General Zelda How Would You Incease Difficulty?

[balloonofwar4]

Ok. Listen. No matter how much we beg, how many times we wish, Nintendo will do what they perceive to be best for the series. We all may not like it, but if we truly are Zelda fans we will have to deal with it. Now I don't always agree with DarkestLink, but at least he was realistic and civil.

I came into the series with TP. *gasp* Does that mean I am not a true Zelda fan? Does that mean I want all Zelda games to be easy? Of course I don't. Would you like someone to tell you that you are not a fan of children because you never saw the first one(kind of a different situation but you get the point)? Nintendo can not, and will not, sell to those who perceive themselves as "the oldest and truest". The will sell to their biggest buying audience.

I mean no offense to anybody, I just am trying to say what will happen. I agree with many of the things Jade said Nintendo is doing wrong, but the bottom line is that we cannot do anything about what Nintendo decides to do. If Zelda dies, it dies.

 

[Ventus]

Whoa, whoa. I don't think Zelda is anywhere CLOSE to dying. And I'm not a true Zelda fan; I only truly love the Oracles backwards, with OoT and MM acting as one game to be my "favorite" and my "best" Zelda title. But, my opinion is that Nintendo needs to stop treating Zelda like a pet project and more like it could possibly sell some. Now, I'm not saying treat Zelda like it's Mario - it clearly isn't - but do somethings that would easily grab some players. Superduperhyperrealistic graphics will help, or at close as you possibly can get to it (they would be foolhardy not to go with Wii U Tech Demo tbh). Difficulty, however, doesn't meana game will or will not sell. D:

 

[ILU]

Better AI. Better AI. Better AI. Better AI. Better AI. Better AI. Better AI.

I cannot stress this enough. I don't know if Nintendo just doesn't have strong enough engines, strong enough consoles to handle strong engines, or capable programmers.... but whatever the reason, there is a problem with enemy AI that I personally feel Nintendo has been acknowledging but ignoring. The last time I was impressed by enemy AI in a Zelda game was in TWW, but maybe that's just because the enemies were programmed to simply do a wider variety of actions than actually responding intelligently.... I'm not sure.

Since then, I haven't seen much aside from gimmicks, especially in Skyward Sword. However, as I've mentioned in another post, they were on the right track with Lizalfos, but they didn't really improve much from enemies in past games. Again, it might just be a case of a wider variety of responsive reactions rather than something like "sensing" the player through respective "senses" like smell or hearing. Usually, in most games, those are just based on spacial differences between the models, but it IS possible to make it so that, say, echoing footsteps would cause an enemy to react or go into a seek function at a greater distance compared to being in a noisy environment where your steps wouldn't be so easily "heard".

Of course, that's just an example, but it ties into dungeon design where you may need to be stealthy or quick. Maybe an enemy can "see" in the dark better than you. It shouldn't always be about exploiting a weak point somewhere on the enemy. Of course, that's always useful and fun, especially when combined with the above (or similar things), but relying heavily on it only makes the game eventually feel repetitive and the the enemies feel weaker, and that was a big pet peeve of mine in Skyward Sword.

<3<3<3 For reading so far.

Now, like I said, it ties into bigger things. Dungeons most definitely should be less linear.... IMO, I should say. Know what I miss? Having to pull up the map. LIKE A REAL EXPLORER OMG! Right? Right. You should get lost. Of course there are degrees to which this should be tolerated, but come on, you're supposed to be searching for something. I hear so much whining about people wanting MOAR REALS IN SELDA, but it's not all about visuals. Exploring, maybe getting a little turned around... yeah, that's realistic! It's something I feel is important to any adventure game.

And then there is a need for more battle techniques.... WITHOUT having to perform a Darunia ballet in my living room and WITHOUT having to perform a combo reminiscent of a Mortal Kombat challenge. Wii Motion Plus really makes this possible, so I'm disappointed that combat in SS focused more on poking eyeballs out. (I realize I'm picking on SS here, but it's got the most recent examples. I still like the game.) I don't know HOW they'd do it since I'm not a professional, but I am sure it CAN be done and SHOULD be done. I shouldn't be able to flail about and easily clear the room. While WMP has a lot of potential, I feel like a regular controller is the best choice for this... again, without pressing a million buttons. KNOW WHAT WAS COOL?! Link in Soul Calibur II. YES I just contradicted myself.. SCII had a lot of combos, but you actually didn't have to press that much. Something a little less button-crazy, just a little less, might be pretty fun, and pair this up with the NEED FOR BETTER AI I mentioned to begin with, difficulty would definitely increase. It'd increase, it'd have variety, and it'd be a lot more fun. IMO, anyway.

 

[Sydney]

I get that people here think that this little forum is representative of the entirety of Zelda fans[...]

We may not represent ALL Zelda fans, but we sure as hell represent some of them. Some of us have ideas that could make the games worse, and others vice-versa.

I'm sorry to say, as much as YOU think you know what would sell well, and YOU think you know what makes a better game, the people at Nintendo, the creators of Zelda, these are professionals.

So what if the creators of the franchise are professionals? Not only are some of the fans professionals themselves, but some of us have genuinely good ideas to present that could benefit the franchise in a huge way.

THEY know what they are doing, and 99 times out of 100, your idea is going to be worse than theirs.

Where do you think they get most of their ideas? Do you think they just randomly pop into their heads? Us, the fans, offer them astounding ideas all the time. They look to US for inspiration. Not only that, but they look to other video games -- other franchises for ideas as well. So 99 times out of 100, our ideas are going to INSPIRE them.

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To answer the OP, there are many ways to increase difficulty in a Zelda game. The game should progressively get more difficult on its own at first, but post game is where you can add additional options to adjust the difficulty. There's options such as Master Quest and Hero Mode, which I think were pretty decent. Then of course you could implement a level selection (i.e. Easy, Medium and Hard). If I had to pick one, I'd go with something similar to Master Quest.

 

[DarkestLink]

When did Nintendo go to the fans for ideas outside of TP?

Anyway, for all my harping on pro-linearity, I will admit I do kinda miss pulling out my map. It really does depend on how it's done though...I don't like randomly searching through dungeons just looking without thinking or solving puzzles...but in some cases...like the Water Temple, this can be very rewarding. In SS, we got a revival of the dungeon map, but in a different way...and it was pretty cool. I'd like to see the map being used again mainly just to see how it'd be handled in this current day. If they combine the way we used map in games like OoT and how they used it in SS, we could be in for a very...interesting and fresh experience.

 

[snakeoiltanker]

Okay, sorry for the "Kid" remark... my bad, and DL you make good points, when it comes to a Business standpoint, but i think thats where Nintendo has went wrong, cuz well.... sells have decline year after year since OoT. And this is not just with Zelda, however like you said Mario Kart Wii sold a butt ton, but you realize Mario Kart Wii was not only mario kart with motion controls as an options, which in a driving game is always desirable, it was literally a collection of ALL the Mario Kart game thrown in one! and is mario. All im saying is that Maybe Nintendo has lost their way with a lot of things, just as the rest of the Japanese gaming! Minus Sony and their PS3 sells, but they dont make games, those are made by other studios in the west with a sony label on them if first party

As far as this thread topic, where as difficulty being lower makes the game accessible to EVERYONE, its definitely and obviously not the best for Zelda. Someone said i need to get over the "glory days" of Zelda, I dont recall ever saying i have disliked a single zelda game..... ever! Do i think the quality in design has declined.... ah, i wouldn't say the Quality in the Design is bad, but execution of the Design has been handled poorly (in my opinion, these arent facts people). And a lot of this i blame on difficulty. When you make a game for EVERYONE, you make a game for NO ONE! do i need to explain what i mean by that. Mario is the Nintendo Brand, yes those games should be easy for everyone to pick up and play. Zelda is a title drivin by and kept alive by ITS FANS! Go talk to Normal people who dont fill their day with video games like we do. a lot of them havent even played a Zelda game! but i bet they know a good bit about Mario, or sonic, or, God of War, okay ill throw halo in there too with CoD...ewww.

what im getting at is that Zelda is a series that caters really, only to a select few type of gamers, we are adventurers! Games like Zelda are Longer titles that take more effort to complete, and unless your a fan of Zelda, or they finally make a REALLY good zelda game, not a lot of people are gonna sit and play it, so quit making it for them. Make the game for the people who are gonna play it. Zelda has a market, and the as you guys say Casual Market, has proved to not be the right place for Zelda.

So i say up the difficulty, mainly through enemy AI, as those idiots literally line up to die, and i also say they should do EXACTLY what they are doing right now, and looking back to their glory days (ALBW), starting with the basics and re-invent the conventions of Zelda once more, and build on that and work their way back up to the greatness it once was. Thing is guys, they are gonna end up trying things to "sell" and its gonna end up not even being the Zelda anymore! Geez.... Why so serious?

 

[Gamer Miki]

Please tell us how you would increase difficulty.

I would play Zelda 2 or Majora's Mask. Lol but seriously I don't think the series has become too easy, I think each game has its challenging aspects.
I do enjoy the puzzles in Zelda, so perhaps more puzzles. Another way would be to have less hearts available, and no jars present with hearts for a boss fight.