out come, seeing as that Hyrule wouldn't flood if he died.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Hylian Champion
Essentially, the "Link's Defeat" timeline is a what-if scenario – a conditional statement. *If* Link died in the fight against Ganondorf (which we know he won't – he's scripted to win to my dismay), then the events of ALttP, OoX and so on would occur. Similarly, *if* Link defeats, Zelda sends him back in time, creating both the CT and the AT in the process.

So, you can view the 3rd split as noncanon if you like, because we know that Link will always win. I think that is Nintendo's way of saying "these games are too old and cause too many problems, so we're gonna throw them to the wind".
 

Hero_in_Green

Hero of Time
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Canada
But Vanitas thats a little disheartening :( The classic games are too close to peoples hearts just to throw them to the wind. Sure they cause conflict but they can easily place within the child timeline since they are all connected together. Take the connection to Twilight Princess where the Master Sword is located in a sacred grove in the forest as it is in a Link to the Past. The game would take place before a Link to the Past as at the end of ALTTP the Master Sword "Sleeps Forever", meaning it was the last time it was ever used on that timeline. Also ALTTP was obviously supposed to be a sequal (in timeline events) to Ocarina of Time. Now since Links Awakening and the Oracle Games (as we've now seen) are all related to ALTTP then those would follow, following the original Legend of Zelda and Zelda II.
 
W

WretchedShiro

Guest
Think about it as a vision laid into Link's head whilst he was sleeping for 7 years to warn him what will happen if he doesn't defeat Ganon rather than him actually dying, if you think of it like that you get hope back in your life.
 

Ochibi

An enthusiastic nobody.
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Location
Gotham City.
I read this in the forums somewhere, but I forgot which thread it was so I can't provide the original theory-- sorry;;
But they said something along the lines of;

When Link pulls the Mastersword out of the pedestal he sleeps for 7 years-- That's not necessarily time traveling, it's just waiting for 7 years to past.
Only when Adult Link goes back in time he time travels, creating some sort-of "Alternate Universe".

When Adult Link time travels to the 'Young Link time', the 'Adult time' that he came from is still 'active'.

So with Link gone from the 'Adult Time' and having the 'Adult Time' still in motion Ganon wins because Link is in the 'Young Time'.

Ugh, that's the sloppiest explanation ever-- But I think it's more plausible than Nintendo copping-out and just making an AU.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
I was hoping this 3rd split ran parallel with the others, but it wouldn't. If Link dies, then there isn't anyone to cause the other 2 splits.
 
T

Tadock

Guest
I read this in the forums somewhere, but I forgot which thread it was so I can't provide the original theory-- sorry;;
But they said something along the lines of;

The problem with this theory is that after Link travels back to "Young Link time" he has to travel back to the adult time. When he does this all of the effects he had made on the original adult time exist. How can that be if he is traveling to a new timeline?
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
I don't think that the full explanation has reached the general Western Zelda comminity, however it seems like the "Downfall Timeline" is the events that take place if/when OoT Link is defeated by Ganondorf in the future.

It is possible to claim that the DT is a "what if"-story and that the Classics have been abandoned. It is also possible to argue that the AT and the CT are the "what ifs", for the Classic games existed prior to OoT. Another idea is that they are all equally "what if", for they are only fictional stories.

However, my view on this matter is like this:

These games exist in their own "superreality", i.e. the univsere where the stories of the Zeldaverse take place. They are not real, for they are only fiction. The games are, however, real to the in-game universe.

--------------------/---WW/PH---ST
SS---TMC/FS---OoT
--------------------\MM---TP---FSA

The DT exists in its own "hyperreality", i.e. they exist to themsemselves, but not to the general superreality of the normal games.

SS---TMC/FS---OoT---AlttP/OoX/LA---LoZ/AoL

tl;dr The DT is real to itself, but "less" real than the AT and the CT.

/Blue Window
 

Hero_in_Green

Hero of Time
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Canada
Thanks Blue Window that helped a lot! I mean as much as I dont like the idea of the classics being abandoned it works. Link could be defeated and the goddesses could reincarnate Link in the Downfall Timeline like they did in the Wind Waker as that Link had no relation to the Hero of Time since he didn't exist in the Adult Timeline anymore.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
Is this officially listed as a "what if" timeline? Until it is, we can't really say one way or another.

A great number of time travel stories involve changing history. Someone--or something--from the child or adult timelines could just as well have gone back in time to change things just a bit, align them so that Ganon could defeat Link. If we see a third split, it's safe to assume it's parallel, not alternate.

I haven't seen it officially stated that these are either/or timelines, but rather that they're coexisting ones. If that's the case, it can be explained.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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The problem, though, is that Link is scripted to win each and every time. Nintendo is copping out, eventually they'll start to retcon if that's the case. For example, SS--MC/FS--OoT. Where the hell did the Picori Blade come from and what is it, really?

Another situation is, if Link were defeated in OoT, then Ganondorf *would have* gained the Triforce of Courage, and knowing how he is, he'd go directly to Zelda and take her piece as well, becoming the 'true ruler of the world'. How then would he be sealed? The final battle still took place in Hyrule, not the Sacred Realm/Dark World. The sages alone couldn't seal him while he was running rampant, which is why they put LINK to the task of stopping him.
 
Joined
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To Hero_in_Green

No problem!

It seems like Link can come back as many times he wants! No, seriously: (SS spoiler)
We can use Demise's curse as the reason Link comes back over and over again.
AlttP Link is also said to be a descendant of the Knights of Hyrule.

To Vanitas

It is, in theory, possible to think that there can be a new, "what if" ending, for every game: What if Link loses in AoL? What if Link loses in OoA, but not OoS? etc.

The story of the early DT seems to be like this:

(Future OoT)

Ganondorf defeats Link, takes the ToC. Ganondorf takes the ToW from Zelda. Ganondorf wishes upon the Triforce, the Dark World is created. Greedy people go to the Dark World. The Sages, and the Knights of Hyrule, seal Ganon without Link. (i.e. Seal War).

/Blue Window
 
Joined
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Someone posted a video about how the third timeline is based on link ceasing to exist more then being defeated. Zelda created a paradox when she sent link back in time at the end of the game creating the child timeline where basically nothing in OoT actually happened. Since there was a past time where he got the stones and got the master sword a timeline was created where he never went further then that since he was sent back to the very very beginning instead of to this point. By going back into the past after getting the master sword (to get the lens of truth and help naburoo) he established a past timeline. In this timeline he pretty much just dissapeared after drawing the sword from the pedestal without stopping gannondorf since he was sent back to another past where none of his quest happened at all (no sacred stones, no opening of the sealed realm or getting the master sword). I like this theory since I don't like the "what if" idea of Link failing a quest and it also means that all of the games are canon and in 3 parallel timelines that can all exist at the same time. There is only one link in this scenario (in the child timeline, which goes into MM), unlinke in the link is killed scenario where there would be two links the one that failed and the one that succeeded. Hope that makes sense the video does a way better job and has a handy diagram!
 

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