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Ganondorf a Shiekah? - The Gerudo Shiekah Connection

Discussion in 'Zelda Theory' started by Castle, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    So it is well known that a male is born to the Gerudo tribe but once every 100 years, and by law that boy shall be their king. The particulars of how this works exactly are unknown. Is it a unique quirk of Gerudo reproductive physiology? Is it due to their matriarchal society only permitting one boy into their ranks at a given time? All that is known for certain is that the Gerudo take men from throughout Hyrule as "boyfriends" and that is presumably where their children come from.

    There is a long standing theory, supported by in-game evidence in Ocarina of Time, that Malon the daughter of farmer Talon of Lon Lon Ranch, may be the daughter of a Gerudo. At least cursory evidence of Gerudo parentage is alluded to, but the nature of Ganondorf's parentage remains a mystery.

    Koume and Kotake, the matrons and tribal leaders of the Gerudo, are specifically stated to be Ganondorf's surrogate parents, with no mention of his birth mother or father. Of course, Ganondorf's mother would have been a Gerudo woman. But what of his father?

    The enigmatic Shiekah tribe have connections, either direct or vaguely implied, to almost every facet of Hyrule's history, culture, and nearly every major race of peoples, and the Gerudo are no exception. In fact, second only the Hylains, the Gerudo exhibit the most cultural connections to the Shiekah off all Hyrule's peoples. The Gerudo possess knowledge of the Lens of Truth - a secret Shiekah invention - and indeed the secret to traversing their sand-shrouded desert is the Lens itself. Not only is this mentioned specifically by a Gerudo warden tasked with keeping the passage into the desert, but a sign at a travelers waystation presumably built by the Gerudo long ago states this as well. Any average Gerudo can probably traverse the Haunted Wasteland to and from the Fortress and Oasis by knowledge passed down, but the Shiekah Lens is obviously a known pathfinder.

    The Gerudo further exhibit evidence of their connection to the Shiekah, most notably in their use of magic. Magic is relatively uncommon in the Era of the Hero of Time. What magic exists is either ancient and kept by the fairies as blessings, wielded by the Royal Family as a sort of divine magic, or more extensively by the warlock Ganondorf and his mothers Koume and Kotake as a sort of arcane magic. The Sheikah, as well, are known to use or said to be wielders of dark magic. Culturally, magic has little to no place among the Zora, Gorons, Kokiri, or average Hylian. Only the Shiekah and Gerudo use the same type of magic extensively, and the Gerudo's use is limited solely to Ganondorf and his surrogate mothers.

    My theory is simple. Ganondorf's father is a Shiekah man. And it is possible that the Gerudo - principally under the direction of the centuries old Koume and Kotake, matrons of the Gerudo tribe - have been fraternizing with the Shiekah to bear the men who would be their Kings. Koume and Kotake's magic would be derived from the Shiekah and passed on to Ganondorf and the kings of the Gerudo under Koume and Kotake's direction. And Shiekah magic, such as the Lens, would be used in the development and preservation of Gerudo society.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Spirit

    Spirit

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    Ummm yes?

    I've never thought about it but the magic and the Lens of Truth are good points.

    I imagine that the Gerudo would have a lot of cultural crossover going off how many people they kidnapped to procreate with, though the Sheikah link does seem stronger than most.

    I dont know if it would be that they kidnapped enough Sheikah men that the Gerudo began to use magic and items like the Lens or if the two races were close at some point before breaking away from each other.

    The Sheikah must still be a little close to the Gerudo since Impa is a Sheikah and Ganondorf serves the King of Hyrule in OoT and Impa hasnt said to anyone 'bad idea, Gerudo men are nut jobs'. So it may not have been too long ago that the Sheikah and Gerudo parted ways for the Sheikah links to still be felt by the Gerudo.

    Everytime we see the Gerudo moving forward from OoT they appear less magical and Sheikah-ish.
     
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  3. DragonEleven

    DragonEleven

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    This whole theory is based on the assumption that the ability to use magic is inherited biologically, but that may not be the case.
    In BotW, most Sheikah exhibit no magical ability whatsoever, yet all of those who joined the Yiga Clan appear to be able to use at least a small amount of magic... and it's also implied that Master Kohga learnt his magic from his great-grandfather... so it's highly possible that their magic is passed on through teachings rather than biology.
    If this is the case, and considering that the older appearances of the Gerudo depict them as thieves/bandits, then I think it's more likely that the Gerudo simply stole the magic teachings (possibly in the form of a text) from the Sheikah (along with the Lens of Truth).

    As for Ganondorf's ancestry, I think it's unlikely (but not impossible) that he's half-Sheikah seeing as the Sheikah were believed to be extinct by the time of OoT... so being half-Sheikah would have been a big deal, and he would likely have made the most of that, but he doesn't.

    If there was a Gerudo-Sheikah hybrid within the games, my money would be on Kohga... this would explain his desire to resurrect Ganon, his proximity to Gerudo Town, and the fact that he has his clan steal the Thunder Helm (a Gerudo heirloom) even though he doesn't appear to have any use for it.
     
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  4. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    @DragonEleven I never meant to imply that the Sheikah and Gerudo magic was an inherited trait. In fact my theory hinges on the assumption that the dark magic both clans exhibit are learned knowledge which would explain why it is only wielded by Ganondorf, Koume and Kotake among the Gerudo (though I do believe the royal family's divine magic is inherited, that has nothing to do with this theory). The Gerudo and Sheikah's magic isn't racially inherited but rather culturally exchanged. Which would be unique for a couple of clans of secretive xenophobes.

    Still, the prospect of the Gerudo's Sheikah magic and knowledge having been stolen has merit, given that the Gerudo are thieves after all. They may have been in the possession of the Lens of Truth for a time before the Sheikah stole it back. This would explain why the Lens is back in Sheikah possession. Or perhaps the Man With the Eye cavorted with the Gerudo and allowed them possession of the Lens.

    I don't know what you mean by Ganondorf "would have made the most of [his Sheikah ancestry]." And the Sheikah were only believed to be extinct in Ocarina of Time. They're obviously not, since because Impa. They're also ninjas and secret shadow agents for the Royal Family. It figures they'd be good at making people think they've disappeared.

    And Breath of the Wild's Yiga clan is a subject I deliberately left out of my original post given that the connection is so obvious I was hoping someone would bring it up. It is the most blatant Sheikah connection to Calanondorfmise to date.
     
  5. DragonEleven

    DragonEleven

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  6. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    This always struck me as odd in general. The Dorf nukes Castle Town but allows the Hylians to resettle to Kakariko, where he pretty much leaves them alone. Kakariko is Hyrule's oldest known Hylian settlement and the former homeland of the Sheikah. As a thief and enemy of the Royal Family and Hyrule he's gotta understand the significance of the town. But maybe that's just it? Maybe he does. If Ganondorf is privy to Sheikah knowledge of the Well and the Lens and Shadow Temple he might know that the village has nothing of immediate value to him and even that the town's subterranean horrors could one day be set loose upon the unsuspecting Hylian denizens of Kakariko.

    While it would make strategic sense for Ganondorf to want to use Kakariko as a Gerudo outpost, the Dorf always struck me as the kinda guy who likes his space. I mean, he lays waste to Castle town to clear out the citizens of Hyrule and erects his own bachelor pad on an island in a crater of lava. If that doesn't scream "LEAVE ME ALONE!" I dunno what does. The Gerudo seem to operate better as secretive xenophobes which is why they're probably better off staying in the desert (where Koume and Kotake can continue to carry out their brainwashing.)

    As for Ganondorf using his Sheikah heritage to get close to the Royal Family, that would assume that admitting his Sheikah heritage wouldn't be betraying some big secret. After all, Ganondorf is known as a Gerudo first and foremost. If the Sheikah have been conspiring to cavort with the Gerudo I figure it'd be something both clans would want to keep a secret to everybody. Same goes for if the Gerudo have been stealing Sheikah artifacts and knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  7. Wazurau

    Wazurau Cacodemonic Sage

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    Isn't all of this nullified by the fact that he is "an ancient demon reborn" (said by Zelda herself)? Which would grant him special powers from birth/reincarnation.
     
  8. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    Yeeeaaaaaah, which is why I choose to ignore that nonsense. After all it is reason no. 1223623467 why Suckward Sword got its name.
     
  9. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    I must say, this is a very interesting theory. However one of your major points to attempt establishing a connection between the Sheikah and Gerudo is flawed.

    The Gerudo never make menetion of the Lens of Truth explicitly. They just say one needs "eyes that can see the truth". Apparentely anyone can train themselves to see the truth, but it's a very rigorous technique to learn.

    "Now usually, you have to train your mind's eye most strenuously to actually see the truth..." - Shikashi, Old Man (OoT)

    This could simply be a technique required by all Gerudo to learn, a rite of passage so to speak perhaps?

    You completely left out menetion of Demise's Hate Curse in relation to Ganondorf, and that's understandable with this type of theory. Yet it seems all humans in the land are culturally linked by the ancient civilization from Hylia's era, in which the Sheikah had a large role as religious followers of Hylia. It isn't completely impossible that the Sheikah and Gerudo are linked, Hylians and Gerudo in general would be linked anyway, afterall.
     
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  10. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    That's true. The directions may be referring to the Lens specifically, or it may be referring to a particular technique. The way Shikashi, the Old Man of Kakariko village, explains the "mind's eye" is kinda vague. He could be referring to a specific technique or he could just be referring to the experience and wisdom one tends to accumulate throughout their lives. Especially intellectuals who train themselves to be especially perceptive.

    It still leaves a few avenues for speculation open.
     
  11. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    Since the Hate Curse was left out in your theory, I'll go ahead and share my thoughts on it in relation to Ganondorf.

    Koume and Kotake are said to be Ganondorf's suggorate mothers, in other words, substitute mothers. For a long while I considered a deeper connection between them. At one point I even thought about writing a theory claiming that perhaps Koume and Kotake, merged as Twinrova, did in fact give birth to Ganondorf. That theory is rather far-fetched which is why I never devoted much time towards it, beside early concept drafts. At the very least I did conclude that maybe Twinrova did magically influence Ganondorf's birth. Maybe with the intent of birthing an incarnation of the Demon King, Demise. I did write a theory on this, I have it saved on a flashdrive amoung other theories and various things I wrote but never got around to posting back in 2015. If there is interest, maybe I'll finally share it.
     
  12. Castle

    Castle Ch!ld0fV!si0n

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    I'm going to choose to be a stubborn dick and ignore any mention of the stupid hate curse. theorize away but i'll have no part of that nonsense. not that this thread isn't a good place for it. If others are willing to speculate, have at it!
     
  13. Magic Bean Seller

    Magic Bean Seller The Apocalyptic Overlord Forum Volunteer

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    As far as we see by OOTs time impa is the only acknowledged shiekah but then again we don't actually know if a shiekah is by vocation or by birth.
    We also know that no one else in hyrule has red hair bar those with gerudo Heritage.
    We've also seen a pretty big indication that magic can be gifted to individuals who've been found worthy or they can be born with it.

    In regards to this whole parentage theory, there's nothing to actually say that Ganondorf belongs to any race but Gerudo. Or more importantly to his surrogate parents. they i've no doubt know a hell of a lot of magic and both are over 400 years old so chances are good they know how to become pregnant magically. Or hell even to summon a demon just for that purpose. Theres nothing in the series that gives any clue to Ganondorf being anything but Gerudo. And in all honesty Gerudo's seem to have a dominant gene pool in those they breed with (so Talon must have some bloody mighty genes if malons part gerudo).

    Basically what all i tried to say above is Ganondorf is an IVF baby created by demon junk and twinrova genes.

    Also chopping out parts of the series so as to make a theory work is pretty bad theorizing on par with that legend of Vita.
     
  14. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    I agree that it was needless retcon to explain Ganondorf's mutiple resurrections, his immunity to seals, and in FSA, he was even reincarnated. We already knew that Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link were eternally connected by just being the ideal hosts for the Triforces pieces alone.

    The Hate Curse is established though, it can't be took back now. Like it, or hate it, we have to deal with it. Unless you're a headcanon theorist.
     
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  15. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    Zelda is real.