Hyrule Historia Book: A Bunch of Bull?

[TreasureHunter1]

I like Miyamotos foreword. But I'm not enough of a Zelda fan to care about all the nooks and crannies. I just want to play Zelda.

 

[felipe970421]

This post responds to several previous post in here, particularly by Locke

It is true that they paid attention, but very loosely, the timeline "creation" it more or less as follows

TLoZ: Start of the legend
AoL: Direct sequel to the TLoZ, so far pretty simple, with one Link
ALttP: Direct prequel to TLoZ, still a simple thing, two Links now
LA: Direct sequel to ALttP
OoT: Direct prequel to ALttP, their intention? a prequel, but they got conflicts, the ending of OoT does not support the beginning of ALttP, silly move by Nintendo, remember the split is not here yet, the timeline is linear so far, ALttP goes after the Adult ending, they will have to add an unspoken event later (the seal war)
MM: Direct sequel to OoT, but this is (probably unintentionally) the creation of the first split, there are three Links here, Nintendo wasn't paying much attention to the timeline at this time, they probably overlooked these facts
OoX: Direct sequel to ALttP/LA, this one is easy on the theorists (although it created ambiguity in placement before HH)
WW: Direct sequel to OoT adult ending, this ends up conflicting gravely with ALttP, but Nintendo wasn't really paying much attention, maybe someone noticed it and didn't give it importance, this forces a third split, but probably nobody knew that at the time
FS: Almost a spinoff, doesn't relate with anything, later canon will place it before OoT, but it isn't a prequel
FSA: Direct sequel to FS, this is probably its own parallel timeline at this point, but will get annexed to the main thing later
TMC: Direct prequel to FS, not really a complex timeline arc here, three games with no allusions to the rest
TP: Direct sequel to OoT/MM, while complicated in essence, it is really easy to locate and doesn't create (much) ambiguity
PH/ST: Direct sequels to WW, these are almost not worth mentioning
SS: Direct prequel to OoT, and by extension the totality of the games, it also has vague allusions to TMC, joining the two timelines together(if you don't believe check allegories in architecture)

HH: the FSS get crammed in the timeline we used to have, with a weird placement after TP, theories discuss this decision a lot, blablabla. Also, the third split, the downfall, is made official, only god knows when Nintendo realized this split existed, also a bunch of connection confirmed

And that is pretty much how the timeline evolved, Nintendo always had some respect for it while not taking it too seriously.

Geez, I'm tired, thoughts?

 

[Smoore]

Without wanting to wade through seven pages of argument and dialog and only wanting to comment on the first post, here are my thoughts.

Personaly, I strongly believe the timeline and some connections between games that were stated in the Hyrule Historia book that was released in Japan a couple of weeks ago are false. I have a set group of reasons of why the timeline and some of the connections stated in this book are false. Also, be aware there are several spoilers in this post. Read at your own risk.

I completely agree. The timeline portion of Hyrule Historia seemed shoddily thrown together and lacking any real creativity. With the exception of the Sleeping Zelda overlapping with The Legend of Zelda, each game was treated as a separate unit without any significant tie-ins to other titles. Often the origin stories were overlooked.

1) The Triple Spilt- The timelines all of us zelda fans have created over the years have been full of trying to connect things that HAPPENED in the games to what happened in other games. This is how the timeline spilt was created. We look at the ending of OoT, and see Link defeat Ganon and seal him in the Sacred Realm. Alright, so this is one side of the timeline. All of a sudden, Princess Zelda decides to send Link back in time so he can relive his childhood. The last scene of OoT is Link going to Princess Zelda as a child. We do not know what happened when he went to see Zelda at the time of the games release. He could have turned evil and went to kill her. Who knew? However, upon the release of Twilight Princess, we see that Ganondorf was sent to be executed by the sages. Now fans have made the connection between the two and have suggested that Link told Princess Zelda what Ganondorf was going to do, and thus she sent Ganondorf to be executed. Alright, we now have the timeline spilt. What? No way! Wow that's a surprise. I just read in this Hyrule Historia book that while we weren't looking during the game, Link died. :shake: Going back to the first sentence of this paragraph, the timeline is based on things that HAPPENED in the games, not what can be guessed to happen in games. This is why the timeline does not spilt into three, it remains spilt into two.

This is the only part that I do like about it because I have never seen a convincing timeline that fully connected A Link to the Past to the end of Twilight Princess. Rather than being killed at some random point in the game, though, I think that Link was killed during his seven-year slumber. Somehow, Ganondorf managed to destroy the Master Sword chamber, effectively either killing Link or sealing him in the Sacred Realm. While this is still conjecture and not actually in any game, it at least seems cooler than him simply being killed somewhere.

2) Placement of Four Swords Adventure- For those of you who have played Four Swords Adventure, and maybe for those who have heard about it, you know that in this game, Ganon teams up with Vaati to try and create Darkness that will spread the land. This game had a truly epic ending, in which you had to take down the two main enemies of the Zelda series back-to-back. We learn that this game is a sequel to Four Swords, so the inclusion of Vaati is reasoned. In the Hyrule Historia book, the placement of Four Swords Adventures is after Twilight Princess in the child timeline. Now, the placement of it behind Twilight Princess can be reasoned, so that is not my problem. My problem with is what's after it in the timeline. Guess what? It ends the childs timeline. This is quite impossible. In Four Swords Adventures, Link learns that Ganon acquired The Trident, an item that is said to fill its holder with evil power. It quite obviously did this to Ganondorf, giving him even more evil power then he already had. However, the Trident was said to do something else to Ganondorf. Once Ganondorf in his human form grabbed the Trident, he turned into Ganon, and as long as he had the Trident, he would remain in his Ganon form. In most of the games Ganon is featured in, he is in his Ganon form, and has this Trident. This means these games must come after Four Swords Adventures. Examples of games where Ganon is in his Ganon form and has The Trident would be A Link to the Past, Oracle of Ages, and Oracle of Seasons. Also, if you have ever seen artwork of Ganon from the original Legend of Zelda, he is drawn with The Trident. Yes these could be coincidences, but in creating the perfect timeline, you have to go with whatever you see. I see Ganon getting the Trident in Four Swords Adventures, and then having it in other games. :nod: This is why Four Swords Adventures has to come before most notably A Link to the Past and the Oracle games, and it cannot end the child timeline. To add one more point to why Four Swords Adventures in falsely placed, in the Hyrule Historia timeline grid, it says "Ganondorf reincarnated" beside Four Swords Adventures. However, I do not remember any part in that game where it said Ganondorf was sealed and broke free. *This final sentence I literally made up while I was typing, (about the Ganondorf reincarnated) so if you remember that in the game it did say he broke free of a seal or someone along those lines, feel free to post below about it*

Ganondorf being reincarnated isn't so unusual (he is reincarnated once in the Third Split with two other failed attempts). But I agree that the best placement of this game isn't after Twilight Princess. I think that it should follow Four Swords as a direct sequel and precede Ocarina of Time by 50-70 years. (See my signature for my version of the timeline.) The Zuna, a self-exiled tribe stemming from the Interlopers prior to Demise's original sealing by Hylia, reforge the Dark Master Sword into the Trident and channel what remains of Demise's fractured spirit into the weapon. Then they keep it safe in their temple for centuries, where Demise slowly begins to recover strength. In the meantime, Vaati comes and goes in The Minish Cap and Four Swords.

A young Gerudo lad, heir to the throne of this yet-peaceful tribe, becomes disheartened over the state of his people living in the harsh desert winds. He hears rumors of an ancient weapon of great evil in the deep desert that could allow him to make war with Hyrule to find better land for his people. He seeks the Zunas, its guardians, who inadvertently tell him of its whereabouts. Ganondorf enters the temple and steals the weapon. The spirit of Demise is strengthened by Ganondorf's pride, and Ganondorf is infused with Demise's spirit—becoming the Demon King. When Ganondorf returns to his people, they reject him because of his great evil. Realizing that they will not fight with him, he works to weaken the Vaati's seal. Once Link frees Vaati, Ganondorf uses him as a decoy while he himself builds up his power. By the time Vaati is destroyed, Ganondorf has fully transformed into Ganon the Beast. Yet Link still defeats him.

(Note: Between this time at the Unification War, the Zoras migrate from Labrynna along with a young Jabu-Jabu and temporarily exorcise the River Zoras from the land.) Ganondorf is temporarily banished into the Four Sword, but his power is too great to be contained. Near the beginning of the Unification War, Ganondorf frees himself from his prison while Hyrule is too focused on the insurrection to notice. He returns to his people, who have become thieves and outlaws during their half-century without a king. Seeing his new-found power, the Gerudos welcome him back as king. Ganondorf approaches the King of Hyrule to make terms of peace. (The king heard only secondhand accounts of when his grandmother Zelda was kidnapped by Vaati and Ganon. He does not make the connection now.)

With this hypothetical backstory to Ocarina of Time, it now makes sense why the king would suddenly listen to Zelda's oracle against Ganondorf once Link has returned from the future. He didn't listen to her before, so why would he listen just because a Kokiri boy appears and validates her theory with a wild story of time travel and children taking on demons? It is because their combined story spurs a secret investigation into the Gerudo monarchy, and the King of Hyrule realizes that this is the same man as some fifty years prior.

That is my take on it, and why Four Swords Adventures works best between Four Swords and Ocarina of Time. Thus, when we get to A Link to the Past and stories of the soldiers of Hyrule fighting against Ganondorf, yet seeing only Link in Ocarina of Time, we realize that the soldiers fought him in the first half of the war, and Link fought him but failed in the second. Over the ages, the two halves of the war and their fifty-year interlude became blurred into one event.

3) Four Sword Trilogy- The Four Sword Trilogy is the three games that feature the Four Sword. Fours Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and The Minish Cap are the three games. Vaati is the main enemy is all of these three games; however sharing a co-main enemy with Ganon in Four Swords Adventures. Anyways, we know the timeline order of these games because of they seem to fit so perfectly with each other. The Minish Cap was the creation of the Four Sword, and the first seal of Vaati in it. Following it is Four Swords, where Vaati breaks free, and Link seals him in the Four Sword again. Last but not least is Four Swords Adventure, where Link finally kills Vaati instead of sealing him away, but Link has to seal Ganon in the Four Sword this time. Now, in the Hyrule Historia's timeline, these three games are separated from each other. Now, that is clearly not right on its own, considering that the Link from Four Swords and the Link from Four Swords Adventures are clearly the same Link, they have to go after each other in the timeline. My evidence of the fact that there are the same Link is that in Four Swords Adventures, the game begins with Zelda feeling like the seal on Vaati has been weakened. She decides to go check it out, and guess who she decides is a good idea to join her? Link. This is clearly telling us that Zelda already knows Link, and how do most Zeldas from the zelda series know Link? Well, its because most of the time Link saved them. Now, if this is the cause, it is hinting that this Link saved Zelda at one point or another. Hey, remember in the prequel to this game, Four Swords, didn't Link save Zelda? This is clearly telling us that the Four Swords Adventures Link was the one that sealed him in the first place, and this is why Zelda already knows who he is. It makes sense complete sense. Back to my thought, if they are the same Link, then that means they cannot be separeted in the timeline by three games and possibly thousands of years! They have to come next to each other. Period.

I completely agree with this. I don't have a reference, but I believe that at one point Nintendo even confirmed this.

4) Hero's Shade- Earlier today, ZD posted a newpost about a couple of lines of text that had been translated from the Hyrule Historia book. These lines basically summarize the end of the speculation on the Hero's Shade from Twilight Princess being Link from OoT. It has been confirmed by this book to be true. In Twilight Princess, the Hero's Shade will teach Link seven sword moves that are titled, "The Seven Hidden Skills". Hidden could refer to be lost in time, or completely new moves created by the Hero's Shade himself. Either way, the Hero's Shade clearly needs to have been able to master these skills himself. Now, think to yourself. Did the Link from Ocarina of Time ever do any of the seven Hidden Skills? Let's go through them. 1) Ending Blow- No 2) Shield Bash- No 3) Back Slice- No 4) Helm Spiltter- No 5) Mortal Draw- No 6) Jump Strike- No 7) Great Spin Attack- Arguable. The OoT Link did none of the seven hidden skills. Yes it is possible that he learned them while searching for Navi in the forest, but that cannot be proven. However, what can be proven and has been seen with every zelda fans own eyes is the fact that the Link from Skyward Sword does two of these seven Hidden Skills, the Ending Bloe and the Shield Bash. It is clearly more likely that the Hero's Shade is Skyward Sword's Link apart from OoT's Link.

Again, I agree. One point to mention is that the Skyward Sword Link is the true Hero of Time. He is never referred to as that in-game, but he truly conquers time to save Hyrule. The Link in Ocarina of Time really is a pawn of time, if anything. The former Link is definitely more deserving of the title. So in my estimation, the Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time—just not the one from Ocarina of Time.

Overall, I strongly believe this book does not reveal the true zelda timeline or has any fact to it at all. One thing you have to remember about the world we live in today is that the main goal for everybody whenever they are making something that can be sold is to make money. Clearly by putting in there variation of the timeline and putting it in a nice book with official artwork clearly is just a way to make money, and not to show the real zelda timeline. If Nintendo wanted to reveal the real zelda timeline, I believe they would do it with honour. I believe they would announce it, and not sell it. I also believe they would translate it to every language in this world so that everybody could read it without having translation doubts. This is what I believe would happen if the real zelda timeline was revealed; not by a book.

Exactly. While I disagree with you about the Third Split, on all other counts I think the timeline was sloppily thrown together. It may have been published, but it does not live up to the caliber of the games upon which it is based. Specifically concerning Four Swords Adventures, I will not accept it until Nintendo releases a sequel game with Ganondorf being released from the Four Sword.

 

[Dio]

Hyrule Historia is official and as far as I'm concerned whatever it says is fact unless anything is retconned at a later date.

 

[ENA-three!]

ok...where can i get this book at? ive looked everywhere!

 

[felipe970421]

ok...where can i get this book at? ive looked everywhere!

Translation at glitterberri, it's the only way you're getting it in english

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

i think the official timeline is way more better than ocarinahero10's timeline

 

[PokaLink]

1. Ok, yes its true they randonly said by chance Link lost, however it worked perfectly, Link dies and the sealing war starts, then comes A Link to the Past were Hyrule is in a moment of peace.

2. Whos to say that during the sealing war before ALttP somehow Ganondorf persued a weapon that he could use to fully take over Hyrule, sending troops to find the Trident, wich is specualted to be the sword in SS Demise has, since it has the same color, design, and gem, and therefore a legendary weapon, wich he evuntily finds and is sealed with.

3. I always presumed the MC Link is the FS Link, in MC he is best freinds with Zelda and would be informed if anything happend in otherwords were in FS she tells him of danger. And in FSA its states "Long Ago there was a wind sorcorer named vaati," wich would mean a legend has been passed down of Vaati, wich means FSA could not be a sequel to FS, or they would say, Vaati has been yet again released, but it did say that first he was sealed once and a temple was built around him, and then he was released again kidnapped Zeldas freind Link saved her, oviously a reference to FS, then everybody thought there was peace, until.... wich means peace from Vaai i would presume not Ganondorf.

4. The heros shade was probably given the power to live on and protect Hyrule by the gods right? Well in the time between MM and TP he could have easily learned 7 skills, since oviosuly some time has passed, since there are more modern citys, diffrent regions and more extinct races.

I actualy havent found a valid argument why the timeline is wrong, some things barely contridict eachother but can be resolved if you disraguard Nintendo said a couple things and take in the fact why some legends sound diffrent then the game they are supposed to folow is a legend can be sometimes messed up.

 

[Locke]

3. I always presumed the MC Link is the FS Link, in MC he is best freinds with Zelda and would be informed if anything happend in otherwords were in FS she tells him of danger. And in FSA its states "Long Ago there was a wind sorcorer named vaati," wich would mean a legend has been passed down of Vaati, wich means FSA could not be a sequel to FS, or they would say, Vaati has been yet again released, but it did say that first he was sealed once and a temple was built around him, and then he was released again kidnapped Zeldas freind Link saved her, oviously a reference to FS, then everybody thought there was peace, until.... wich means peace from Vaai i would presume not Ganondorf.

Legends say that when mighty Vaati
attacked, a hero arose and saved the
people from destruction. They go on to
say that by using this sword, the one
was as four, and the four combined
their strength! Let's check the seal...

MC and FS are separated by a great amount of time, sufficient for the "hero" to become legend.

While I'm at it, I'll bring up FSA's manual again:

Long ago in the inner reaches of Hyrule, an evil wind sorcerer known as
Vaati began kidnapping beautiful young maidens, one after another.

This hasn't happened in any game. It's describing an event that takes place long before FS (but after MC).

Nobody could stop Vaati, and the people of Hyrule despaired. Then, a brave
young warrior carrying only a single sword appeared.

When the young lad took out his sword, he split into four separate
beings. The legends say that these four beings worked as one
and defeated Vaati.

The wanderer, united once again, imprisoned
Vaati deep in Hyrule and sealed the
prison with his own sword. This place
became known as the Realm of the
Four Sword.

Note how it's "a brave young warrior", "the young lad", "these four beings", and "the wanderer".

After that, a long time passed.

Then, the wind sorcerer Vaati broke out of his prison and then snatched
Princess Zelda of Hyrule.

Zelda's childhood friend, a young boy named Link, claimed the strange
power of the Four Sword and fought Vaati fiercely. In the end, he succeeded
in sealing Vaati away once again.

Now, instead of Maidens, it's Zelda. Instead of an arbitrary hero, it's "a young boy named Link". This is FS.

And so, peace was restored to Hyrule once again.

Or so everyone thought...

It doesn't mention the passage of time. Also, recall that this is FSA's manual, referring to FS-Link by name. It's the same character in both games.





...but HH says otherwise. Oh well.