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How Would You Turn Zelda into a Mature Franchise?

Many of us want a 'mature' Zelda game but what exactly do those who want a mature Zelda installment mean?

Do those of you who want a mature Zelda title just want blood, violence and sexual overtones? Or does it run deeper with perhaps a political narrative with characters carrying out questionable actions regardless of their leaning towards good and evil?

In short, if you are one of the many who want a mature Zelda installment, this is your chance to tell us how you'd do it.
 

izi

Not A Wizard
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
Los Angeles
No sexual undertones, that would ruin Zelda from the moment it happened.
If anything, a deeper story, with, as you said, characters carrying out questionable actions. I think that a very deep and political story would actually be good for the franchise: open it up to the older, "hardcore" players that Nintendo is trying to attract back with the Wii U. With that said, I'd like Nintendo to keep in mind that Zelda is also in the hearts of young ones, so a disturbing story could damage them; a story that's deep and dark on the inside but welcome and friendly on the outside (oh, hey Majora's Mask!) would be hard to accomplish, but ideal.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
Call me shallow if you will, but the way I'd make Zelda into a mature franchise is merely through the simple blood and sexual overtones route. Now, Zelda series wasn't and isn't particularly known for its deep plot, however I think a tale of questionable methods of achieving good/evil would suit the series well. Some characters in the series have been hypersexualized or at least that was the mindset (immediate example? Telma from Twilight Princess), and the series is also trying to get more romantic as the games go by. Why not have some sexuality, or at least sensuality, within the series?

Blood would be another facet that the series already has in concept; TP got a T rating in part because of Ganondorf's white blood among other things. Even if the art style were that of The Wind Waker's, the series could grab blood and dash it in every corner of the game world! Hardly anything would change!
 

vengenz

Sheikah Warrior
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
No sexual undertones, that would ruin Zelda from the moment it happened.
If anything, a deeper story, with, as you said, characters carrying out questionable actions. I think that a very deep and political story would actually be good for the franchise: open it up to the older, "hardcore" players that Nintendo is trying to attract back with the Wii U. With that said, I'd like Nintendo to keep in mind that Zelda is also in the hearts of young ones, so a disturbing story could damage them; a story that's deep and dark on the inside but welcome and friendly on the outside (oh, hey Majora's Mask!) would be hard to accomplish, but ideal.

THIS. Couldn't have said it better.
I think not a mature franchise but more teen. Too much change for adult view could ruin it.

No sexual undertones, although blood could be awesome. Not too gory though, that would scar younger viewers.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
I wouldn't do much, because I don't want THAT mature of a game. I like Zelda the way it is. I just want it to not feel like Nick Jr.. Just because Link isn't ripping people's eyes out and raping them in the skull doesn't mean I want to feel like a patronized child.

We don't need anything huge or gory on the game....just treat us like mature adults, please.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
What makes LoZ childish to me is the fact that the darkness threatening Hyrule never seems to be so bad and the reasons characters do stuff is never explained. There are no casualties and the good guys always remain unharmed and defeat the bad guy for good. So to make it more mature I'd like to see some more deaths, They don't have to be bloody or disgusting, They just need to send a clear message of how much of a threat the villain is and show us that things don't always go as planned. The story should also tell us more deeply why characters want to help or destroy Hyrule, Is it because they got heartbroken, lost a loved one, want political power, religious? etc.

Sexual overtones Zelda could do with or without, Depending if the game we are talking about has a love story or not. If there is one it's pretty childish to assume that Link would only hold hands and walk into the sunset with his love interest, So if I were the write I'd add some more action in there, possibly even a baby and make the story revolve around that too..?
 

Dragoncat

Twilit wildcat: Aerofelis
Blood would be ok. TP already had it. I agree with Zorth to a certain extent, I wouldnt mind the villain killing someone, nor would I mind Link finally getting some. It's implied that him and Zelda start the royal bloodline together after SS, but thats after the story. I don't want, however, a cutscene that looks like it came out of a porno. That would kill the family friendly image the series has. Don't show the kid being made, show it running around causing trouble if the story requires it to be old enough to walk and talk. Or don't include it at all and let fans come up with how the offspring turns out, which already happens.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
I don't think Nintendo should aim for maturity. It naturally springs from good writing and good integration of the player into the world (here's where The Wind Waker excelled). Zelda stories tend to be thematic, their worlds extensive, and their music emotive, which is a great recipe for maturity. Ocarina of Time, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, and The Wind Waker are mature games, and I wouldn't mind another Zelda game with the sort of balance those exhibited. To be honest, though, I think of most Zelda games as mature, and am hard-pressed to find an immature one. Even my least favorite Zelda game (Twilight Princess), while clumsy in its presentation, isn't as immature as something like God of War.

Ocarina of Time, especially, is a game I have come to appreciate as I have gotten older; there is an undercurrent of loss and nostalgia, something few children really understand. And there's nuance to the universally appealing, simple plot. It's not always easy to strike that chord, but Ocarina of Time does it beautifully.

If there's one thing I suppose they could change, it's to decrease the amount of hand-holding. The Wind Waker was an entirely linear game, and it worked there, but since then, the games have gotten even more restrictive, sidekicks more patronizing, the plot more cumbersome. Sometimes I really did feel like the developers of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword assumed I was an idiot or very young because the games moved so slowly and the plot and characters weren't built naturally into their world, but rather forced onto the player through ridiculously long cutscenes that went nowhere fast. That said, I still liked Skyward Sword and found parts of Twilight Princess engaging, so even this doesn't rob Zelda games of maturity or cut into their positive aspects. It's just a childish trend in modern games that should have stayed out of Zelda games.

What makes LoZ childish to me is the fact that the darkness threatening Hyrule never seems to be so bad and the reasons characters do stuff is never explained. There are no casualties and the good guys always remain unharmed and defeat the bad guy for good. So to make it more mature I'd like to see some more deaths, They don't have to be bloody or disgusting, They just need to send a clear message of how much of a threat the villain is and show us that things don't always go as planned. The story should also tell us more deeply why characters want to help or destroy Hyrule, Is it because they got heartbroken, lost a loved one, want political power, religious? etc.

I don't mind a certain amount of explanation, but sometimes things are better left unexplained. I think Ganondorf's motivations were made clear enough even before The Wind Waker, and with The Wind Waker (whether he was lying or not), there was ample explanation. "Deep" villains can be good, but we're not rooting for them and Link likely doesn't have access to a huge well of information on them, so sometimes it's better to leave some things to the imagination.

As for deaths, well, Zelda games tend to have plenty of deaths. I can't remember one in Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess, but A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask were all fairly blatant about the doom and gloom brought on by their villains, and death played a part in this. The Wind Waker is the most dramatic example. Not only is a kingdom wiped out of existence, but there are plenty of implied deaths in the opening, and one particular character's sacrifice at the end of the game is moving. It's an example of a story that uses death effectively.

Even if these games hadn't had deaths, they would have worked just fine.

But I do like how Ocarina of Time was a bit more subtle. We didn't see many deaths on-screen (though the inaugural death of the Deku Tree was immesurably powerful), but the sheer terror and desperation caused by Ganondorf's reign was implied visually. The Hyrule Child Link becomes familiar with is very different from Adult Link's Hyrule. A Link to the Past doesn't really hit me the same way, but from a design perspective, the Dark World takes a similar approach. This is far better than killing off a few characters for the hell of it.

Why not have some sexuality, or at least sensuality, within the series?

Well, the main characters in Zelda games are often children, so that would be creepy.

Even with older characters, I think betraying the innocence of Link and Zelda is one of the things a Zelda game just shouldn't do. Sexuality and sensuality are not associated with innocence in most modern cultures, but this is one thing that consistently divides Link from his adversaries, which often represent corruption. It could betray a core theme that's best left unchanged. The romance tends to work fine without sexuality, too--Link and Marin from LA and Link and Zelda from SS had love stories that I could actually believe in, even if in both cases there wasn't much physicality to the relationships.

Furthermore, it's just unnecessary. It wouldn't add anything, and would possibly limit the audience. If people really want to sexualize these characters, I'm sure there's plenty of fanfiction for that.
 
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Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I don't really want to see a "Mature" "M for Money" Zelda.

However, if I were to make a Zelda title that's "Mature" - I'd say, look at my fan fiction. I pretty much do that all the time with my fan fiction, and unlike most fanfic writers, it's not overtly sexual. My stories try to add a little realism (realistic injuries, blood) and tend to touch on philosohpical things / thinkage.

For example, in any given Zelda game, you're supposed to kill monsters and not think too hard about it. Link goes along from one task to another. In my stories, he tends to think about the blood he's shed and it comes up in dialogue and thought. I'd have more "thinking" stuff like the costs of war, moral dilemmas and whatnot.

You don't need to have sex and entrails to make something "mature." In fact, if a story is more "thoughtful" about itself, I find that more mature.
 

Xinnamin

Mrs. Austin
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Location
clustercereal
I find it kind of funny how "mature" games seem to equate to blood, violence, and sex.

If we're talking about "mature" as in "adult", as in violent with possible sexual undertones, Zelda isn't that kind of franchise and never should be.

If we're talking about "mature" as in "not immature", it already is. This kind of maturity is mostly a storytelling and characterization thing, and Zelda already has plenty of thought provoking, mature, well written characters. Take WW's KoRL and Ganondorf, OoT's Zelda, or every single important character in MM, and others. Take the themes of "what reality really is" from LA, "inevitability of death and importance of friendship" from MM, "sacrifice and letting go of the past" from WW, "absolute power corrupts absolutely" in MC, etc. There is already plenty for a mature audience to digest.

If we're talking about "mature" as in "not kiddy", perhaps not highlighting important dialog in bright colors would be nice, or stuff like, you know, not stopping to tell us "press A to open this door". But that's almost entirely a gameplay mechanic problem that I feel like could be easily solved by just adding a difficulty setting.

Honestly, I don't even know why people complain about Zelda being not mature, unless they are talking about either the art style (which is kind of a shallow reason), or the lack of adult content (to which I ask why such content is necessary or beneficial).
 

Mangachick14

Nerdy and Proud
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Location
Behind My Computer Monitor
ok, I would SO NOT be okay with sex scenes, but I mean, some handholding/kissing wouldn't hurt anyone. blood and gore wouldn't really bother me, but I don't really think it's necessary. I'd probably just go with darker undertones (ahem... MAJORA'S MASK).
 

Turo602

Vocare Ad Pugnam
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Location
Gotham City
Since when does an M-rating equate to immaturity? Plenty of series have M-ratings without all the stereotypical sex, drugs, and senseless violence. Mature, when it comes to video games, refers to content not suitable for children. To call The Legend of Zelda an already mature franchise, is taking the meaning out of context. It's like calling The Lion King an R-rated flick.

Whenever I think of a mature Zelda title, I think of something a little grittier and realistic in style. A darker tale than usual that holds more emotion and meaning, and presents itself in a serious manner. The reason I want to see something like this, is not because it's "cool" or "in", but because The Legend of Zelda is diverse enough, that it could pull off such a concept. In my head, it's still the same old adventurous, puzzle-filled, unique experience every Zelda game has offered, but an evolution of that. Fluid animations, larger character models, improved mechanics, and whatnot. I want a more natural look and experience. I strive for realism because I find it more relatable, while really showing us the seriousness of the issues presented. I want enemies to look menacing, even frightening at times. Don't get me wrong, this isn't what I'd want the future of the series to be, more of a one time deal. Until Nintendo comes up with the next artistic style, basically.
 
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Hanyou

didn't build that
Since when does an M-rating equate to immaturity? Plenty of series have M-ratings without all the stereotypical sex, drugs, and senseless violence.

No one has argued that it does.

Mature, when it comes to video games, refers to content not suitable for children. To call The Legend of Zelda an already mature franchise, is taking the meaning out of context. It's like calling The Lion King an R-rated flick.

That's not what "mature" usually means, though, and why on earth would games be an exception to the universal definition? Honestly, the "mature content" description is limited and not applicable to very much.

And while The Lion King isn't R-rated, it's certainly more mature than a good number of R rated films. It's not exceptionally mature. For that argument, just look to a majority of Pixar films (chiefly Wall-E, Toy Story, and Up) and, more importantly, Studio Ghibli. A good number of their films are kid-friendly, even about childhood. They're also mature (with the notable exception of Ponyo) in almost every sense of the word.

Whenever I think of a mature Zelda title, I think of something a little grittier and realistic in style. A darker tale than usual that holds more emotion and meaning, and presents itself in a serious manner. The reason I want to see something like this, is not because it's "cool" or "in", but because The Legend of Zelda is diverse enough, that it could pull off such a concept.

I actually respect this view, and I think the series could totally handle a darker and grittier entry. That said, simple stories and bright colors are one of the near-essential elements in Zelda games. I'm willing to put up with a lot of changes (I've defended guns and a futuristic setting, even!), but the "realistic" angle just seems to deviate a bit too far for me. I don't mind a universe with its own rules, but the universe Hyrule inhabits is entirely unrealistic. That will never change, and a game that attempts to be overly realistic can not only act as something of a betrayal, but can create a dissonance between tone and actual content.

In other words, that ship has sailed.

As for serious issues, Zelda games have artfully tackled a whole range of them. I related my own experience with Ocarina of Time. While I'm sure that game reaches different people on different levels, few games that get credit for being "mature" are so resourceful in their presentation. Every aspect of that game's design funnels the player into an exploration of specific themes. I can't speak for GaroXicon, but he's written extensively on the hero's journey in Zelda titles. Intentionally or not, these games are deep, and their depth is never so overt as to be childish. You need to dig in and invest yourself to find it, but it's there. Every element of their design hints at their major themes.

In my head, it's still the same old adventurous, puzzle-filled, unique experience every Zelda game has offered, but an evolution of that. Fluid animations, larger character models, improved mechanics, and whatnot. I want a more natural look and experience. I strive for realism because I find it more relatable, while really showing us the seriousness of the issues presented. I want enemies to look menacing, even frightening at times. Don't get me wrong, this isn't what I'd want the future of the series to be, more of a one time deal. Until Nintendo comes up with the next artistic style, basically.

I like the "one time deal" thing. Nintendo has a tendency to throw things at the wall and see what sticks with Zelda games, and I'm fine with that. That said, I think we got a small taste of it in Twilight Princess, and it didn't work out so well. That's my opinion, and that game's success might speak volumes about the fact that it's a minority opinion.

Let me add that I'm not biased against a sort of realism. A few of my favorite games, including Myst, Morrowind, and Shenmue, take place in somewhat believable universes with realistic design elements. I'm just not so sure charging full speed ahead in that direction is right for Zelda. It may be as ill-suited to the Zelda franchise as George Lucas's over-the-line cartoonish prequels were ill-suited to Star Wars, an already cartoony (but not quite that ridiculous) series.

It's about tonal consistency: how far you can push things before they just come crumbling down.

And in any case, it wouldn't make Zelda more mature than it already is, any more than a "realistic" Pixar film would top Up.
 
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