I Need Help Understanding the "Hero Defeated" Timeline.

[guapo2003]

I totally agree with you on this one. I've shared my theroy on this somewhere on these boards, but I can't remember where lol. But yes there is NO WAY that Link failed as mentioned in the "so-called" timeline. If they are trying to say Link failed in Ocarina of Time, how come it's just for this game there was an alternate timeline. Why not any of the other Zelda games where Link could have "failed"? It doesn't make any sense and I understand where you coming from when he "failed to prevent Ganon" from getting the Tirforce, but it still can't magically make an alternate timeline, because that's not what Ocarina of Time was about, because Link grew older and thus "defeated Ganon". I can understand the whole Adult/Child Link timelines, because they are "different realities".

But yes this timeline with an alternate "3rd split" makes no sense. It was just a way of Nintendo saying "Hey, here's your timeline Zelda fans, now shut up and quit asking for one." You, me, and everyone else that has a brain knows there is NO ZELDA TIMELINE. Nintendo wasn't even considering one when they were making these games. Afterall, they are just games. There are very few that are based off each other such as Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass/Spirit tracks to name a couple. But yes Nintendo's "so-called" timeline is a BS COP-OUT and thus it will remain and give Zelda fans a ray of hope that there is an "actual" timeline and to keep them busy discussing it for the new 25 years.

 

[Flare24]

OoT was a strange game anyway. I mean the way he goes through time like that he could of just not existed in that time plane at all and couldn't stop Ganon. Meaning A Link to The Past's Link would step in for the Linkless timeline that's ruled by Ganon.

 

[Fierce_Deity]

But yes this timeline with an alternate "3rd split" makes no sense. It was just a way of Nintendo saying "Hey, here's your timeline Zelda fans, now shut up and quit asking for one." You, me, and everyone else that has a brain knows there is NO ZELDA TIMELINE. Nintendo wasn't even considering one when they were making these games.

I believe you're wrong. AoL was a sequel to LoZ- AttP was a prequel to LoZ and OoT is a prequel to all those games. So there was a timeline even back then. Nintendo then chose split the timeline with WW and TP using OoTs ambiguous time travel ending.

The 3rd split may or may not be a "what if". At first I thought it was but now I see fans coming up with ways that would make it not so and still run parallel with other 2 times. Although a lot of these have holes in them still, it makes me believe that Nintendo has an explanation (and could be explained if the book is ever released/translated fully and correctly in English).

 

[guapo2003]

I believe you're wrong. AoL was a sequel to LoZ- AttP was a prequel to LoZ and OoT is a prequel to all those games. So there was a timeline even back then. Nintendo then chose split the timeline with WW and TP using OoTs ambiguous time travel ending.

The 3rd split may or may not be a "what if". At first I thought it was but now I see fans coming up with ways that would make it not so and still run parallel with other 2 times. Although a lot of these have holes in them still, it makes me believe that Nintendo has an explanation (and could be explained if the book is ever released/translated fully and correctly in English).

Did you even read my whole post, what I said was. ]"There are very few that are based off each other such as Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass/Spirit tracks to name a couple."

I didn't mention EVERY one of them, if you understood my point. Yes, the first 2 games were based on each other, but how does A Link To The Past come first in this "what-if" timeline? It was just another game that made with no direction saying it was a sequel or not. Yes, everyone has their own opinions which is what the TC was wanting, so thank you for atleast stating "you believe" instead of flat out saying "your wong".

 

[Locke]

I think it's bad practice to try to think of ways that the given evidence can not be true just because we don't like it. We're told that the hero is defeated, so we should accept that. Yes, one could hope that the more detailed description of the events will be more satisfying when translated, but right now the basic conclusion is simply what the text says - the hero is defeated. The only alternative I recognize is to argue that this split shows that the Historia timeline doesn't accurately represent the Zelda universe and should be ignored altogether. None of this picking and choosing which revelations fit one's own preconceived notions and which don't.

 

[billbot85]

My friend was trying to explain this "Hero Defeated" timeline to me the other day. I think the whole Timeline Theory has gone waaaaaay overboard. I really feel that only a few games in the Zelda series follow a somewhat coherent timeline, whereas others are just their complete and separate story altogether. There are continuity errors in almost all of the games that do occur in some kind of order (ex. OoT and LTP).

 

[Fierce_Deity]

What if a third timeline existed all along (maybe Nintendo was just clever enough). It seems Rauru and Kaepora Gaebora are already aware of a Hero of Time or "tales" of one. Apparently even the Master Sword is by deeming Link too young to be someone that hasn't, supposedly, existed yet. So maybe this "defeated" timeline has already passed by and certain ones are aware of it. Rauru, seems to exist outside of time as he is the only Sage not to be reincarnated/awakened. In other thread someone suggested that perhaps Ganondorf killed Link in the Sacred the Realm, so maybe there is a connection here. Not really any evidence here, just some speculation. Nintendo needs to make a game where the Goddess(es) of Time reunite the timelines so that the confusion can end.

 

[TheGroosenator]

What I don't understand, is how, when Link defeats Ganon/Ganondorf in OoT, he goes back in time, and then all is peaceful. Wouldn't it all get un-done if he goes back in time? Wouldn't he have to do it all over again when he grows up?

 

[TreasureHunter1]

Yeah i think my timeline is correct due to Link going awol in one of the 3 timelines branching off of oot and destroying the world in Links Awakening, lol even the bosses were telling him he was crazy but he used the power of good to destroy the world.. maybe one of the biggest plot twists ever! sponsored by M. Night Shyamalan

 

[Fierce_Deity]

What I don't understand, is how, when Link defeats Ganon/Ganondorf in OoT, he goes back in time, and then all is peaceful. Wouldn't it all get un-done if he goes back in time? Wouldn't he have to do it all over again when he grows up?

If that's how Nintendo viewed time travel within OoT, then yes. Nintendo, to an extent, does view it linear like that but only when Link is pulling the Master Sword. However when Zelda sends Link back, it's different. Via the Goddess of Time she sends Link back to a period before he ever pulled the Master Sword- into a parallel past. So Zelda is left alone and her timeline continues into The Wind Waker. The young Links timeline continues into Twilight Princess. It reminds me a lot of Chrono Cross

 

[Locke]

I think it's bad practice to try to think of ways that the given evidence can not be true just because we don't like it. We're told that the hero is defeated, so we should accept that. Yes, one could hope that the more detailed description of the events will be more satisfying when translated, but right now the basic conclusion is simply what the text says - the hero is defeated. The only alternative I recognize is to argue that this split shows that the Historia timeline doesn't accurately represent the Zelda universe and should be ignored altogether. None of this picking and choosing which revelations fit one's own preconceived notions and which don't.

...and here's the evidence that we need first before forming theories.

ハイラルの衰退と
The Decline of Hyrule and
最後の勇者
The Last Hero

時の勇者リンクは、こともあろうかガノンドロフに敗北する。
ガノンドロフは３つのトライフォースを得て魔王ガノンとなら、後の時代にも世界脋か。
トライフォースをめぐる争いを繰り返し、神の血は薄れ、ハイラル王国は縮小していく。
Link, the hero of time, may be defeated by Ganondorf.
Ganondorf obtained all 3 parts of the Triforce and became the Evil King Ganon, and would then threaten the world.
With repeated disputes over the Triforce, the blood of the gods diminished and the Hyrule Kingdom continues to shrink.

３つのトライフォースを得れ魔王ガノン
The Demon King Ganon gets all 3 pieces of the Triforce

時の勇者リンクは敗北
When Link, the hero of Time, was defeated

力のトライフォースを得て、ゼルダ姫を手中に収めた盗賊ガノンドロフ。時の勇者リンクは、ハイ ラルの存亡を 賭けてこれに挑むが、敗北する。
Ganondorf obtained the Triforce of Power, and Princess Zelda came into Ganondorf's hands. Link, the hero of time, challenged to bet for the fate of Hyrule, but was defeated.

七賢者が魔王ガノンを封印
The Seven Sages Seal the Demon King Ganon

ガノンドロフは、ついにゼルダ姫に宿る知恵のトライフォース、リンクに宿る勇気のトライフォー スを手にして しまった。真の力を得た彼は、魔王ガノンとなる。ゼルダ姫を長とするハイラルの七賢者は、最後 の手段として 、魔王ガノンをトライフォースごと聖地へと封印した。
Ganondorf had finally obtained the Triforce of Wisdom from Princess Zelda and the Triforce of Courage from Link; and had them in hand. The Evil King Ganon had real power. Princess Zelda--the head of the seven sages of Hyrule--as a last resort, sealed the Demon King Ganon to the Holy Land.

The Historia quite clearly describes the split as a "what-if" possibility. There's no getting around that by redefining time travel and the Master Sword. Accept it or reject the split altogether. (I mean, one could accept the split with a different explanation, but one shouldn't then go around saying that one's split is "official".)

 

[Seth]

I don't see the ALttP timeline as a split so much as an alternate reality, one where for one reason or another Link wasn't successful. OoT still creates the two splits into WW and TP, while the 3rd string is a separate continuity.

 

[Whats your name]

but in a link to the past most of the hylian culture is lost and they had to went through the sealing war to imprission him. at least in ww they saved the people even if everything else was lost.

in think they were forced to do a third timeline cuz they didnt thought the timeline mattered until recently but i hated that they used link's death to create the third one

 

[Garo Master]

I don't think Link dies, he just went back in time to being a kid to create a time split. The "defeated hero" timeline is just what happened after all of Ganon's destruction without a Link.

 

[ebilly99]

I still think that the first timeline is if link never traveled into the future. The Sages knew link was to young to fully use the master sword (Maturity not age though) and makes Link sleep for 7 years. Now for the sages to know this they must have seen a future where link tried to battle Ganon at a young age and fail. This is the original (Defeated) timeline