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Azure Sage

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The police thing I'll admit is a little overdone. People are taking it out on all police, and not just the bad ones.
You almost never see the good cops speaking out against the bad ones, though. And even when they do, the get heat from the other cops. I read a story (can't find it anymore) that a cop made a sign calling out the terrible things police do, and the Pittsburgh police (iirc) were furious with him.

Too many people think criticizing the police is the same as attacking them and degrading them. Not that a lot of the police aren't attacking and degrading (and killing) people themselves, but a lot of people especially major news outlets don't know the difference between criticism and insults and aren't willing to admit that there's a problem just because the problem doesn't affect them. That needs to stop.

EDIT: I found the picture of the cop who held the sign that made the Pittsburgh police furious:
http://mic.com/articles/107660/angry-pittsburgh-police-reacted-to-this-photograph-in-a-troubling-and-telling-way?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social
 
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Ventus

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when they do, the get heat from the other cops.
hence
You almost never see the good cops speaking out against the bad ones
It's a viscous cycle. Many people just don't under that being the good cop has worse rammifications. They can't just stand up and say "booo you suck." The cops have a brotherhood almost. And it even comes down to them losing their jobs for saying the wrong things.
 

DekuNut

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It's a viscous cycle. Many people just don't under that being the good cop has worse rammifications. They can't just stand up and say "booo you suck." The cops have a brotherhood almost. And it even comes down to them losing their jobs for saying the wrong things.
Exactly. They don't have much of a chance to. While speaking out against bad cops is important, providing for their families come first.
 

Garo

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Exactly. They don't have much of a chance to. While speaking out against bad cops is important, providing for their families come first.
It's not a matter of there being "bad cops" (although there certainly are), but rather a matter of there being a systemic, institutional problem with law enforcement. It's not about bad individuals, it's about a system that unfairly and unequally penalizes citizens of racial minorities and lower class (which, due to systemic failures in other systems, are statistically more likely to be racial minorities as well). If it were a case of there being some bad individual members of law enforcement, then we wouldn't see - time and time again - a statistically significant increase in the number of times black people are arrested and imprisoned (and far too often shot dead) compared to white people, especially when evidence shows that white people are more likely to commit the crimes black people are imprisoned for.
 

DekuNut

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It's not a matter of there being "bad cops" (although there certainly are), but rather a matter of there being a systemic, institutional problem with law enforcement. It's not about bad individuals, it's about a system that unfairly and unequally penalizes citizens of racial minorities and lower class (which, due to systemic failures in other systems, are statistically more likely to be racial minorities as well). If it were a case of there being some bad individual members of law enforcement, then we wouldn't see - time and time again - a statistically significant increase in the number of times black people are arrested and imprisoned (and far too often shot dead) compared to white people, especially when evidence shows that white people are more likely to commit the crimes black people are imprisoned for.
You speak the truth about "bad cops". Although, may I remind you that the only reason we hear more about black guys and white cops is because the media makes a big deal out of it; white guys shoot white guys and black guys shoot white guys all the time, and you never hear about it because it isn't a "big deal".
 

Azure Sage

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You speak the truth about "bad cops". Although, may I remind you that the only reason we hear more about black guys and white cops is because the media makes a big deal out of it; white guys shoot white guys and black guys shoot white guys all the time, and you never hear about it because it isn't a "big deal".
Actually, we never hear about it because the black guys that kill white guys are actually convicted successfully and properly while the majority of the white people that kill blacks are not.
 

Ventus

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Actually, we never hear about it because the black guys that kill white guys are actually convicted successfully and properly while the majority of the white people that kill blacks are not.
This is an important question: who are the "white people" that are killing/have killed blacks that are walking free, the big target of former officer Wilson put aside?
 

Azure Sage

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This is an important question: who are the "white people" that are killing/have killed blacks that are walking free, the big target of former officer Wilson put aside?
The murderers of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, and the many, many more black citizens killed by police since the Ferguson incident. There hasn't been a whole week since Mike Brown's death that a black person hasn't been killed by a cop, and if I recall correctly pretty much all of their killers are still free.
 

Azure Sage

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DekuNut

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There hasn't been a whole week since Mike Brown's death that a black person hasn't been killed by a cop, and if I recall correctly pretty much all of their killers are still free.
Yes, but that happens anyways. The difference is that it's a big thing now, and the media is pushing it in our faces. If Ferguson hadn't happened, I'm sure that they would still die, and you wouldn't know or care.

I have a question: is your guys's problem the "police brutality" or the "racism problem"?
 

Azure Sage

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Yes, but that happens anyways. The difference is that it's a big thing now, and the media is pushing it in our faces. If Ferguson hadn't happened, I'm sure that they would still die, and you wouldn't know or care.

I have a question: is your guys's problem the "police brutality" or the "racism problem"?
Saying we wouldn't care is something I highly doubt, but you might be right about us not having heard about them. I think of the Ferguson incident as the straw that broke the camel's back.

And my problem is both. There's far too much intermittent racism in the system, and police brutality happens far too often in general.
 

Garo

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Yes, but that happens anyways. The difference is that it's a big thing now, and the media is pushing it in our faces. If Ferguson hadn't happened, I'm sure that they would still die, and you wouldn't know or care.

I have a question: is your guys's problem the "police brutality" or the "racism problem"?
They're the same problem. The police are overmilitarized in general, but are not only more likely to stop and question black citizens than white citizens, but are also more likely to see black citizens as a threat on their life and use lethal force against them. The question of race is inextricable from the question of police brutality, and attempts to do so are narrow-sighted at best.
 

DekuNut

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Saying we wouldn't care is something I highly doubt
Point taken. But you do see my point.

The question of race is inextricable from the question of police brutality, and attempts to do so are narrow-sighted at best.
I disagree. There were complaints of police brutality beforehand, and now the two are directly connected in the minds of most, even if police brutality happens against all races. You have no proof that it's only black citizens they see as threats. It's just that people are focusing on that problem right now.
 

Azure Sage

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You have no proof that it's only black citizens they see as threats.
There's actually statistical evidence of that. And it's also plainly obviously shown in their actions. Example: police couldn't manage to bring in Eric Garner alive for selling cigarettes, yet they are able to bring in serial killers alive just fine.
 

DekuNut

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There's actually statistical evidence of that. And it's also plainly obviously shown in their actions. Example: police couldn't manage to bring in Eric Garner alive for selling cigarettes, yet they are able to bring in serial killers alive just fine.
All right, I'll give it to you there. I'll come up with some other argument later :P
 

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