Groups Changes

[Jimmu]

There have recently been some discussions about how we should be handling gaming groups. I've created this thread as suggested by @Spirit in another thread regarding the Animal Crossing Forum so that there is a clear place for discussion on it as there are quite a few points that go into it and I'd like to make sure that everyone has the chance to have a say if they wish to do so.

Gripes with them as they have been so far, is that they appear at the bottom of the page and are largely forgotten about, their purpose is unclear, there are too many inactive groups, and whether or not posts from general gaming should be moved into a gaming group if one exists for that series. Let's try and address each of these points:

Gaming Groups Position on the Forum Index Page
I have moved Gaming Groups from Subscription Forums and Groups to under General Chitchat (for now, pending feedback).

First, I moved it under General Gaming, but this caused it to appear as below. This means that two clicks would be required to reach each forum, which defeats the purpose of making them more visible and less forgotten about.

So, I moved it to appear underneath General Gaming but not as a sub-forum of General Gaming so that all the threads appear easily as so:

I'd like to hear what people think of this solution as it can be easily changed again if we want to.

Purpose of Gaming Groups
When gaming groups were created we had an add-on which allowed users to create their own groups. Now that is not available to us anymore and they are handled in the system the same way any other forum is. So we need to ask:

- Do we still want the groups able to be made and credited to individual users (with the creator name and description shown in the forum description) as they have been so far?

- Or should we only create them based on user suggestions for series' with popular and ongoing activity (threads/posts/discussions)?

- At the end of this month we will likely be removing inactive gaming groups and merging the threads from them into General Gaming in any case. How long should a group be inactive before its contents (threads and posts) are merged into general gaming?

- Should we merge the gaming groups for each respective series into the "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" forum?

- Or should we move "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" to Gaming Groups instead (and remove the existing gaming groups for them)?

- Maybe we should just keep both?

Should new threads posted into General Gaming be moved into a gaming group if one exists for that series already?
Or should we just let people decide where to post the thread?

I'll post my own answers to these questions later. But I'd appreciate to hear from a few others too.

 

[MapelSerup]

• I think the groups should be credited to the original creators, but maybe there should be something like a suggestion thread so that you know there is interest in that game.
• 4-6 months of no activity should be a good interval for removal.
• “World of Pokemon” and “Smash Bros” posts should be moved to their respective gaming groups. Having these two topics in the General Gaming section kind of defeats its purpose.
• “General Gaming” should be to discuss the gaming market as a whole. Threads about certain games should be moved to their respective gaming groups, if there is one.

Just my thoughts on the matter
How does everyone else feel?

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

To start, there are some groups whose "owners" aren't active anymore. We should either decide if those groups are worth keeping, and if so, who would like to own the group to revive it. If no one expresses interest in helming the group, and since it lacks an owner, it's justifiable to immedietly delete the group and distribute it's contents into General Gaming.

I think depending on feedback, the question is: do we even want Gaming Groups anymore? Prior to the software update they weren't too active anyway, so this isn't a new issue. Should we continue trying to distribute groups to members to head if it's more productive to simply post your thread idea about a particular series in General Gaming? If you want to post something more personal, like a play log recap type thing, perhaps a blog is better for that content? In the event a particular series is a really hot topic in the community, would it be better to just make a sub-forum for it in General Gaming?

After evaluation, I'm leaning towards getting rid of Gaming Groups. The groups that aren't too popular have content that didn't warrent a whole group for it, and the activity wasn't consistent enough for the group either. The ones that are for games that are pretty popular, we're fragmenting content on those games between two different areas, and it might be unnecessary. It'd be like if I tried making a gaming group for BotW 2. We already have a Forum Section devoted to the game, a gaming group for it is overkill.

Of course, there might be an argument to be made in favor of keeping Gaming Groups, and if enough members really want them to stay that's perfectly fine. I've never been personally invested with them anyway so I don't care too much on the outcome. I'm just pitching my thoughts.

 

[Ninja]

- Do we still want the groups able to be made and credited to individual users (with the creator name and description shown in the forum description) as they have been so far?

Or should we only create them based on user suggestions for series' with popular and ongoing activity (threads/posts/discussions)?

I like creating them based on users suggestions along with how popular and active the games are in chat. If it's just one or two members that want a group, would it be best just to keep the threads in General Gaming until the game becomes popular enough to make it into a group?

- At the end of this month we will likely be removing inactive gaming groups and merging the threads from them into General Gaming in any case. How long should a group be inactive before its contents (threads and posts) are merged into general gaming?

I think one-month is a very reasonable amount of time.

- Should we merge the gaming groups for each respective series into the "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" forum?

Or should we move "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" to Gaming Groups instead (and remove the existing gaming groups for them)?

- Maybe we should just keep both?

I think moving the World of Pokemon and Super Smash brothers should be moved into gaming groups, and once that's finished, we can merge the existing threads from the other groups into those two groups.

Should new threads posted into General Gaming be moved into a gaming group if one exists for that series already?
Or should we just let people decide where to post the thread?

This is where it can get confusing for me. For me, I think having too many gaming groups could defeat the purpose of having General Gaming. I'd rather have maybe 3-5 large, popular groups for the most actively discussed games (Pokemon, Smash, Animal Crossing, Mario, etc) for the specific threads, and perhaps general discussion threads for everything else, such as "Assassins Creed Black Flag Discussion Thread", "Playstation 5 News and Speculation", or "Splatoon Discussion".

I believe this is one of those situations where there is no one solution that will make everyone happy, so we should come to a solution that is acceptable for most of the members here.

Also, thank you @Spirit for always sparking great thread ideas, and always being polite, and caring for the well being of the forum's efficiency.

 

[GrooseIsLoose]

- Do we still want the groups able to be made and credited to individual users (with the creator name and description shown in the forum description) as they have been so far?

No, as the individual might leave the forums become inactive anytime as you see currently leaving their group in complete inactivity.

- Or should we only create them based on user suggestions for series' with popular and ongoing activity (threads/posts/discussions)?

Yes, A poll should be held in community area whether or not a gaming group should be created.

- At the end of this month we will likely be removing inactive gaming groups and merging the threads from them into General Gaming in any case. How long should a group be inactive before its contents (threads and posts) are merged into general gaming?

As Nagsa said one month is enough time.

- Should we merge the gaming groups for each respective series into the "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" forum?

- Or should we move "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" to Gaming Groups instead (and remove the existing gaming groups for them)?

There is no clear cut difference between https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/forums/pokémon.163/ and
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/forums/world-of-pokemon.106/
It's probably a good idea to merge them

Should new threads posted into General Gamin
Or should we just let people decide where to post the thread?

No as he said it would be confusing for the users as well as visitors who visit ZD where to look for threats.

 

[Spirit]

There have recently been some discussions about how we should be handling gaming groups. I've created this thread as suggested by @Spirit in another thread regarding the Animal Crossing Forum so that there is a clear place for discussion on it as there are quite a few points that go into it and I'd like to make sure that everyone has the chance to have a say if they wish to do so.

Gripes with them as they have been so far, is that they appear at the bottom of the page and are largely forgotten about, their purpose is unclear, there are too many inactive groups, and whether or not posts from general gaming should be moved into a gaming group if one exists for that series. Let's try and address each of these points:

Gaming Groups Position on the Forum Index Page
I have moved Gaming Groups from Subscription Forums and Groups to under General Chitchat (for now, pending feedback).

First, I moved it under General Gaming, but this caused it to appear as below. This means that two clicks would be required to reach each forum, which defeats the purpose of making them more visible and less forgotten about.

So, I moved it to appear underneath General Gaming but not as a sub-forum of General Gaming so that all the threads appear easily as so:

I'd like to hear what people think of this solution as it can be easily changed again if we want to.

Purpose of Gaming Groups
When gaming groups were created we had an add-on which allowed users to create their own groups. Now that is not available to us anymore and they are handled in the system the same way any other forum is. So we need to ask:

- Do we still want the groups able to be made and credited to individual users (with the creator name and description shown in the forum description) as they have been so far?

- Or should we only create them based on user suggestions for series' with popular and ongoing activity (threads/posts/discussions)?

- At the end of this month we will likely be removing inactive gaming groups and merging the threads from them into General Gaming in any case. How long should a group be inactive before its contents (threads and posts) are merged into general gaming?

- Should we merge the gaming groups for each respective series into the "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" forum?

- Or should we move "World of Pokemon" and "Super Smash Bros" to Gaming Groups instead (and remove the existing gaming groups for them)?

- Maybe we should just keep both?

Should new threads posted into General Gaming be moved into a gaming group if one exists for that series already?
Or should we just let people decide where to post the thread?

I'll post my own answers to these questions later. But I'd appreciate to hear from a few others too.

Oof, I can kiss goodbye to my Nier and Astral Chain groups through inactivity since only myself and maybe two others who are active care about those games.

I think a decision should probably be made as to what the big games are and have those like what Smash and Pokemon are now.

Mario would obviously be a good choice, Animal Crossing is big now but I wonder how fast interest will drop off...

That's the problem with Gaming Groups as a whole, you either get a couple of invested members like for the Nier and Astral Chain groups or larger event releases like Animal Crossing which may burn out fast and AC as a series doesn't get many new installments too often (though the seasonal updates may help).

Thing is, Splatoon 3 will probably be a big deal if it happens, but then that'll burn out too...

It'll be a shame for a group to become inactive and then be merged with gen gaming and its threads scattered just for news of the next game in that series to be announced and those threads long since lost.


Like @Nagasa says, I don't think there's a good answer either way.

Personally I like the idea of a 'Big Five'

Have them where Smash and World of Pokemon are now and three other heavy hitters, Animal Crossing is obviously one, Mario would be another, that gives us four.

Off the top of my head I can't think of another IP that'll remain active.

But have everything else just be in gen gaming.

Too many people will be disappointed to put the work into a group only for it to be merged into gen gaming after a month or so because of inactivity or lack of interest. So perhaps it's best not to have too many as we do now.

 

[Fraxinus]

I am in favor of the big five idea as proposed by Spirit. I don't think it should be something to constantly fiddle around with. Either we just put everything in general gaming and create prefixes for games, or some of the bigger series just get permanent subforums.

As creator of the Hollow Knight group, I would like to request its deletion in whatever ends up being done. It didn't fulfill what I hoped it would, and the majority of threads in it aren't particularly productive. Those can be deleted as well. Only a few seem to make sense to exist in a general gaming board, once removed from the context of the group.

 

[Rubik]

Personally I think there should only be as many subforums to General Gaming as are sustainable and any that cease to be sustainable should just have all their threads moved to General Gaming if their hype dies down. Most games are probably fine to just have a single thread in the general gaming section to facilitate most discussion with people occasionally making additional threads about specific things for them. Things like Pokemon and maybe Smash will probably always have a good reason to maintain their subforums because they have dedicated communities. Things like animal crossing and maybe something like a new splatoon or something could be the kinds of things that have enough activity that separating it while the game is still really active could prevent the gaming section from being cluttered, but it might be better to just move the threads back to general gaming when the game falls out of favor.

Most games probably don't need a subforum. I honestly don't think people are going to constantly talk about Mario or need all our Mario material indexed in a single location even though it's a major franchise. Pokemon will always be something people are talking about, as will smash. Something like Mario or Kirby will always be relevant, but it's rare that someone will be like "I want to see all the ZD Mario content in a single location" or "I don't want to people clogging the gaming section up with Mario posts".

Just my two cents.

 

[Storm_Echo]

Here's my input: I like what @Spirit says about a "Big Five" for perennial favorites like Mario, Smash Bros, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and maybe Final Fantasy or similar where you can expect reasonable activity and periodic releases of new games or content to keep the forum buzzing. However, I also think some consideration needs to be given to games which would benefit from user multiplayer coordination, like Monster Hunter (personal bias), Mario Kart, League of Legends, etc. This would be to guarantee that any "looking for game" type posts don't A. Get lost in or B. Clutter up the "General Gaming" area. We could evaluate those on a case-by-case / as needed basis, but I think if a thread begins to gain traction for a game with multiplayer components we open a gaming group for it.


As far as the "content display" questions raised by @Jimmu, I think there is minimal cost to having the Gaming Groups displayed under, but not as a subforum of, "General Gaming" as they are currently displayed. Folks who come here are going to like videogames in general, I think, and wouldn't be bothered by a subcategory for other games while the benefits (de-cluttering of gen gaming, centralizing of posts on single topics) are quite high. Since the downsides are small and the benefits are high, I think they should stay visible as-is. In fact, I actually think it'd be MORE detrimental to allow threads in General Gaming to get buried under posts that could otherwise be sorted by franchise in a gaming group, as it makes the premier "other" gaming thread more cluttered and spread out.

As far as "group governance" or creation, I think that both methods can be used. It's entirely viable to let somebody like Spirit run their smaller groups while also giving broader oversight to large groups like Pokemon. I say if we have active members of the community willing to dedicate time to growing something small, we should give them that ability so long as it doesn't negatively impact forum function - and as I've mentioned a few times, I think a Font 12 bulletpoint gaming group is extremely harmless as far as forum clarity goes.

It's actually for the same reasons as above that I think we should be generous putting franchises INTO the "Gaming Group" area, and similarly generous with removing them. 6 months inactivity AND a history of low activity would be enough to qualify a group a wasteland and remove it. However, I would give special consideration to forums that have had high activity in the past. For instance, if Animal Crossing dies down as Spirit mentioned, but gets periodic bursts of activity from events or new releases it would be worth keeping even if those activity bursts are >6 months apart and the group is completely dead otherwise.


In Summary: I don't think there's a problem with keeping even lightly active gaming groups (like the Astral Chain group) in their own subchannel, because we should be asking "what reasons are there to keep it" rather than "what reasons are there to get rid of it". They're rather unobtrusive to regular forum browsing while providing plentiful benefits. So, we should be lenient with allowing them to stay despite inactivity and be generous in allowing gaming groups to form.

 

[Jimmu]

Just an update regarding groups.

Due to low activity a number of gaming groups have been since merged in with general gaming. With so few gaming groups remaining, the remaining groups have been moved under General Gaming as subforums to join "Super Smash Bros" and "World of Pokemon". The groups that have been moved here include "Animal Crossing", "Fire Emblem", "Monster Hunter", and "Splatoon". These groups have not yet been merged in with general gaming due to small amounts of recent activity and because I didn't want to unilaterally make the decision to merge them - but I think a decent argument could be made that some or all four of them should just be swallowed by general gaming and that may happen soon or in the future depending on activity and feedback.

Social Groups have been pretty dead for a while now and therefore the section has also been removed. The small number of threads that were in gaming groups were moved to Lorule Lounge, Media, or the RP section depending on their content/relevance. The only social group with real activity still was "Anime" and therefore for the time being that has instead become a subforum (renamed Anime & Manga) listed under Media for now (since having only one social group would be a waste of space on the index page). As with the gaming groups mentioned above, this could potentially be swallowed by Media in the future depending on activity and feedback.

 

[GrooseIsLoose]

The only social group with real activity still was "Anime" and therefore for the time being that has instead become a subforum (renamed Anime & Manga) listed under Media for now

I appreciate not removing it , but it'd be great if you enabled scrapper messages on shout box.
And also I suggest moving this thread to that section

Which Anime Are You Currently Watching?

I appoligise is this thread exists (I couldn't see it in the search). So as the title says, Which Anime Are You Currently Watching? Last night I decided to watch an anime for the first time (excluding a few episodes of Pokémon I watched as a kid if that counts..), I decided to watch Sword...

zeldadungeon.net

 

[Jimmu]

I appreciate not removing it , but it'd be great if you enabled scrapper messages on shout box.
And also I suggest moving this thread to that section

Which Anime Are You Currently Watching?

I appoligise is this thread exists (I couldn't see it in the search). So as the title says, Which Anime Are You Currently Watching? Last night I decided to watch an anime for the first time (excluding a few episodes of Pokémon I watched as a kid if that counts..), I decided to watch Sword...

zeldadungeon.net

Done, and done