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Hero's Shade: a Timeline Problem?

Clucluclu

Time for waffles
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
I think Hero's Shade is probably Hero of Time for reasons previously stated, but I also like to think that it could have been Hero of Time's father. I think that he fought in the Hylian Civil War prior to OoT, so he would most likely have skills with a sword. Also, the HS refers to Link as his son or something like that, which would make sense because TP link is closely connected to OoT Link, as explaind by the light spirit, Faron. One final piece of evidence is that HS says something about regreting not passing his skills on, this could be because he died in the battlefield, or never found his son.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
I'll jump in, DL.

Okay so assuming you have played Twilight Princess you have encountered the Hero's Shade (a ghostlike entity that teaches link new sword skills) who is probably one of the Links of the past. However he is so vague that there are many things within the timeline he might change.

I don't see how the Hero's Shade contradicts anything about OoT/MM-TP

The only thing that hints to the Hero's Shade being a past Link is the fact that it's supposed to be some sort of ancient hero. There have been other heroes in the series that are spoken of other than Links. I don't recall anything that makes it OBVIOUS that the Hero's Shade is a past Link. That is just your opinion.

First of all people generally accept the Hero's Shade to be oot/mm link. This however I think is very unlikely as Tp is on the child timline hundreds of years after oot (confirmed by Aonuma himself) so this means none of links adventures in hyrule would be known.

False. Kid Link did save both the Gorons and Zora and got thanked and praised by both groups. It's not crazy to think that the Hero's Shade could be CTOOT (Child Timeline OoT) Link because his adventures as a child in the game could have been spread around. He saved one species food supply and saved another species fish lord. Seems pretty heroic to me. I hate it when people say that Kid Link never did anything in OoT. He did a lot. Without all of the stuff he did as a child he never would have been able to do the stuff he did as an adult.

Granted in mm on the Child timeline Link saved an entire kingdom/country but this is in an alternate dimension from which none of the people in hyrule would know about meaning no legends could form around him.

Also false. The Happy Mask Salesman is clearly a person who does a lot of traveling and deals with many people. That's the only way he would be able to find the masks that he finds. He is just some (mostly) normal person and he is clearly able to freely get between Hyrule and Termina. It's not crazy to think that others could get there or leave there.

Here is my point. The Happy Mask Salesman is a salesman (duh) so he obviously interacts with people. He also collects masks which would take social interaction to find. He found a mask that he had been looking for for a long time. The mask was stolen and used to bring a different dimension within inches of destruction and a little kid saved that dimension. Don't you think that when the HMS goes on with his life to sell masks that he would tell that story because I sure would. He did help him save that dimension by turning him back into regular Link when Link couldn't transform. He technically helped save that dimension too so that's a story I'm sure he would tell people.

Also, the Hero's Shade doesn't have to be someone that everyone knows from legends. The Goddesses or sages are probably the ones that gave him his undead helping Link powers and no matter how many humans/other people don't know about his adventures, only the people that actual chose the Hero's Shade to be the Hero's Shade are the ones that need to know and if it was the sages or the Goddesses they always know everything.

I see absolutely nothing wrong when it comes to the timeline because of the Hero's Shade.
 
S

Subrosian

Guest
The Hero's Shade may or may not be Link, but he is from the Hero of Time's bloodline, thus making it possible for him to have been one of the many Link's.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
The Hero's Shade may or may not be Link, but he is from the Hero of Time's bloodline, thus making it possible for him to have been one of the many Link's.

You can't prove this. It's just your opinion/speculation. You shouldn't state things as if they are fact when they aren't.
 
S

Subrosian

Guest
You can't prove this. It's just your opinion/speculation. You shouldn't state things as if they are fact when they aren't.
Have you even played TP?
The Hero's Shade clearly states he is of the same bloodline as Link.
 

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
Have you even played TP?
The Hero's Shade clearly states he is of the same bloodline as Link.

Give me the in-game quote that says that. I would love to see you prove this, because I guarantee that nowhere in the game does it say that he is of the same bloodline as Link. It may say something along the lines of him being an ancient hero or of a bloodline of an ancient hero but that in no way means that he is related to a past Link. There have been other ancient heroes spoken of in the series that are not Links.

If you want to prove me wrong then post the in-game evidence.

I have gone to ZeldaWiki and have read up on the Hero's Shade and there are only THEORIES on him being a past relative of Link.

There is a part where he calls Link his "child" which doesn't matter because in many other fictitious (and non-fictitious) stories there are mentors who call their students "my child"

There is a part where the Hero's Shade says that his moves are only taught to his bloodline. To counteract that, he could just be saying that only his bloodline used these moves but because Link is worthy, he decides to teach Link the moves.

Another argument against the bloodline thing is the fact that in OoT, only members of the Royal Family learn Zelda's Lullaby, but just because Link learns it doesn't mean he's a member of the Royal Family. It was absolutely necessary for him to learn that song just like it's absolutely necessary for him to learn the Hero's Shade moves even though they are only supposed to be in the Hero's Shade's bloodline.

No where in the game does it straight up say that he is related to TP Link or any past Link in any way, whatsoever. You have just been proven wrong, my friend. I am a hardcore Zelda player and theorist. I know my stuff so it's probably not the best idea to call me out like you did.
 
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Zant

Friend of The Kaleesh
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
In the Twilight Realm...In the Twilight Palace
I think that the Hero's Shade was definately not Link. One, If you'll notice, the HS has a much different facial structure. Two, he is waaay taller than Link. Three, if he was one of the past Links, he would be wearing the green tunic, not armor.

I agree with Zeman. I don't think that the HS was a past Link.
 
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Earth
My OPINION: After Zelda sent Link back in time to relive his childhood, Link visits Zelda in her castle. She is the sage of time, so she probably knows what happened when Link was an adult and how he killed Ganondorf and the sages locked him in the sac red realm. The past Ganondorf is still alive and free. Link and Zelda told the king about Ganondorf's evil plans. They imprisoned him, because if they didn't he would find some other way to rule hyrule. But before Twilight princess, he breaks free from his prison and the sages send him to the twilight realm, but thats not important in the theory.
At the beginning of Majora's Mask, it says Link is looking for a friend, probably Navi. At the end of Majoras Mask, he still hasn't found Navi. After MM, he probably was looking for Navi again. He might have been in the lost woods and he got lost, causing him to turn into a stalfos, because he had no fairy. I think OoT Link is the HS and he has a larger body because of his Stalfos form.
 

Zant

Friend of The Kaleesh
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
In the Twilight Realm...In the Twilight Palace
This stalfos thing you are talking about...that still doesn't make sense. If the HS was a past Link, it would be wearing the green hero's tunic. As the Heroes Shade was not, it can't be Link. Link does not wear armor, with the exception of the Magic Armor in TP.
And why would Link want to search for that yappy fairy? I personally think Navi is really annoying.
 
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Earth
This stalfos thing you are talking about...that still doesn't make sense. If the HS was a past Link, it would be wearing the green hero's tunic. As the Heroes Shade was not, it can't be Link. Link does not wear armor, with the exception of the Magic Armor in TP.
And why would Link want to search for that yappy fairy? I personally think Navi is really annoying.

Link in TP gets the clothes that OoT Link wore. Have you seen a Stalfos without armor? im guessing it somehow comes with the Stalfos form, or maybe he just got some? And without Navi, Link would never have become a hero, even though Navi is a little annoying
 

Jirohnagi

Braava Braava
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Soul Sanctum
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Geosexual
i think the Hero's shade is actually MM link grown up because the HS sword and the gilded sword are similar also why go on about it eh he says he is of link's bloodline basically which could mean he is the actually spirit within them to keep them fighting how else do you explain the resurrection each time they die. Also before someone says but if he is the spirit then why does he leave link to teach him his moves SIMPLE ANSWER: link is a wolf when he calls the HS which means his spirit is free to leave because they no longer share the same human form. Hope this helps
 

Pinecove

Last Chance
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
Toronto Ontario
Yet...you can't prove this, So I'm going to go ahead and dismiss this because it's just a likely it is a legend that is a century old.

Excuse me, but do you know Japanese? I didn't think so.

It COULD be a century, but looking at ll the old photos, the zora heritage (especially since the zora can live 400 years (see OoA)) it seems more like centuries.
 

Zeruda

Mother Hyrule
Joined
May 17, 2009
Location
on a crumbling throne
i think the Hero's shade is actually MM link grown up because the HS sword and the gilded sword are similar also why go on about it eh he says he is of link's bloodline basically which could mean he is the actually spirit within them to keep them fighting how else do you explain the resurrection each time they die. Also before someone says but if he is the spirit then why does he leave link to teach him his moves SIMPLE ANSWER: link is a wolf when he calls the HS which means his spirit is free to leave because they no longer share the same human form. Hope this helps
1) The game is over a century since OoT/MM. If it was OoT/MM!Link, he'd be old and rotting.
2) He never mentions being in the same bloodline as TP!Link. Ever. Not a single time.
3) Resurrection is just part of the game. Without it, the game would be impossible to play for many people. Link doesn't actually "die". He doesn't actually have more than one heart.
4) Calling the Hero's Shade doesn't mean that Link's spirit is free to leave... that's... I mean, it's a neat idea for a fan fic or something, but it's not a part of the game in any way.

Excuse me, but do you know Japanese? I didn't think so.

It COULD be a century, but looking at ll the old photos, the zora heritage (especially since the zora can live 400 years (see OoA)) it seems more like centuries.
Try not to be so aggresive, please. The user might just so happen to know Japanese, you never know unless you ask. Even if he doesn't know Japanese, Zemen is known for seeking knowledge on the series. I'm sure he's looked around at various sources.

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Yes, it's true that both plural and singular form for "century" and "centuries" is the same word in Japanese. This already caused a problem when The Wind Waker first came out. It was first said that the game was a century after OoT's original (adult) timeline, but was later pointed out that the proper term used in an interview was the plural form.

If TP is parallel, it's more than likely centuries (plural) after OoT's child timeline.

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Now, onto addressing the actual topic. No, the Hero's Shade doesn't cause any discrepancies with the timeline. The only discrepancies that arise are caused purely by the common fan speculation that the HS is a spirit of or related to OoT/MM!Link. However, canonically, it is never mentioned in-game that there is any relation between the two.

It is mentioned that there was "a" hero previously, but who he is or how long ago he lived is never brought up in-game. For all we know, it could have been a brave Knight of Hyrule. It could have been a legendary King of Hyrule for all we know. In OoT, it's mentioned that the king unified the country. In TWW, a king makes a noble wish in an effort to save the new land. In ALttP, a king orders the Seven Sages and the Knights of Hyrule to seal the gates to the Golden Land. In AoL, the king actually had magic, and placed a spell on Hyrule that would cause a crest to appear on the hand of the next great king. So, these kings all did heroic deeds, meaning there can be other heroes of other sorts.

So in conclusion, no, the canon information (what little there is) on the Hero's Shade doesn't cause any timeline problems; it's the fan speculation that does.
 

Pinecove

Last Chance
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
Toronto Ontario
Try not to be so aggresive, please. The user might just so happen to know Japanese, you never know unless you ask.
My bad.

Zemen is known for seeking knowledge on the series. I'm sure he's looked around at various sources.
Sorry, but this is just a bad response. ALmost EVERYONE on the Zelda Historian project has knowledge on the series. Which reminds me, Zemen have you been assigned anything yet?
 

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