• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Ghirahim=Best Villian in Zelda?

Kirino

Tatakae
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
Ghirahim is quite a bit different from previous villians in the Zelda series. He had a different motivation, and acted differently. This is a good thing to me, as i've never really been that fond of Zelda's previous villians. Ganondorf looks cool, has interesting powers, and I like him, but his personality is boring, and he's not much of a character. He is for the most part, a steryotypical villian, whos only motivation is power, and will do anything to get it. He has little personality, and is pretty much evil for the sake of being evil. While some might argue that this is how a villian should be, I think a villian should have more personality, and a good motivator. Ganondorf was handled much better in Wind Waker, but for the most part he has been flat.

Ghirahim, however, is quite the opposite. He is an interesting villian who simply oozes personality. He does all of this while still staying true to what he was supposed to be, a villian. Not only that, but he does it well, and is an intimidating foe, who is still quite evil.

Ghirahim has tons of personality and character development. At the beginning of the game, he is calm and cool. He thinks Link is weak, and has no chance of beating him. He highly underestimates Link, and lets him live after the battle. As the game goes on, however, he begins to realize that Link is a threat, and becomes serious. By the time Link beats the third dungeon, Ghirahim gets angry, and vows to kill Link. Ghirahim slowly changes from being calm and collected, to being angry, and increasingly becomes more and more frustrated. He gets to a breaking point in the final battle with him, in which he gets furious, and even a little insane. Ghirahim shows tons of character development throughout the whole game.

Ghirahim has far more personality than any past villian. He gets angry, he laughs, he can be cocky and arrogant, and even acts sarcastic sometimes. During the first and second encounter, he mocks and laughs at Link, not acknowleging him as a threat. He also seems prone to emotional outbursts, and can't control his anger. He hates to lose, and gets very angry when he does, such as when he vows to kill Link after he ruins his chances to reach Zelda.

What I also like about Ghirahim is his relationship with Link. It's obvious both hate each other. Link obviously hates Ghirahim, and Ghirahim starts to really hate Link. I always like it when the hero and villian have history or animosity towards each other, as it helps to make things more interesting, and makes it feel more personal.

What do you think of Ghirahim? How do you think he stacks up when compared to the other villians of the series? Do you like the aproach that was taken with Ghirahim, and would you like to see him, or another villian like him again?
I believe these traits make him a much more interesting villian, and overall better villian. He
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
I disagree...we've seen this villain goal before. Off the top of my head I know aLttP, TP, and OoX had it.

And at the start of the game, Ghirahim views Link as a weak measly human...and at the end of the game....he views Link as a weak measly human. Demise was the one to acknowledge Link, not Ghirahim.
 

SNOlink

I'm baack. Who missed me?
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Location
United States, Michigan
First off, as DarkestLink has pointed out, this isn't a new thing. The one I immediately thought of is Chancellor Cole, though. I personally like Ganondorf more. You say that he was pretty stereotypical throughout most of the games with the exception of Wind Waker. The thing about Ganondorf is that you can apply most of what he is there to all of the other games with him in it. He is (in a way) developed over multiple games.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
Ghirahim was certainly one of the better villains from the franchise but I don't view him as the best. For me that would be Majora/Skull Kid, but this isn't the place to explain why I think that.

While Ghirahim's motivations aren't original, he had so much personality and character to him that I couldn't help but adore him. He added a great deal of enjoyment to Skyward Sword for me and I would say that the game would not be the same without him.

So, for me, he's one of the best but not the best.
 

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
I think a villian should have more personality, and a good motivator.

This is the statement that caught my eye and I think it centralizes your post. In what category are we rating these villains? In terms of "dynamic character" I would say that Ghirahim does indeed win. It's not an easy race mind you. As others have mentioned, previous Zelda villains have had dynamic changes, but I Personally don't think anyone did it quite as much as Ghirahim. That being said, does having an interesting Personality necessarily make you a better villain? While Ganondorf's Personality may not be as "unique" as Ghirahim's, it should be gathered that Ganondorf's Personality fits him perfectly as an all powerful warlord. The man has that classic, cliche villain attitude because that's what he is, a classic cliche villain. While Ghirahim's Personality works for him well, I don't think its fair to say Ganondorf's sis worse when it fits his character perfectly.

The last part of that sentence is "good motivator." Personally, I wasn't as motivated by Ghirahim to do quests and you could argue that the reason is simply because he isn't motivating. As interesting as Ghirahim is, he doesn't really accomplish his goal (get Zelda and revive Demise) until a last ditch effort at the end of the game. The one time the atmosphere really feels motivating because of Ghirahim is during the horde battle. Anything else that he did that was worth motivating Link, Link found out about after it had already been done. Thus, the chance to make our hero angry/upset/worried is now gone because all those bad things happened in the past which means there's no trying to prevent it. One might want to seek revenge, but, as I said, Link generally knows that Zelda is safe. Because Ghirahim doesn't currently have her, there is not much reason to be upset at him in terms of "revenge." Ganondorf, on the other hand, did things in past games that motivated the hero moreso. In OoT, he destroyed Hyrule (including Link's home) and put all of Link's friends in danger, doing all this and then capturing Zelda right as Link finally finds her. Ganondorf in WW kidnaps Link's sister as well as kidnaps Zelda after Links long quest of preparing to protect her. Ganondorf in TP does a similar aspect to Ghirahim, in that he doesn't bring motivation until the last minute, but I Personally feel his end moment had a bigger impact to the story. (Capture Zelda, kill Midna, etc) but even if you disagree with me, that is but one example. So Ghirahim himself I wouldn't call much of a motivator, especially when compared to Ganondorf. He's better at making people feel uncomfortable than motivating them to stop him.

Looking at these, I'd say Ganondorf is the better villain by your standards. While he may not be as "dynamic" his character fits just as well, if not moreso, than Ghirahim's and he's is better at motivating a hero.


Now, stepping away from you post, lets look at some other concepts. Ganondorf rose to the King of Hyrule through careful planning and corruption. In most games, he stealthily works his way up, despite being given so much power. Even when killed or captured, he finds a way back. He's so powerful that it takes all of the most powerful beings in Hyrule to stop him and in WW, the goddesses couldn't do anything but slow him down with a flood.

Ghirahim was a self proclaim Demon Lord (As told to us by Faron). Much like Ganondorf's early time in OoT, Ghirahim is just now establishing a name for himself. Again like Ganondorf, he is able to summon monsters at will (both minions and bosses). His methods differ from Ganondorf in that while Ganondorf only takes measures necessary to accomplish his goal, making it so some don't even hear about what he's done, Ghirahim goes all out, sending hordes of monsters to wreak havoc when his goal is "simply" capturing one little girl. One thing to also take note is Ghirahim lost to Faron. True he put up a tough fight and managed to heavily damage Faron but compared to someone like Ganondorf who's killed a sage, given people the power to steal light from spirits, and caused an entire "world" to be flooded simply because of how powerful he is, Ghirahim isn't stacking too high.

We can look at these villains one of two ways. 1) Ganondorf has a systematically better way of doing things. He only uses enough power as necessary. He has accomplished many goals during his time doing so. Given the reputation he's made for himself and the power he's demonstrated, we can call him the better villain. 2) Ghirahim had one goal, and while his method to doing that goal may have been sloppy and overdone, in the end, he accomplished his major goal, something Ganondorf doesn't do (unless you look at the third timeline).

In the end, I feel Ganondorf is a better villain simply because he is better at handling events around him. The G-man is both powerful and manipulative, using both his brain and brawn. While he may not have accomplished his ultimate goal (unless you count the third timeline) I don't think that gives Ghirahim a one up on him. If I get a 70% on a test after studying my hardest and you get a 95% from purely guessing, does that make you a better student? While your method was worse than mine, this one time it worked out for you moreso than it did for me but I still have what is understood as the better method. Ghirahim's method of doing things is a bit sloppy. Honestly, he seems new at this whole "Villain" thing and I feel he could learn a thing or two from the true G-man. And this is just looking at Ganondorf. This post would be much longer if I included Skull Kid, Vatti, and other villains.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
First off, as DarkestLink has pointed out, this isn't a new thing. The one I immediately thought of is Chancellor Cole, though. I personally like Ganondorf more. You say that he was pretty stereotypical throughout most of the games with the exception of Wind Waker. The thing about Ganondorf is that you can apply most of what he is there to all of the other games with him in it. He is (in a way) developed over multiple games.

Ahhh yes, Chancellor Cole. I forgot about that.

Overall Ghirahim stood out more so than some other villains due to his personality. But Chancellor Cole also had that insane-style personality. In some ways it worked. It made them stand out as character. But in other ways, it was just unrealistic. I couldn't help but question 2 things:

1) WHY was Ghirahim like this? Why was he so flamboyant? It's weird.

2) Why was he helping Demise? What did he have to gain?

Ganon was like a son to Twinrova.

Zant was in as a sort of 50/50 deal. Ganondorf gets the world of light and Zant gets the Twilight Realm and more powers.

Cole worshiped Malladus like Ghirahim worships Demise, but Cole sorta got a ride along. Ghirahim ended up being turned into a tool and he KNEW this was going to happen.

Byrne just wanted power. Plain and simple.
 

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
1) WHY was Ghirahim like this? Why was he so flamboyant? It's weird.

2) Why was he helping Demise? What did he have to gain?

1) I don't know. I hope I've been helpful.

2)There are many times throughout both literature and actual life where people are so dedicated to a being/entity/Person that they will serve them without question. Even so dedicated as to sacrifice themselves, so long as their leader is happy. It's not strange for Ghirahim to serve Demise considering he was created by him. (At least I think he was, I don't have a quote that proves it). It's a little like starstruck, but more intense. This is actually a very realistic trait.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Yeah, he definitely is the best Zelda villain so far. He's not anything special when it comes to great literature, but then again... no Zelda character is.

He was really great for Zelda standards, though. He had a lot more character development and plot relevance throughout the game than any other villain the series had had before, resulting in a more believable threat. A lot of people claim that he was just another Zant, but Zant was just a pawn from the start. His powers weren't his own. Ghirahim acted on his own accord and had his own powers, so there's a pretty significant difference between the two. They're both servants, yes, but one is a pawn while the other is not. (That's not to say Zant was a bad villain, mind you, just pointing out the differences between the two.)

I could go on for a while, but I don't feel it necessary. The point is Ghirahim was more involved and necessary to the plot than any other past villain in the series, and his role was executed flawlessly. Again, he's nothing special in terms of great literature, but he's fantastic for Zelda's standards. I only hope Nintendo keeps making its villains better from here on out.
 

Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I didn't like Ghirahim. To me, he's like a knockoff of Legato Bluesummers - a much creepier villain in my favorite anime and manga series. (Trigun being an adult series - Legato could get away with a lot of family-unfriendly things that Ghirahim's existance only hints at. I'm not talking "sexual" stuff, either, I mean the torture he obviously wanted to do... Legato could actually do it).

Ghira.... just strikes me as like this horrible "creeper" sterotype that walked straight out of some fangirl's bad yaoi fanfiction. Of course, there are loads of fanfics for Skyward Sword now that are just that.... (I know what to avoid by reading summaries, if you like it, fine for you, it's just that woobie-fying villains and torture-porn aren't my thing).

Ghirhahim is funny, has some personality to him and has loads of wonderfully "Narm"-y lines, but he just strikes me as being a knockoff of a villain-type I've seen before. He really isn't all that creative... sure, other villains in Zelda are pretty much a "type," too, but I think this is a series where "mysterious and/or basic take-over-the-world tyrant-type" WORKS best.

I still love Ganondorf/Ganon. He just strikes me as being the consumate villain - power hungry, tyrannical, a bit of class to him until he gets really angry and goes into full-boar action, and even then it's a portrait of raw POWER. He's also got those hefty muscles and that noble nose. He may be sterotypical, but he's sterotypical in a way that makes me take him seriously. Or something.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I didn't like Ghirahim. To me, he's like a knockoff of Legato Bluesummers - a much creepier villain in my favorite anime and manga series. (Trigun being an adult series - Legato could get away with a lot of family-unfriendly things that Ghirahim's existance only hints at. I'm not talking "sexual" stuff, either, I mean the torture he obviously wanted to do... Legato could actually do it).

I don't get how this makes Ghirahim a knock-off. Just because Ghirahim was in a family-friendly series doesn't mean he's any less evil or dangerous. He's not any less violent than Ganondorf or any other Zelda villain is, nor is he more cliche than them.

Let me stress that you're not inclined to like Ghirahim as a character in any way, but I don't think your reasoning is justifiable. It comes across as extreme partiality.
 

Igos du Ikana

Maldorok
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
USA
So as not to carry on for too long, I'll sum this up in a few sentences. I'd have to say Demise is the best villain, partially due to my theory about him. Now, Demise is the incarnation ofevil, whereas other villains work for the main villain, which I believe is Demise. Ghirahim is good, but he is just a pawn, similar to skull kid from Majora's Mask.
 

Igos du Ikana

Maldorok
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
USA
He's not a pawn. He acts out of his own will. The Skull Kid was being controlled by Majora's Mask. Ghirahim was not being controlled by Demise. There's not really any room for debate on that subject.

Bad choice of words on my behalf. What I mean is Ghirahim blindly works for Demise(at least to my knowledge), whereas Demise works for himself. The Skull Kid thing was a bit much, but I had to stress my point.
 

Sydney

The Good Samaritan
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Location
Canberra, Australia
In my opinion, Ghirahim is NOT the best villain of all time, but regardless he's still a good villain. Saying he's not the best does not automatically mean he's the worst, keep that in mind. I think a lot of people get the wrong idea about Ghirahim.
Igos du Ikana said:
Ghirahim is good, but he is just a pawn, similar to skull kid from Majora's Mask.
This is where some people get the wrong idea about him. He wasn't exactly a pawn, but I wouldn't say he was far from it. As JuicieJ said, Ghirahim does act on his on will and is capable to make his own decisions, but it's evident that his actions are driven by the need to revive his master, Demise. Another thing I believe people are confused about Ghirahim is mixing up his persistence with being repetitive. Ghirahim was extremely persistent when it came to the Goddess, Hylia, and reviving his fallen master, Demise. Link had to battle him 3 times, each time was different and more difficult which grew with his persistence. Ghirahim had his flaws, causing him to not be the best, but he's definitely a great villain.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom