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Hero's Shade Controversy from OoT to MM to TP.

Joined
May 13, 2013
After finally getting my copy of Hyrule Historia about a week ago (I know, I'm a horrible person) and looking through the timelines today I noticed something that didn't line up with the Child Era. On pg 110 of the Hyrule Historia it says that Link came back and warned Zelda of what Ganondorf would do. Zelda then gives him the Ocarina of Time and instructs to travel far away so that Ganondorf could never enter the Sacred Realm. From here we enter MM in which Link is searching for his friend, Navi, when he is attacked by Skull Kid. The events during MM are not so much important as what happens afterwards.

On pg 113, the beginning of the Twilight Princess portion it says "In Hyrule, Princess Zelda was informed of what would happen in the future by Link, the Hero of Time. She realized that leaving Ganondorf to his own devices would cause the down fall of her kingdom. Many years later, Ganondorf the infamous demon thief who wielded the power of magic, was finally to be executed."

So why are these lines so important? Well if you look at Zelda, judging by her appearance she looks to be somewhere in her twenties meaning only about 10-20 years have passed. Ganondorf is finally being brought to justice. It has long been speculated that the Hero's Shade is OoT/MM Link but with this new information that is more than unlikely. If Zelda appears to be in her twenties then OoT Link should be too.

Now perhaps the Hero of Time did not die from old age but in battle. Not only is this highly unlikely seeing as Link was able to defeat Ganondorf/Ganon, the embodiment of Demise's Hatred, it would not tie in with the fact that the Link of TP is supposed to be a descendant of the Hero of Time. TP Link looks as if he is about 18 to 25 as well meaning that he is as old or almost as old as OoT Link.

In OoT we see how Hylians grow from children to adults in about the same time humans do. Now let's say Hylians did age slower after the age of 20 then perhaps Zelda is 40, Ganondorf 60-80 and the now deceased OoT Link 40 as well. This leaves him enough time to have had a child.

Another way to explain his early death is that perhaps he was turned into a Stalfos, with his Triforce of courage to thank for his sanity. (Italicised part taken from Zelda Wiki) He seems to be dressed similarly to stalfos warriors. He obviously believed that Navi was somewhere in the woods so perhaps after having his child he went back in in search of her and became lost. However Link seemed to have been protected from this fate all of his life as he lived as a kokiri making this theory unlikely.

So now that we have the facts laid out the Hero's shade is either not OoT Link and perhaps a Link from a game not yet released or Hylians age at an extremely slow pace after the age of 20. Either way much of the Hero's Shade remains a mystery, how did die, what's with the armour, who was his wife. Do you guys think this is truly the troubled spirit of our beloved OoT Link or of another?
 
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Joined
Feb 23, 2011
I don't get what you're saying, as your post seems to lose its footing on the last bit. However, if you're insinuating that TP Link is the Hero's Shade's son, then you've been mistaken. The Hero's Shade's parting remark made reference to their shared lineage, surely enough, but it was not meant to be taken so literally.

As for the question at the end... the Hero's Shade is confirmed to be TP Link's predecessor; there is no controversy...
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
I don't get what you're saying, as your post seems to lose its footing on the last bit. However, if you're insinuating that TP Link is the Hero's Shade's son, then you've been mistaken. The Hero's Shade's parting remark made reference to their shared lineage, surely enough, but it was not meant to be taken so literally.

As for the question at the end... the Hero's Shade is confirmed to be TP Link's predecessor; there is no controversy...

So you think that Hylians age more slowly after the age of 20? Or are you saying that the Hero's Shade is not OoT Link but in fact some other. It has also been confirmed that the TP Zelda and Ganondorf are the same Zelda and Ganondorf of OoT. So if TP Link is not the Hero's Shade son but a direct descendant this means that he would have to be a grandchild, meaning that our Zelda that looks to be in here twenties is actually in her forties and Ganondorf between 80-100 which means that Hylians age extremely slow after the age of 20
 
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Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
So why are these lines so important? Well if you look at Zelda, judging by her appearance she looks to be somewhere in her twenties meaning only about 10-20 years have passed. Ganondorf is finally being brought to justice.

I think this misconception is the root of the issue here. I may be mistaken but it sounds like you are thinking that Zelda from Twilight Princess is the very same Zelda we saw as a child at the end of Ocarina of Time. She isn't. The Historia confirms that the execution scene we see in Twilight Princess takes place several years after the Child Timeline ending of Ocarina of Time but then many more years pass, almost certainly several hundred, and then Twilight Princess begins. The Link and Zelda we see in Twilight Princess are not the ones from Ocarina of Time.

The Hyrule Historia also confirms the truth about the Hero's Shade on page 118. The Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time's regret manifesting itself. It's not specifically Ocarina of Time Link, but more a personification of his regret about not being remembered as a hero. Whether Twilight Princess Link is truly his descendant or just someone taking on the mantle of the hero is a little less clear. The English translation of the game does say that Twilight Princess Link "carries the blood of the hero" but I am unsure if this is present in the Japanese text. Either way, Hyrule Historia confirms that the Hero's Shade is at least an aspect of the Hero of Time.
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
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It seems that a lot of this theory is going off the notion that the time gap between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess is only a few decades. Now even though this isn't confirmed I can safely say this is not the case.

The geography for one, now I know geography isn't consistent but look at the sheer difference... You have much of the similar areas yet they appear much different, in fact alien in some cases. Kokiri Village is no more, Zora's Domain has seemed to move north of Hyrule Castle, Hyrule Castle is heavily improved it's structure and size, Temple of Time is in a completely different location and in ruins, Kakariko Village is now largely deserted. Now one could argue that this could have been a war of sorts but as you mentioned yourself, the threat of Ganondorf is gone. There is clear signs of aging within Hyrule between OoT and TP I would argue that the time frame could be anywhere between 500-1000 due to the sheer contrast.

There is also the factor of familiar characters and ancestors would be seen, yet we see none, plus the fact that there is barley no mention of such characters. This leads me onto my next point, how come things within Twilight Princess seem to be so foreign to the events of Ocarina of Time there is no talk of the Kokiri, the Great Deku Tree or the hero of time. Surly if the time frame was so little we would get some mention however there are no reoccurring characters and the ones we do see are mostly unique to that game.
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Imposer said:
It has long been speculated that the Hero's Shade is*OoT/MM*Link but with this new information that is more than unlikely. I
It has been long speculated and confirmed by Hyrule Historia so I guess that answers that question.
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
I think this misconception is the root of the issue here. I may be mistaken but it sounds like you are thinking that Zelda from Twilight Princess is the very same Zelda we saw as a child at the end of Ocarina of Time. She isn't. The Historia confirms that the execution scene we see in Twilight Princess takes place several years after the Child Timeline ending of Ocarina of Time but then many more years pass, almost certainly several hundred, and then Twilight Princess begins. The Link and Zelda we see in Twilight Princess are not the ones from Ocarina of Time.

The Hyrule Historia also confirms the truth about the Hero's Shade on page 118. The Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time's regret manifesting itself. It's not specifically Ocarina of Time Link, but more a personification of his regret about not being remembered as a hero. Whether Twilight Princess Link is truly his descendant or just someone taking on the mantle of the hero is a little less clear. The English translation of the game does say that Twilight Princess Link "carries the blood of the hero" but I am unsure if this is present in the Japanese text. Either way, Hyrule Historia confirms that the Hero's Shade is at least an aspect of the Hero of Time.

So then it took 700 years for Ganondorf to ally with Zant, overthrow Midna and invade Hyrule? Hardly seems likely. Perhaps though Ganondorf got lost in the Twilight Realm? But when Link enters the Twilight Realm he is right in front of the Twili Palace. Or maybe time flows differently in the Twilight Realm?

It seems that a lot of this theory is going off the notion that the time gap between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess is only a few decades. Now even though this isn't confirmed I can safely say this is not the case.

The geography for one, now I know geography isn't consistent but look at the sheer difference... You have much of the similar areas yet they appear much different, in fact alien in some cases. Kokiri Village is no more, Zora's Domain has seemed to move north of Hyrule Castle, Hyrule Castle is heavily improved it's structure and size, Temple of Time is in a completely different location and in ruins, Kakariko Village is now largely deserted. Now one could argue that this could have been a war of sorts but as you mentioned yourself, the threat of Ganondorf is gone. There is clear signs of aging within Hyrule between OoT and TP I would argue that the time frame could be anywhere between 500-1000 due to the sheer contrast.

There is also the factor of familiar characters and ancestors would be seen, yet we see none, plus the fact that there is barley no mention of such characters. This leads me onto my next point, how come things within Twilight Princess seem to be so foreign to the events of Ocarina of Time there is no talk of the Kokiri, the Great Deku Tree or the hero of time. Surly if the time frame was so little we would get some mention however there are no reoccurring characters and the ones we do see are mostly unique to that game.
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It has been long speculated and confirmed by Hyrule Historia so I guess that answers that question.

I guess you are right but now we have the dilemma of time in the Twilight Realm. Since Ganondorf has clearly shown signs of aging between OoT and his Execution and next to none between then and his invasion of Hyrule does time move slower in the Twilight Realm?
 
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Justac00lguy

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Shewhale
Imposer said:
So then it took 700 years for Ganondorf to ally with Zant, overthrow Midna and invade Hyrule? Hardly seems likely. Perhaps though Ganondorf got lost in the Twilight Realm? But when Link enters the Twilight Realm he is right in front of the Twili Palace. Or maybe time flows differently in the Twilight Realm?
Ganondorf was severely injured at the hands of the Sages, look at how he appeared before Zant for starters... He appeared in a very spiritual like way. Now this could be due to his injuries or the fact that he simply couldn't appear in his true form due to the appearance of Twilight. Now if this is the case then he would be powerless, his attempt to take over the Twilight Realm would be unjust and unsuccessful. He had to wait for the right moment, Zant was the perfect person to play the role of puppet, Ganondorf could have waited for years in the Realm itself, he has been known to be patient before.

However there is also the common misconception that Ganondorf's Exacution takes place immediately after he was caught however this is unlikely. Ganondorf would have probably went under a long trial and maybe served many if not hundreds of years within Arbiter's Grounds (which is known to be a prison for the worst criminals in Hyrule). It is likely that the events we saw, of Ganondorf being executed, took place many years after the ending of Ocarina of Time .
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
Hmm. I do not see Ganondorf's power to be so fleeting, especially since it is from the Tri Force of power itself. Being able to kill one sage after being stabbed and as we know from OoT all of the Sages at full strength I do not believe a sword wound, even one as severe as that, that does not come from the Master Sword would be able to hurt him as much. Perhaps he did wait for Zant. Then Twili are either noble to the point that Ganondorf could not corrupt one of the royal family, Twili live an extremely long time, or time flows differently.
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
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Gender
Shewhale
Hmm. I do not see Ganondorf's power to be so fleeting, especially since it is from the Tri Force of power itself. Being able to kill one sage after being stabbed and as we know from OoT all of the Sages at full strength I do not believe a sword wound, even one as severe as that, that does not come from the Master Sword would be able to hurt him as much. Perhaps he did wait for Zant. Then Twili are either noble to the point that Ganondorf could not corrupt one of the royal family, Twili live an extremely long time, or time flows differently.

Well as I said before it could have been due to the properties of the Twilight, that left him severely underpowered or Ganondorf acting strategically. He knew that his only way out was to house his power within a living being as his current self was a spirit of sorts. Zant was the perfect opportunity...
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
Well as I said before it could have been due to the properties of the Twilight, that left him severely underpowered or Ganondorf acting strategically. He knew that his only way out was to house his power within a living being as his current self was a spirit of sorts. Zant was the perfect opportunity...

Yeah. Well now we're just playing with thoughts and theories without much evidence to back them. It was nice while it lasted. Thanks for the great conversation. I must say I was bit discouraged when my analyses got squashed by the first reply with no backing other than "It's been confirmed, your wrong." (I mean no offense to you Wolf Sage it's just that it didn't encourage me very much) Thanks for helping me sort things out, looking forward to being part of the community.
 
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HylianHero

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Jan 21, 2013
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Academia de Hyrule
Hmm. I do not see Ganondorf's power to be so fleeting, especially since it is from the Tri Force of power itself. Being able to kill one sage after being stabbed and as we know from OoT all of the Sages at full strength I do not believe a sword wound, even one as severe as that, that does not come from the Master Sword would be able to hurt him as much. Perhaps he did wait for Zant. Then Twili are either noble to the point that Ganondorf could not corrupt one of the royal family, Twili live an extremely long time, or time flows differently.

But the sword the sages use to execute Ganondorf is obviously magical and very powerful. When it runs through him, it leaves behind a enormous glowing scar, a magical wound, that remains on Ganondorf even after he reconstructs his body several times and when he transforms into Ganon. It is no normal sword, and that wound is no normal wound. The Triforce of power merely keeps him alive, it doesn't prevent him from being hurt even to the point where his corporeal body is destroyed. And Ganondorf was so hurt when the Sages sealed him in the Twilight Realm that he not retain his form, look at the state he was in when he met Zant. He even says this about the Twili to Midna:

Ganondorf: Pathetic as they were, though, they served me well. Their anguish was my nourishment. Their hatred bled across the void and awakened me. I drew deep in it and grew strong.

He says that they "awakened" him. This indicates that he must have been in a weakened state before he met Zant. He had to gradually build power, and even then he needed Zant to house his power in. He was dependent on him to revive him. Everything points to Ganondorf being severely injured by the Sage's sword.
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
But the sword the sages use to execute Ganondorf is obviously magical and very powerful. When it runs through him, it leaves behind a enormous glowing scar, a magical wound, that remains on Ganondorf even after he reconstructs his body several times and when he transforms into Ganon. It is no normal sword, and that wound is no normal wound. The Triforce of power merely keeps him alive, it doesn't prevent him from being hurt even to the point where his corporeal body is destroyed. And Ganondorf was so hurt when the Sages sealed him in the Twilight Realm that he not retain his form, look at the state he was in when he met Zant. He even says this about the Twili to Midna:



He says that they "awakened" him. This indicates that he must have been in a weakened state before he met Zant. He had to gradually build power, and even then he needed Zant to house his power in. He was dependent on him to revive him. Everything points to Ganondorf being severely injured by the Sage's sword.

Good point. I like it. It has been quite a long while since playing TP so small details like these escape me. Thank you.
 

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