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Great Sea is Hyrule and TERMINA?

SuperMetroid

Eating Your Brains
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Melbourne, Australia
In all seriousness, Bradley does have a point. Apart from his use of Ockham's razor (which is purely bull----)*, I understand but don't agree with his argument. Zelda is a series that has so many holes and loose ends, you could almost effectively place the games in any order you choose, and connect the stories in numerous permutations. One can respect that he holds in-game information in higher regard than anything else. We all feel the same way, and I can give you an example: When Nintendo released the official timeline, they introduced the possibility that Link failed. No-body was happy. And if you were, you secretly weren't. The reason for this? There was no in-game evidence. If we didn't hold in-game information in higher regard than outside sources, why was everybody so distraught?

For this reason, I think Bradley has a point. Zelda is a game built entirely on perspective. That isn't the way developers wanted it, and possibly not how they want it now - who knew so much scrutiny would be directed at ALttP? Yet my interpretation is that Zelda is made for interpretation, which is a testament in itself. Zelda is meant to be a fun, interesting and immersive game, and I interpret it as such. Giving Termina the status of Hyrule's mirrored counterpart adds an extra layer of depth, as each of the characters are familiar to me, yet my relationship with them is vastly different.




*Ockham's Razor means practically nothing if you can't sum up ALL of the ramifications. That means every single one of them. Every time I see people stating Ockham's Razor, they rely on what they want to hear solely, simply because it's what seems right at first. The Legend of Zelda series is particularly difficult to apply Ockham's razor, simply because there are so many holes and loose ends. That's why, every time I hear someone stating Ockham's razor, I feel ashamed for the person using it. Did you remember that you assumed that outside information is wrong? Did you also remember that you assumed 'different world' meant of the same land as Hyrule - you can't assume that real world logic applies, where wormholes and separate dimensions are only theoretical. And frankly, Ockham's razor can go eat itself to death if it destroys my experience.
 
And in-game I feel it's obvious Termina is an alternate world because it visually conveys it quite well. Not only do the shapes and colors going past him in his initial fall and the twisting corridor scene obviously convey a portal of some sort but the sheer fact that Link fell down a hole and the limited distance he traveled inside that hole it would be impossible for him to show up in a clock tower in the middle of a city without some transportation magic being used. Or else for some reason a giant cliff is missing right next to Clock Town where the Lost Woods is supposed to be.
 

Cfrock

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Yes, in-game evidence is the most important but the evidence from in the game supports the notion of Termina being a parallel dimension. And just because one source is more improtant than another doesn't mean the other should be completely discounted the way bradley refutes the game manuals and Hyrule Historia.

bradley has given us no reason or explanation for why he disagrees other than "I have seen no evidence". Well, now he has and his response has simply been to childishly say everyone else is wrong while refusing to explain why he thinks he is right.

I'm all for theorising about the Zelda franchise but there are many things set in stone that will not change and can only be interpreted one way. Theories should be built around what we know and bradley's isn't. I wasn't trying to force him to accept a different view, just giving him the evidence he told us he hadn't seen. He chose not to accept it so that's that.

Using Occam's Razor is silly since the idea of Termina being west of Hyrule has far more contradictions and issues than Termina being a parallel dimension. Why do the people of Hyrule not know of the Giants? How did Link fall down a deep hole and yet emerge in the centre of a thriving city? Why does Link see the same faces, but they belong to different people? Why are Koume and Kotake completely different to their Hyrulian counter-parts? If Link only went to Termina after being returned to a child, surely the falling moon was still a threat when he actually went on his Ocarina of Time adventure. After all, Link still had to deal with Ganondorf. Why then, with no one to stop it, did the falling moon not destroy everything?
All of these questions can be answered with one sentence. Termina is a parallel dimension. That is the simplest explanation and so even Occam's Razor disagrees with bradley.
 
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Even fact is subjective. One person may disagree with another on how evidence is interpreted and what the facts are. Besides, I didn't come in here looking to start an argument, or change this thread. Its amazing how a few words completely changed the subject of this thread.
Fine, lets say Termina is a parallel dimension, which it probably is (officially, but I like to interpret things my own way) in the canon. As many have said in this thread before, I think water could have flowed through the portal to Termina, but Termina likely flooded more slowly than Hyrule, since the portal is obviously limited in size.
I'm sure Termina was also flooded, but it would not have been flooded as fast as Hyrule was, and the people of Termina would have probably had more time to run and save themselves and their loved ones. Or, perhaps since it was an alternate universe that developed in a similar way to Hyrule, perhaps it flooded in the same way Hyrule did.
 

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
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Ultimately, even if Termina did flood, this wouldn't mean it suddenly became a part of the great sea. It would just mean the place met a depressing end on the adult timeline.
 

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
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Zelda canon consists of: the games, the manuals and hyrule historia, the manga is not, the cartoon isn't either, dev quotes aren't either, yes, the editing is made by third parties, but the informaton is right from from the developers, and saying that there is no story significance to the reused models is claiming authority over what is relevant to the story and what isn't, I'm sorry to disapoint you, but the whole Termina=West of Hyrule has been shot down before this discussion started
 
B

Benjamin

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Hey I saw this thread on the internet after a late night random Zelda idea.

I completely agree with the theory of Termina being West of Hyrule. There's nothing saying what's out there at all. I don't give a crap what the Zelda History book says or the manual really. I only take what happens IN GAME as sheer fact. Playing the game since forever, there's never any mention of the 'alternate' universe thing, in the manual probably (Which I'm sure we lost), but again the writers can write any dang thing they want and people like this take it as fact. It's like the Star Wars fan fic always being writ and if they get George Lucas's "Okay." than suddenly it's 100% absolutely true. BOLLOCKS!

Maybe it's my sense of adventure that makes me enjoy this theory the best, but I know there's many others out there who share this belief, and nooo it's not naivety.
 

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
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I'd suggest at least skimming through the last 2 pages of this topic for counter-points to your belief. I also don't like to just accept quotes and outside sources, so things I had written previously in this topic were to do with what the games show us, and not how a book interprets.
 

Justac00lguy

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Hey I saw this thread on the internet after a late night random Zelda idea.

I completely agree with the theory of Termina being West of Hyrule. There's nothing saying what's out there at all. I don't give a crap what the Zelda History book says or the manual really. I only take what happens IN GAME as sheer fact. Playing the game since forever, there's never any mention of the 'alternate' universe thing, in the manual probably (Which I'm sure we lost), but again the writers can write any dang thing they want and people like this take it as fact. It's like the Star Wars fan fic always being writ and if they get George Lucas's "Okay." than suddenly it's 100% absolutely true. BOLLOCKS!

Maybe it's my sense of adventure that makes me enjoy this theory the best, but I know there's many others out there who share this belief, and nooo it's not naivety.
Im afraid this makes little sense whatsoever!

In a series where connections and continuity is very rare and it's only recently when things are being explained to us. You can't simply say that you don't think the Hyrule Historia is factual information, everything in here is canon to the series and it explained a lot, of course it may have weakened the idea lf theorizing and speculation but now with more information and facts we can make more logical theories.

Even without the HH there is still a lot of in game evidence that connects Termina to be a parallel dimension to Hyrule. If you choose not to believe something that's fine, however Im afraid it's true and basically what your saying is that 2+2=5 because Eff logic.
 

Ghirahimiscool

Cucco Butt
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
I think it could be Termina too. Theres a lot of stuff from Majoras Mask thats in Wind Waker. So it could be Termina too.
 
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I think that termina is connexted to hyrule just not physicaly, because each world had a possibly apocalyptic event so the two worlds could mirror each other more than a few ways. In WW hyrule is flooded, it makes sense termina would also be flooded, but there would need to be some link between them. PH possibly links us to the adult timeline equivalent of termina, similar to the great sea yet different. so termina could have its own great sea but isnt part of the great sea above hyrule.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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I feel like maybe this is thread Necromancy. Anyway I will attempt to spark some kind of discussion.

Obviously Hyrule is connected to Termina by some sort of inter-dimensional portal. We know Link in MM found it by accident (and probably couldn't find the portal again). The only people who seem to know were it is exactly and how to freely use it to cross between dimensions is The Happy Mask Salesman and Skull Kid. Now let's say for the sake of arguing that one of those people (more than likely the Happy Mask Salesman) started bringing over some Terminian culture which would rub off on the Hylians - the importance of masks maybe? This can easily explain the masks on the wall in the Nintendo Gallery.

Tingle is tricky though, why would Tingle be in Hyrule? Is it the same Tingle from MM? This is were we must simply disregard things, he is obviously in the game as just a cameo appearence it isn't like he should have significance (because then one could maybe argue Beetle is a immortal being who was alive during Skyward Sword and also during Wind Waker... see my point?).
 

Lozjam

A Cool, Cool Mountain
Joined
May 24, 2015
I only read the first and last page of the thread, so forgive me for being redundant, but here is why these claims are false.
As for a postal system, these are very much disconnected!
They had a postal system as early as Minish Cap with a mailman no less.

Regarding the masks. We are forgetting that Mask culture was already becoming integrated in Hyrule due to the Happy Mask Salesman in OoT. So masks were already starting to become crazed in Hylian culture.
Tingle is just a recurring character, nothing more. The original Tingle would have been dead by the time WW came to pass.
 

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