Spoiler How Can TMC Be the Beginning of the Split Timeline?

[DuckNoises]

Second of all, the Ganondorf from FSA isn't the same Ganondorf from OoT. He was transformed into Ganon and sealed in the Four Sword in FSA, so how could he possibly be the same one?! Likewise, how could it be the same Ganondorf from ALttP for the same reasons? Assuming FSA's placement before OoT is correct, the Ganondorf from FSA is the first Ganondorf. And Ganondorf wasn't just born as the demon Ganon, he was just a normal Gerudo male, hungry for power. He stole the forbidden trident, which gave him his powers and turned him into the ancient demon Ganon. That's the purpose of the trident; to turn its wielder into the the Demon King, Ganon.

Now, let me explain my Ganon theory. By stealing the trident, the Ganondorf from FSA, the first Ganondorf, was transformed into Ganon. He was then sealed within the Four Sword... Then, generations later, a new Ganondorf was born, the Ganondorf from OoT. This Ganondorf was the first person to ever lay hands on the Triforce. At the end of OoT (the Adult Timeline ending, that is), this Ganondorf turns into Ganon, but how? He doesn't have the trident, and couldn't, since it's sealed in the Four Sword along with the Ganon from FSA. He's not the same Ganondorf, either, so how can he have the power of Ganon? Some say the Triforce of Power allowed him to transform into Ganon, but that contradicts the purpose of the trident from FSA. Well, I have a very plausible theory that explains this, and I'll get to that in a bit. First, let's move on to other games.

What's to say that the Trident is the only thing that can turn Ganondorf into Ganon? He's transformed into Ganon with the Triforce of Power before the concept of the Trident of Power was even conceived.

The importance of the Triforce of Power supercedes the importance of the Trident of Power, because the Trident of Power has only ever appeared once to explain Ganon in the absence of the Triforce of Power. There are more instances where he has transformed into Ganon with the Triforce of Power than with the Trident. Why would the already sketchy evidence of one game
be meant to contradict every other adequately explained instance in almost all the other games?

Here's why I figure Nintendo came up with the Trident of Power. After TWW, People had been weaned off of the idea of Ganon being the humanoid, blue boar monster without having been Ganondorf gaining the Triforce of Power (while the Triforce is split). They had already made three games featuring Ganon while the Triforce is whole; ALttP, OoA and OoS. Since the public would undoubtedly demand answers, Nintendo acted proactively and made something to try and explain how Ganondorf could become Ganon without having the Triforce being split. Here is your Trident of Power.

ALttP's backstory tells us that a Gerudo man, Ganondorf, found the entrance to the Sacred Realm and claimed the complete Triforce for himself. This can't be the same Ganondorf from OoT, because he's dead, and it can't be the Ganondorf from FSA, because even if he did manage to break out of the Four Sword, he would already be Ganon, not Ganondorf, but ALttP's backstory says that he was transformed into Ganon when he obtained the Triforce. So we must assume that the Ganondorf from ALttP is yet another, third Ganondorf. But how did this Ganondorf somehow get the trident and transform into Ganon? Here's where my theory comes in.

In the GBA remake of ALttP, we see that the Four Sword has been moved to the Palace of the Four Sword in the Dark World/Sacred Realm, and its seal had been broken. Why was it moved, and when? Well, it was likely moved to the Sacred Realm for Hyrule's safety. After all, the Four Sword's seal had been broken twice before, releasing Vaati from within. The Hyrulean people didn't want to risk that happening a third time, and with Ganon, no less. So, sometime after FSA but before OoT, an entrance to the Sacred Realm was discovered and the Four Sword was relocated to that realm, so that even if the seal was broken again, Ganon would be trapped in the Sacred Realm, not able to wreck havoc on the land of Hyrule. The reason why this has to happen sometime before OoT is because it has to be a time before the location of the Triforce was discovered. The Hyrulean people knew of the Triforce even in the earliest times of Hyrule, as shown in TMC, but the location of the sacred artifact was unknown at that point. It wasn't until several years before OoT that the location of the Triforce was discovered: The Sacred Realm. This led to an all out war over the Sacred Realm, with everyone in search of the golden power. If the people of Hyrule knew that the Triforce was located in the Sacred Realm when they moved the Four Sword, there's no way they would have moved it there. If the seal ever broke, it would be the perfect opportunity for Ganon to take the Triforce and use its power for evil. And that's exactly what happened...in a way.

Eventually, the Four Sword's seal weakened, and the spirit of Ganon was able to escape. His body, along with the trident, however, would still be trapped in the Four Sword, unless the sword were to be drawn and its seal fully released. With no physical body, Ganon's spirit could do nothing but roam the Sacred Realm...and roam he did, until it found the Triforce. Being only a spirit, Ganon could not touch the Triforce, and therefore he could not harness its power. So, he played the waiting game. He infused his spirit in the Triforce of Power, waiting for a power hungry individual to discover it and house his spirit. That individual just happened to be the Ganondorf from OoT. This would explain why Ganondorf can temporarily transform into Ganon in OoT and TP, and why he's not the true, blue pig-like Ganon that was awakened in FSA. Ganondorf only had the spirit of Ganon in OoT and TP. He wasn't completely transformed into the Demon King like he was in FSA when he stole the trident. But then, in ALttP, Ganondorf does become the original Ganon. How can that be? Well, I'll tell you how.

The simplest answer to this question would be that he already is, and always, was the same Ganon(dorf). If Nintendo wanted there to be multiple Ganondorfs, why would they bother to keep having the character resurrected? Why doesn't he clearly get killed in every game?

In the end of TP, Ganondorf's Triforce of Power, the very same that Ganon's spirit is infused in, leaves him, presumably returning to the Sacred Realm. This would set the stage for ALttP. The third Ganondorf steals the whole Triforce, in turn obtaining the spirit of Ganon, just as the last Ganondorf had. At this time, Ganon longed for his original body, with his full power and the trident. So, he sent monsters into the Palace of the Four Sword to destroy its seal. He could then reclaim his full power and the trident. Much like what happened to FSA Ganondorf, this third Ganondorf was completely transformed into the Demon King Ganon, and stayed that way throughout the rest of the timeline. He was defeated in ALttP, but somehow revived and returned in TLoZ, and then defeated again, only to be revived a second time in OoS/OoA, and then defeated a final time.

This is the direct explanation of how Ganon broke out of his seal; the manner of his seal seems to be debated, but the method is clearly stated in-game:

Link, because of you, I've
escaped from the clutches of
the evil monsters. Thank you!
Ganon captured us because he
couldn't break the seal of the
sages with his power alone.
And then, using the wizard
Agahnim as his pawn, he drew us
to the Dark World.
After cracking the seal with
our powers, he sealed us inside
of these crystals.

This led to an all out war over the Sacred Realm, with everyone in search of the golden power. If the people of Hyrule knew that the Triforce was located in the Sacred Realm when they moved the Four Sword, there's no way they would have moved it there. If the seal ever broke, it would be the perfect opportunity for Ganon to take the Triforce and use its power for evil. And that's exactly what happened...in a way.

I'm positive that these are the events directly preceding ALttP, and not the events OoT. The GBA version of ALttP says the following:

Long ago, in Hyrule, a beautiful
kingdom surrounded by forests
and mountains...
legends told of an omnipotent
and omniscient Golden Power
that lay hidden.
It was hidden in a sacred
realm beyond the reach of men,
but one day...
...a doorway to that realm
was suddenly opened...
Hoping to claim the Golden
Power as their own, the people
began to quarrel and fight...
Many sought to enter the
hidden Golden Land...
But none returned, and instead
evil power began to issue
forth from the dark portal...
So the king commanded seven
sages to seal the gate to
the land of the Golden Power.
Many brave knights were lost
in the battle to protect the
sages from the tides of evil,
but the seal was cast! Evil
flowed no more! And the seal
would remain for all time...
Or so the people hoped...

You've almost paraphrased the introduction to ALttP. Are you trying to imply that the events of Ocarina of Time are the Imprisoning War, or have I misunderstood your point? Hasn't that theory since been retconned by the developers?
At any rate, this is the version of the text that is coupled with Four Swords. That has an implication that if the Four Sword Palace is canon, then it is more closely associated with ALttP than it is with OoT. That would imply that Four Swords must be close to ALttP on the timeline, if we are taking the Four Swords Palace to be canon.

 

[Rytex]

Yes, but in the other Capcom 4Sword saga games, Vaati was, in essence, a pedo child molester who kidnapped Zelda to be his bride, and simply a pawn of Ganon. He doesn't seem to have any more obsession with the Light force anymore.

 

[DuckNoises]

Yes, but in the other Capcom 4Sword saga games, Vaati was, in essence, a pedo child molester who kidnapped Zelda to be his bride, and simply a pawn of Ganon. He doesn't seem to have any more obsession with the Light force anymore.

Does this help your case? :?
I don't understand.

 

[Pinecove]

I don't even understand what the argument is anymore. Does someone care to fill me in?

 

[Dr3W21]

Why Would Minish Cap Come First?

(I'm not meaning to bash anyone's theories, for the record)
Since so many people theorize that MC comes first, I can't help but asking why?
Why exactly does MC come first?
(I would also like to say that I go by the Split Timeline, also assuming that OoT comes first)

--Any spam comments will also be deleted--

 

[99% ZeldaExpert]

I suppose some info leads to it being before Oot, some very small info, but I think it makes more sence down in the timeline around 4S since in the end of MC the 4S was created but that is just my idea.

 

[Megamannt125]

I used to be an avid supporter of MC coming first, but with Skyward Sword, it makes it a bit harder to place. If Skyward Sword is how I imagine it (Hyrule becomes established), then there's no way MC could be before it, not to mention what Aonuma said about Skyward Sword being the first Zelda game (he didn't directly say it, but he implied it), that just leaves MC going between SS and OOT, and that just doesn't make alot of sense I don't think. However, before SS, Minish Cap had a few things backing it up, like it calling it "Link and Zelda's first adventure in Hyrule" and of course, there's the whole Link getting his hat deal. I can't be really sure if MC can even still be that early on in the timeline at this point, but Skyward Sword may prove me wrong, we'll have to see.

 

[Jedizora]

Aonuma said about Skyward Sword being the first Zelda game.

He did not say this. What he did say however, Is that it takes place before OoT. Here is my evidence for it being before OoT: Not a single mention, cameo or history of ganon/dorf. He first got his hat, which leads me to believe that the GDT took the idea from him and gave his koriki clothes like that. In the japaneze ending, it says this is the end of link's first adventure. I don't know if this means all links, or just this link. I belive that this is the end of all of the links first adventure.

 

[Megamannt125]

He did not say this. What he did say however, Is that it takes place before OoT. Here is my evidence for it being before OoT: Not a single mention, cameo or history of ganon/dorf. He first got his hat, which leads me to believe that the GDT took the idea from him and gave his koriki clothes like that. In the japaneze ending, it says this is the end of link's first adventure. I don't know if this means all links, or just this link. I belive that this is the end of all of the links first adventure.

No, but like I said he implied it, here's what I mean:

– this title [Skyward Sword] takes place before Ocarina of Time. if I said that a certain title was ‘the first Zelda game’, then that means that we cant ever make a title that takes place before that! So for us to add titles to the series, we have to have a way of putting the titles before or after each other.” - Eiji Aonuma

At the line about calling it the first Zelda game, he implies that it currently is the first Zelda game in the timeline, but he doesn't want to directly say it, because he believes that will mean they can't ever make a game before SS for some reason.

 

[Pinecove]

Here is my evidence for it being before OoT: Not a single mention, cameo or history of ganon/dorf.

This can also work after ST or even TP. Why would Ganondorf need to be mentioned if he isn't important to the game?

He first got his hat, which leads me to believe that the GDT took the idea from him and gave his koriki clothes like that.

So what he got a hat? This may co-incide with ST where the gaurd captains don't wear hats. It may re-establish the tradition, but it definitely doesn't start it.

In the japaneze ending, it says this is the end of link's first adventure. I don't know if this means all links, or just this link. I belive that this is the end of all of the links first adventure.

The Japanese can be misinterpreted. It's TMC Link's first adventure. Not every Link ever.
It's very similar to LoZ's "Thus Links adventure ended" kinda thing.

@Megamannt125: Awesome work on that logic.

 

[Meego]

Well, apart from the other reasons because Link and Zelda are little. They look little in PH and ST too but it can't be PH because Niko is old in the game which is after WW but MC is clearly before WW. And ST is 100 years after PH so...those are my reasons along with ones people have already posted.

 

[DuckNoises]

Well, this draws back to a thread I made a long, long time ago. I'll merge this into it and we'll see if we can resurrect the discussion.

 

[Locke]

Aonuma also said that before SS, OoT was the first game in the timeline.
I almost like the idea of that "first adventure" line being removed from the NoA/NoE versions because the removal of the MS from the beta eventually removed MC from that position.

 

[Pinecove]

I almost like the idea of that "first adventure" line being removed from the NoA/NoE versions because the removal of the MS from the beta eventually removed MC from that position.

Good story on that. With all Zelda games, either NoA or PAL (NoE) localize the game and than the others steal/translate from it. In the case of TMC though, BOTH PAL and NoA translated from the Japanese, with noA "fixing up" on the translation errors that NoE had - the only one that was not "fixed" was the first adventure line.

Funny world eh?

 

[99% ZeldaExpert]

For the record, and I could be off a bit considering I didn't have alot of time when reading this arguement and barely read the first page, if SS came before MC and MC came before OoT it wouldn't make much sence. Yes the Triforce or Light Force or Tetra Force or whatever it is, is a big implament giving somewhat of evidence to lead on that the timeline goes something like SS> MC> OoT> Ect..., but the Triforce is only one impliment in the matter. In SS the Skyward Sword that Link has eventually becomes the Master Sword. Somewhere along the line in SS the MS would have to be placed in the chest containing evil. But, and this sort of argues with the placement of SS, the MS when pulled out of the chest is broken. And then the events of MC occur reforging the sword into the Four Sword. So with the Master Sword no longer existing and it now being the Four Sword, how would the MS just MAGICALLY appear in OoT? Like I said, someone may have mentioned this I don't know I havn't read further than the first page. Just something to think about.