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Healthcare

Moe the Moblin

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Dude
this kind of discussion needs citations I think
not really seeing a ton

I heard a factoid on facebook that the US actually spends more per capita on healthcare than other places in tax dollars; it's just for profit
so the insurance money and tax money is going directly to the rich people in the first place
either way I don't care as long as I'm not forced to spend money on something I don't want -> this includes taxes


EDIT: oh look citations
 

Saint Bik

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It doesn't have to be this complicated. Private insurance works. Something just needs to be done to prevent hospitals and pharmacies from price gouging. As I explained previously, the reason they do this is because there are no supply and demand limits on healthcare. There is simply no limiting factor preventing them from setting any prices they want.

And I am certainly not okay with anyone voting to determine what their money goes towards. Sorry but voters are stupid and will certainly decide to send everyone's money off to stupid stuff instead of where it's really needed.
Private insurance only works when the alternative (not having health insurance or a public healthcare plan) is a feasible option, which it isn't unless you're extremely wealthy and can afford a medical emergency without needing a backup plan or you're so poor that you're fine going bankrupt if you get sick.

Private insurance operates on the idea of getting paid as much money as possible and paying out as little money as possible; by its very nature, it's a parasite. Insurance as an "in case of emergency" thing can be useful, but not when it inserts itself so heavily into every aspect of our healthcare system, squeezes as much money as it can out of people, and restricts which doctors we can go to.

I agree with the main idea you're saying here though, probably. It's deregulation of medical costs that has caused this problem. I just think that health insurance is one of the main reasons it's been able to spiral out of control so badly. A properly regulated private system CAN work, as can a public system. The problem is that the American healthcare system doesn't work and insurance companies will do anything they can to keep it that way because it's extremely profitable.
 

DeusMerrilyOnHigh

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It doesn't have to be this complicated. Private insurance works. Something just needs to be done to prevent hospitals and pharmacies from price gouging. As I explained previously, the reason they do this is because there are no supply and demand limits on healthcare. There is simply no limiting factor preventing them from setting any prices they want.

And I am certainly not okay with anyone voting to determine what their money goes towards. Sorry but voters are stupid and will certainly decide to send everyone's money off to stupid stuff instead of where it's really needed.
The prices are high because there is no competition and it's impossible to become a competitor due to government interference and regulation. Scrap it and the prices go down.

You wouldn't have to pay anything into the system I proposed if you didn't want and if you felt your money was being misspent. You could just buy a private treatment when necessary or have insurance. You can do that now, however everyone is forced to pay for the NHS regardless, there is no opt out if you have private insurance and never intend to use NHS services.

In England you are never going to convince people here to let the NHS go so to have a system where most people pay in voluntarily for free treatment at the point of service is gonna be the only acceptable thing for most people until they clearly see a better alternative.
 
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You’re using incredibly skewed data here, as the average American person is different from the average European person. We spend more on healthcare because we need it more, not because of quality but because of our generally unhealthy lifestyle. You should instead be looking at our current spending in comparison to projected spending if a bill similar to this is passed.


in North Carolina, Democratic State Representative Verla Insko moves to kill her own pro-single-payer bill. An assessment from the state legislature’s Fiscal Research Division pegged the cost of single-payer at $70 billion, $42 billion of which would have to come from the state. That latter figure is almost twice the state budget.


Even Bernie Sanders said that his own proposed health plan would hurt the economy, and the urban institute did an analysis that concluded that it would cost over $32 trillion over ten years.

These are just a few of the examples of an incredibly similar plan that “works” for Europeans (despite being quite disliked by a large portion of their respective populations from what I hear) that would be absolutely horrible for Americans. We should be focusing on supporting little pharma in order to make prices more competitive. A Bull Moose would be pretty good right now...
 

Castle

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insurance companies will do anything they can to keep it that way because it's extremely profitable.
Actually, in the trinity of evil that is Insurance Companies/Hospitals/Big Pharma, the insurance company is the lesser of the evils. Insurers are your best advocate. They will work to negotiate your costs down because the hospitals and pharmacies are always trying to push the limits of what the insurance company is willing to pay.

The insurance companies are not profiting from this as much as the hospitals and pharmacies. It's the hospitals and pharmacies that are gorging themselves on the massive pool of money that the insurance companies are taking in from their customers.

The solution to the problem doesn't lie with insurers. It lies with the hospitals and pharmacies. Something has to be done to stop them from gouging for no other reason than because they can. Princes will ALWAYS eternally be astronomical - whether through private or public insurance options - so long as they can keep price gouging.
 

Saint Bik

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Actually, in the trinity of evil that is Insurance Companies/Hospitals/Big Pharma, the insurance company is the lesser of the evils. Insurers are your best advocate. They will work to negotiate your costs down because the hospitals and pharmacies are always trying to push the limits of what the insurance company is willing to pay.

The insurance companies are not profiting from this as much as the hospitals and pharmacies. It's the hospitals and pharmacies that are gorging themselves on the massive pool of money that the insurance companies are taking in from their customers.

The solution to the problem doesn't lie with insurers. It lies with the hospitals and pharmacies. Something has to be done to stop them from gouging for no other reason than because they can. Princes will ALWAYS eternally be astronomical - whether through private or public insurance options - so long as they can keep price gouging.
I agree that deregulated drug pricing is a bigger issue than private insurance itself. I think insurance (regardless of it's private or public) is the reason why drug companies can get away with this kind of price inflation and I think private insurance encourages it (they'd rather it be impossible to afford your drugs and medical bills without your insurance, because that makes you willing to pay more and makes it harder to refuse to buy in). I think insurance companies kind of play the hero against a villain they've themselves created.

Hospital costs in the US are overly high as well for a couple reasons. The current insurance system is one of them, because it creates an entire ecosystem of needless administrative work that consumers ultimately pay for. Hospitals make deals to be covered by specific insurance groups and have to deal with a variety of insurance companies and claims that bog everything down. The other reason why hospitals are so expensive is because doctors get paid a lot in America, partially because they have to because medical school puts them in so much debt. Frankly, I'd rather we cover most or all of doctors' education costs and/or find ways to decrease the also overly inflated costs of educating them so that their pay can be more in line with doctors internationally and they don't need to feel forced into going into going for the most profitable specializations instead of general care in places that need it, but don't pay as well.

I absolutely agree that someone needs to step in and either set restrictions on price gouging or allow for importation of drugs from places like Canada to force them to compete with cheaper drugs or subsidize manufacturing generic versions of these drugs at no/low profit to ensure that people aren't being taken hostage by greedy pharmacy companies.
 

Noel

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Do you think Healthcare should be free (the cost spread about via Taxes) or should it be a pay as you go system with insurance keeping the costs and charging you?
Yes. Absolutely, Everyone hasn't got an insurance policy nor or they fortunate enough. We as brothers should strive to pay the taxes and help the government render these services free of cost to the economically weaker sector. Providing healthcare care services and quality education is the least the government could do for it's citizens.
Here ,the government(not private) hospitals provides health care services at a very low cost
i've seen people treat the hospital staff like utter crap because things weren't done instantly or a diagnosis was slightly later coming than expected.
This is the exact opposite of current scenario.
The government 'doctors' as they call themselves are into a strike and are demanding reservations and more salary. Damn! This is a service not a business if you want to be a billionaire then don't become a Doctor.


The government has taken sever action against them for leaving tons of lives at stake.
Hence, I conclude by saying that healthcare facilities must be free and the patients who use it are entitled to some respect.
 

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