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Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - Mafia Game Thread

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Kybyrian

Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Location
Amherst, MA
Gender
Didn't I already answer this one?
Dracomajora said:
You can't expect anyone to agree with you or take you seriously if you don't even list your suspicions or reasons for voting someone. You say you're almost positive that Axle is Mafia, yet you don't even explain why or show your reasons. Do you know how that sounds to me? "I know Axle is scum. My reasons? I have them but I don't feel like listing them." You have shown almost no evidence, yet you are positive Axle is scum. How?

Iie iie, it's not that. I won't show a lot of the little things that put Axle out ahead of you, but they're there. Mostly the same little things that anyone else had ragged on with Axle for the whole game. They're there, I just don't feel like composing them because they are indeed little. As in just enough to put him ahead. My major reasons are there though.
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
Vote: Darknut_Hunter

This is not the time to end the day, and yes, one part of the reason why is the vote count against me. Right now, voting to shorten the day is a vote to end discussion and rush my lynch. That's suspicious. I am one of the most experienced players right now, and lynching me prematurely is a poor move no matter how you slice it. I don't think Ky is scum (though he's making poor judgments), but Darknut's just been acting weird in general.

Acting weird by stating a shorter day for the same reason that Durion has said apparently.

If you guys want to end the day, then maybe vote? Start a bandwagon and hammer to get a majority lynch if you want things to move so bad. Commit to something. Noncommittal posts are scummy.

So you decided that this is what you'd do? Start a bandwagon on me and hammer to get the majority lynch on me. While I have to say your charisma has masked the you true intent quite well, it's clear to me, and I'm sure to others too, that this is your tactic. If you want to get a majority lynch on me, go ahead, but it'll do no more than set the town farther back. That I can assure you. And if that happens, I'm pretty sure heads will roll after, and if they do, it'll probably be yours to start.


Yeah, I'll throw my vote in there as well. We've seen a couple of players who want to shorten the day, and Darknut_Hunter seems to be the one leading that whole "movemont".

I think I've explained my opinions well enough in previous posts.

Vote: Darknut_Hunter

This is what you said a few hours ago. Not too scummy of a post unless we take a look at all of your previous posts. Let's throw a few of those up there shall we? The previous one, posted on the 15th is good place to start.

I would feel that the Mafia has an even greater advantage than they would have had if a less experienced townie should get lynched. And that wouldn't be so good, would it. Because right now Axle has 3 votes more than any other player in this game, that's quite a bit more than everyone else. Then of course, if he turns out to be a mafioso, that would be grand!
For the time being Axle clearly has the most votes. To me it seems almost as if some of those who want to shorten the day want Axle dead. I'd like to keep the day's length as it is and maybe lynch Axle later in the game (unless he is proven innocent somehow before that). That way we can get some help from him before he dies, if he's a townie. However, we mustn't forget to lynch him towards the end, because if he is in fact a mafioso he is a great threat to us.
There's a lot going on right now in the game. I really don't feel that I can trust Axle (who can?), since he's such an experienced player and all. I think we should do as he says though, let him live for now, and lynch him later (unless we learn something about his role). That seems safest for the town.

Oh, and I think Kybyrian made some interesting statements in his last post. Although, I don't know if I should believe in them...
At the moment we seem to have a nice activity going on in the game. I hope it continues like this. :)

Anyway, my opinion on the RVS is a little split actually. Sure, no matter who is lynched in the end (town or scum), we can discuss about it later. But what can we learn from it when all of the casted votes were totally random? Those who voted for the (most likely) lynched townie are as likely to be other townies as scum, simply because the votes were random. Though if we would hit a scum, of course, that would be marvelous.
Yes, we've started! Nice! Good luck to ye all! :D

So now that I've gone through and read all your previous posts (I encourage all other players to look for themselves) I can see that your a player that hasn't really decided much. You're on the fence about an Axle lynch and don't know where to go. Now here's my counter: where does any of this show evidence that points to me being scum in your eyes. From all your previous posts I can see that you haven't targeted me at any degree. Then all of a sudden, you come in right after Axle and say that you vote me and that you've stated your reasoning in previous comments. In other words, you're bandwaggoning. You're hoping nobody would actually go to reference your older posts.

What if DH isnt calling them out? What if hes just playing a part of a plan? He could be deflecting onto others to hide that he is one of them. He did get awfully defensive there for a min, especially because of the FoS... Possibly because he slipped up? He could be using TMS and Durion as shields to make himself look like a townie and thats why he included them in the 3 mentioned... or they could be involved in the plan too. Hmmmm... where to go from here.

Part of a plan? If it was part of a plan, I'd probably get more defense coming my way. Considering that I was just attacked with no actual credible reasoning shows that I'm not plotting anything. I included the other two in my previous comment merely as a way to show that I'm not the only one who could be considered scum for suggesting a day to be shorter. As for being defensive about FoSing, I stated the way I am about it. It wasn't a defense, but a simple note on how I take the credibility of an FoS. Nothing more or less. Me being defensive is what you read into it.

So here it is. I have just laid out the fact that Axle basically said, "If you guys want to move on to the next day, go and crush someone to move ahead," while also voting for me. Bandwaggoning and hammering without real cause is a mafia tactic that townies fall for easily. All a mafia member has to do is chum the water a bit with slightly suspicious post and then it's fair game and the townies take the bait. So what I'm saying is that Axle is mafia.

Vote: Axle The Beast

I have also shown that Pendio has voted me without presenting credible information as to why I am scum. In fact, he even referenced his past posts when there is no information about me being scum in those either. So all in all, he's joined Axle, either because he's gullible, or he's also Mafia. Either way, it doesn't look good for him.

So here's how things will go
1) I will be lynched in a vote because everyone sees reason in Axle's post or is a Mafia member. If that happens then most people will realize Axle is a mafia member, but it'll be too late and he'll get 2 of us.

2) Axle is lynched and is mafia. I'll probably be revenged killed by mafia because of that.

3) Axle is lynched and isn't mafia and just turned out to be a really suspect townie. I'll be NKed or lynched after that (the latter with just reasoning of course) and then we'll be out 2 townie plus any NKs

4) I'm not lynched and I end up NKed immediately after or later on.


Or my guess could be completely wrong. But I stand behind my vote for Axle now. It's not on a revenge bias either. It's simply because he seems to have not played his hand right.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
So you decided that this is what you'd do? Start a bandwagon on me and hammer to get the majority lynch on me. While I have to say your charisma has masked the you true intent quite well, it's clear to me, and I'm sure to others too, that this is your tactic. If you want to get a majority lynch on me, go ahead, but it'll do no more than set the town farther back. That I can assure you. And if that happens, I'm pretty sure heads will roll after, and if they do, it'll probably be yours to start.

Yes, he decided he'd take his own advice instead of campaigning for a shorter day. I don't understand why you find it suspicious that he does exactly what he said he'd do. He targeted you because he perceives that your attempts to shorten the day, attempts that I have already mentioned being suspicious by my reasoning, are in fact attempts to expedite his lynch by pressuring the town into voting more hastily. That seems like a very logical reason to vote for somebody rather than nefarious illogic in an attempt to get a townie lynched.

So now that I've gone through and read all your previous posts (I encourage all other players to look for themselves) I can see that your a player that hasn't really decided much. You're on the fence about an Axle lynch and don't know where to go. Now here's my counter: where does any of this show evidence that points to me being scum in your eyes. From all your previous posts I can see that you haven't targeted me at any degree. Then all of a sudden, you come in right after Axle and say that you vote me and that you've stated your reasoning in previous comments. In other words, you're bandwaggoning. You're hoping nobody would actually go to reference your older posts.

It certainly doesn't seem like he's on the fence about an Axle lynch to me - it looks like he has decided that it is best to keep Axle alive now and kill him later. His posts show a natural progression of logic from uncertainty to tactic. As for the bolded portion of the quote, he says quite clearly:

To me it seems almost as if some of those who want to shorten the day want Axle dead.

You even quoted that. It seems quite clear what leads him to think that you are dangerous.

Part of a plan? If it was part of a plan, I'd probably get more defense coming my way. Considering that I was just attacked with no actual credible reasoning shows that I'm not plotting anything. I included the other two in my previous comment merely as a way to show that I'm not the only one who could be considered scum for suggesting a day to be shorter. As for being defensive about FoSing, I stated the way I am about it. It wasn't a defense, but a simple note on how I take the credibility of an FoS. Nothing more or less. Me being defensive is what you read into it.

So here it is. I have just laid out the fact that Axle basically said, "If you guys want to move on to the next day, go and crush someone to move ahead," while also voting for me. Bandwaggoning and hammering without real cause is a mafia tactic that townies fall for easily. All a mafia member has to do is chum the water a bit with slightly suspicious post and then it's fair game and the townies take the bait. So what I'm saying is that Axle is mafia.

Vote: Axle The Beast

I have also shown that Pendio has voted me without presenting credible information as to why I am scum. In fact, he even referenced his past posts when there is no information about me being scum in those either. So all in all, he's joined Axle, either because he's gullible, or he's also Mafia. Either way, it doesn't look good for him.

Again, there was reasoning in both of those posts. I don't vouch for the soundness of that reasoning, but there IS honest, legitimate reasoning - I don't detect any nefarious purposes there. Axle voted for you because he perceived an effort on your part to expedite his lynch. Pendio voted for you because he has become convinced that lynching Axle now is a dangerous move, and also perceives an effort on your part to expedite Axle's lynch, and thus considers your actions dangerous. Neither of them insinuated that you are scum, simply that your actions are dangerous. There is a logical reason behind their votes - whether the logic is sound is free to interpretation, but illogic should be met with explanation rather than hostility.

Overall I think you are overreacting to a modicum of pressure being placed on you - which is a fairly scummy behavior. Even if you aren't mafia - and in fact I remain unconvinced that you are scum - the sort of trigger-happiness that you've shown, going after anyone who places you under suspicion, is not constructive and will only hurt the town in the end. Couple this with my previously expressed suspicions...

Vote: Darknut_Hunter

I am not voting for you because I necessarily think you are scum. I am not voting for you because I think Axle and Pendio are necessarily innocent (though I do think their votes for you are innocuous). I am voting for you because I find your playstyle counterproductive and dangerous for the town, whether you are scum or not, and that your death would ultimately be a good thing for the town.
 

Kybyrian

Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Location
Amherst, MA
Gender
Didn't I already answer this one?
GaroXicon said:
I am voting for you because I find your playstyle counterproductive and dangerous for the town, whether you are scum or not, and that your death would ultimately be a good thing for the town.

Have always been iffy on this. Never sure if it's bad enough to warrant this type of move, but I haven't seen much counterproductive play from DH. I don't believe he's done anything serious to really give the impression he's capable of denting the game simply with his playstyle. I'd say that, even on just the first day (because the odds can have a way of slipping right out from under you), it's more of an asset to keep him alive at this point than kill him off already. Not to mention I feel like this is just a bandwagon stigma rather than actually anything worth an amount of merit.

Plus, I remember you saying something earlier about leaning against towards my side with Axle being scum. I'd say, taking into account the minimal threat (which I have already explained), it would be better to go with the suspected target rather than this route.

This is what I've been thinking out and suggest:

1. Axle gets lynched today (like I said, pretty damn sure he's scum)
2. Cop would preferably hit up on Draco during the night phase (Provided Axle is scum, and I feel like, considering he is one of the more active players, it would be detrimental to us if he does turn out to flip town. This is why I believe it would be better to get the information from a cop investigation instead of heading straight towards him. Plus, in the event of my death tonight (if something so unfortunate were to happen =( ), it would be best to know what's going on in case of an attempt at townie incrimination (i.e. nightkilling me to frame Draco when he actually isn't mafia))
3. Vig would preferably hit an inactive - townie or not, they truly can be more detrimental to the game. Even more so than one who plays badly - as DH is being accused of. There's simply no way to ever tell, and it's easy for mafia to pick them off at the end. I'd suggest Jedizora for this due to the fact he's my most heavily suspected one among the group, so I feel like we have a very good chance of hitting mafia there and getting rid of a bad problem altogether.
4. Doc can do whatever he wants... I'd suggest protecting me cause I really don't want to die, but in the event of a strongman... well we don't know whether or not that strongman would be capable of not only breaking through protection - but also killing the protector. That would be bad. I feel like I have less a chance of dying after bringing up the Draco incrimination thing, too, just in case that were to happen, in which event I think we know who you'd really want to go after - TheMasterSword.

So, looking ahead, yeah. Right on.
 
Sorry I haven't been keeping up. After a few tough weeks, I finally had times to read this Mafia thread. And holy wall of text Batman! Some of you guys-Draco, Axle, Ky, Garo, and DH-made my head explode reading your walls of text. Regarding the length of the day, I've always found more hours to be ideal for a Mafia game. No one knows where to begin and the RVS stage can be used to glean some very useful information.

I agree with this statement:

Durion said:
If you read what I posted before, I said the best thing you can really do with the random voting stage is to get someone to the point where only a few more votes will kill them off. It puts him in the position to defend himself so we can actually get some information before the end of the day. I'm not attempting to get him lynched here. My actions may lead to him being lynched if he puts forward a shoddy argument in his defense, but I highly doubt that will happen.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
Have always been iffy on this. Never sure if it's bad enough to warrant this type of move, but I haven't seen much counterproductive play from DH. I don't believe he's done anything serious to really give the impression he's capable of denting the game simply with his playstyle. I'd say that, even on just the first day (because the odds can have a way of slipping right out from under you), it's more of an asset to keep him alive at this point than kill him off already. Not to mention I feel like this is just a bandwagon stigma rather than actually anything worth an amount of merit.

Plus, I remember you saying something earlier about leaning against towards my side with Axle being scum. I'd say, taking into account the minimal threat (which I have already explained), it would be better to go with the suspected target rather than this route.

Well, you are right in that I had been leaning toward siding with you regarding your theory about Axle and Draco, especially since the latter is acting very skittish. That said, one of Axle's most recent posts in which he cited similar occurrences from past games has swayed me back to the center - I'm now considerably less confident that he is scum, and am as of writing more receptive to keeping him alive at this juncture, if only because I remain unconvinced of his alignment but find the pros of leaving him alive if he is a townie greater than the potential cons of leaving him alive if he is a mafia. I also think that his true colors will be revealed with the results of whatever night actions take place tomorrow, as well as the role of whoever gets lynched today (assuming somebody does, and assuming that he is not the one lynched) - I think it will be far easier to determine if Axle is scum or not with a little bit more information.

That said, I voted for Darknut because erratic finger pointing at anyone who happens to point their finger in his direction is counterproductive, as the vast majority of accusations made -PARTICULARLY during Day 1, when we have little tactical analysis to discuss - are going to be townie on townie. Concentrated pressure is the best way to get results, and slinging accusations everywhere just because a few people happen to suspect you is counter to that goal.

Know this though: my vote is not final. I only vote when I feel confident that the player's death will aid the town in some way, but it does not mean that I think that is the ONLY course of action we should take. If, during continued discussion, Axle's further defense (or lack thereof) rings more suspicious, I will gladly switch my vote. I am not married to the idea of lynching Darknut, though from my interpretation of events right now it's the best course of action until we have the results of night actions to shed more light on Axle's alignment, since right now I find it more likely that it's a case of Axle's typical playstyle and Draco's inexplicable skittishness rather than a scum tell.

This is what I've been thinking out and suggest:

1. Axle gets lynched today (like I said, pretty damn sure he's scum)
2. Cop would preferably hit up on Draco during the night phase (Provided Axle is scum, and I feel like, considering he is one of the more active players, it would be detrimental to us if he does turn out to flip town. This is why I believe it would be better to get the information from a cop investigation instead of heading straight towards him. Plus, in the event of my death tonight (if something so unfortunate were to happen =( ), it would be best to know what's going on in case of an attempt at townie incrimination (i.e. nightkilling me to frame Draco when he actually isn't mafia))
3. Vig would preferably hit an inactive - townie or not, they truly can be more detrimental to the game. Even more so than one who plays badly - as DH is being accused of. There's simply no way to ever tell, and it's easy for mafia to pick them off at the end. I'd suggest Jedizora for this due to the fact he's my most heavily suspected one among the group, so I feel like we have a very good chance of hitting mafia there and getting rid of a bad problem altogether.
4. Doc can do whatever he wants... I'd suggest protecting me cause I really don't want to die, but in the event of a strongman... well we don't know whether or not that strongman would be capable of not only breaking through protection - but also killing the protector. That would be bad. I feel like I have less a chance of dying after bringing up the Draco incrimination thing, too, just in case that were to happen, in which event I think we know who you'd really want to go after - TheMasterSword.

So, looking ahead, yeah. Right on.

The advantages of having Axle on the town's side far outweigh the potential losses of leaving a scum Axle alive for one extra day. We should strategically execute night actions to gather more information on Axle before making a determination. I would advocate the following course of action:

1. Draco or Darknut gets lynched today. We could lynch the former because your confidence in Axle's alignment is due in part to a perceived partnership between Draco and Axle brought on by Draco's quick jumping to Axle's defense despite randomly voting for him earlier; if you are confident in Axle's alignment, it stands to reason that Draco would be equally as sure to be scum as Axle; additionally, Draco's alignment would shed light on Axle's alignment given your reasoning for suspecting Axle - if Draco turns out to be mafia, then we can rest assured that Axle is almost certainly mafia as well. Conversely, if Draco turns out to be a townie who happened to be a bit too skittish and ended up looking suspicious, then we can be a bit more lax toward Axle. And of course, we could lynch the latter for my aforementioned reasoning.
2. Have a cop investigate Axle - self explanatory.
3. Vig (assuming there is one; they're not usually an assured role in games I've played) still hits an inactive. I'm not sure exactly why you particularly suspect Jedizora (maybe I missed that), but any inactive would do.
4. Doc still does whatever he wants.

Now there would be a few potential outcomes of tonight that I can foresee:
A - The Mafia hit you, and our lynch vote for tomorrow becomes exceedingly obvious.
B - The Mafia hit you, but the cop investigation for Axle comes back innocent. This would likely be a case of the mafia attempting to knock you off and frame Axle, perhaps hoping you might be the cop. In this case, our lynch vote for tomorrow becomes murkier but we have gained a powerful ally for the town.
C - The Mafia hit you but you are saved by the doctor, and no night kill happens and we can turn to the cop result.
D - The Mafia hit a random player - this is always a possibility regrettably, and doesn't really give us much to go on, which is why they do it. But we would still have the cop result to go on.
E - The Mafia get super lucky and knock off the cop, in which case we're out of luck.
F - The Mafia knock off an innocent Axle, just to screw with us and cast some doubt on you, though not much, as it wouldn't make sense for you to have killed Axle after publicly campaigning for his lynching.
G - The Mafia hit the doctor, making the cop fear for his life and thus be less likely to come forward and share the result, meaning that, once again, we're out of luck.

So just from these potential outcomes, we have clear courses of action from five of seven possibilities - I think we stand to gain a lot more by leaving Axle alive on the chance that he isn't scum - something I'm not convinced of given his playstyle's congruency with his prior playstyle - and thus gaining a powerful town ally than we do to gain by lynching him on the chance that he is scum and potentially losing an ally.

BUT AGAIN - this could all change.

So this has been a really long post, let me sum up my thoughts for my sake as much as everybody else's: While I do not trust Axle, I am also not convinced he is scum, and think that we stand to benefit a lot more by leaving him alive one day at least while we gather more information. As such, while my recommendation is that we kill Darknut due to jumpy finger pointing and general danger to the town (voting to shorten the day), I also see the benefit in killing Draco to shed more light on Axle's potential allegiance. This is all heavily subject to change, but as the game stands now, these are pretty much all of my thoughts in a massive brain dump post.
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
That said, I voted for Darknut because erratic finger pointing at anyone who happens to point their finger in his direction is counterproductive, as the vast majority of accusations made -PARTICULARLY during Day 1, when we have little tactical analysis to discuss - are going to be townie on townie. Concentrated pressure is the best way to get results, and slinging accusations everywhere just because a few people happen to suspect you is counter to that goal.

I understand that it seems counter productive but really I've done nothing more than defend myself. Yes, I've fired off the accusations in an erratic manner, but not without just cause. I believe I gave enough support that, in my opinion, supports the claim that Axle is scum, and Pendio could be possible scum as well. Yes, I quoted some things that I didn't read into carefully enough, but I think that rereading them, particularly this one

I would feel that the Mafia has an even greater advantage than they would have had if a less experienced townie should get lynched. And that wouldn't be so good, would it. Because right now Axle has 3 votes more than any other player in this game, that's quite a bit more than everyone else. Then of course, if he turns out to be a mafioso, that would be grand!

show some form of allegiance that is extremely suspicious.

In the end, what ever is voted is voted, but dead town is dead town, and that means the Mafia is 1 person closer to winning. So it wouldn't make sense to kill of townie, no matter how erratically he's been playing, because he could end up being beneficial at drawing out other mafia members later on.
 

Pen

The game is on!
GaroXicon's post regarding me and DH:

So now that I've gone through and read all your previous posts (I encourage all other players to look for themselves) I can see that your a player that hasn't really decided much. You're on the fence about an Axle lynch and don't know where to go. Now here's my counter: where does any of this show evidence that points to me being scum in your eyes. From all your previous posts I can see that you haven't targeted me at any degree. Then all of a sudden, you come in right after Axle and say that you vote me and that you've stated your reasoning in previous comments. In other words, you're bandwaggoning. You're hoping nobody would actually go to reference your older posts.

It certainly doesn't seem like he's on the fence about an Axle lynch to me - it looks like he has decided that it is best to keep Axle alive now and kill him later. His posts show a natural progression of logic from uncertainty to tactic. As for the bolded portion of the quote, he says quite clearly:

To me it seems almost as if some of those who want to shorten the day want Axle dead.

You even quoted that. It seems quite clear what leads him to think that you are dangerous.

Thank you GaroXicon. I was just about to explain this to DH, but seeing as you already did it so nicely for me, I decided to just quote it here.

Pendio voted for you because he has become convinced that lynching Axle now is a dangerous move, and also perceives an effort on your part to expedite Axle's lynch, and thus considers your actions dangerous.

This is also very true. Any townie should realize that. If Axle is in fact a townie, we could have great use of him.
 

Kybyrian

Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Location
Amherst, MA
Gender
Didn't I already answer this one?
I like you, Garo. Though I still don't agree with your course of action regarding the Axle/Darknut situation, you're a thinker and that's good. If we were to lynch someone besides Axle, these two are good:

GaroXicon said:
2. Have a cop investigate Axle - self explanatory.
3. Vig (assuming there is one; they're not usually an assured role in games I've played) still hits an inactive. I'm not sure exactly why you particularly suspect Jedizora (maybe I missed that), but any inactive would do.

And of course doc does whatever he wants anyway. I think I've always had a vig in every game I've played, too. Jedizora would be a great target for this.

ebwodp

I still want to mark up my main suspicions here...

Axle
Jedizora
TheMasterSword
Dracomajora
One of the other inactives (at least) such as Fig


I can say with relative confidence that 80% of these people at least are scum. I do not believe we benefit by contemplating the possibility of leaving Axle alive today, and I do not believe we can benefit by not killing Jedizora tonight, and I do not believe we can benefit by investigating someone other than Dracomajora or TheMasterSword.

If I were to die, do not forget these things. It's too often that someone has great hunches and then dies and all that ends up as nothing. With even more confidence, I can say that, after an NK of Jedizora, an investigation of Draco/TMS, and a lynch of Axle, we should be able to see just how much merit my suspicions have. Do not forget these things.

If my hunches are even near correct, it's likely I'll be a primary target for death tonight. And if I were tonight, surely someone would argue that the mafia could be framing the people I suspected. Watch that person.. The lynch, nightkill, and investigation should surely prove otherwise.
 
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Ronin

There you are! You monsters!
Forum Volunteer
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Location
Alrest
DH isn't scum, of that I can assure you

And how do I know that? because lol you're scum and not him!

So basically you're saying that Darknut_Hunter isn't a member of the Mafia, even though you have no evidence to present otherwise, and are trying to pinpoint suspicion back on Axle (among others) while utterly relying on a hunch?

Interesting...

All right, then... I'm going to call your bluff. And not because I believe you (trust isn't really an exceptional factor in this game), but because DH and I were Mafia cohorts in another game. I know how he plays from that end; typically he'd be trying to protect a fellow mafioso and rebuff the blame towards another player somehow. That doesn't appear to be his strategy in this game--he's being very independent from the looks of it [making his own calls and conjectures, for starters], and not defending anyone but himself, namely from Garo, when needed.

In my view, independence is a Townie trademark. Unlike with the Mafia, a group effort basically, the Town operates individually and has to come to their own conclusions. Darknut_Hunter and Kybyrian have both been pretty active to hunt down suspects, respectively; and the only time that they've shown to "collaborate" is Kyby's claim above (although he could be acting in certainty). Whatever the case, thus far they've pretty much been their own players. At this point in the game, I can only think to call it legit scumhunting.

As far as Axle goes, well, let's just say he's been playing it safe this round. He's honestly not made any overt slip-ups...except possibly this one:

Voted for Darknut, called him out on the day-shortening request, and then encouraged us to ensure a lynch via bandwagoning...no doubt hoping our victim would be DH.

Subtle, very subtle... But that's not all Axle did:

Followed that up with an impromptu post which says we should stop overanalyzing him, and provided several examples of lynches from other games; best I can figure it's meant to take our attention off Axle and place it on DH.

Now...that's a whopper of data to take in, but I don't understand his claim of the second post being a "peace offering". Why would he even feel the need to present a peace offering, emphasized by the fact that he targeted DH right before that? Furthermore, there were quite a bit of people jumping to Axle's defense as Kyby began his pressurizing soon afterwards. That begs the question of why they want him to live so bad. Are they blindly following his lead simply because he's an experienced player, or because they [some if not all] are Mafia as well?

Mr. the Beast...you have a bit of explaining to do.
 

Kirino

Tatakae
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
especially since the latter is acting very skittish.
Draco's inexplicable skittishness
if Draco turns out to be a townie who happened to be a bit too skittish

Can you please explain exactly how i'm acting "skittish"? I've already defended myself and explained my actions multiple times.

Draco's quick jumping to Axle's defense despite randomly voting for him earlier

See, this is where I get lost. What does my random vote have to do with anything? It was completely random, at a time where my only goal was to get the game going. I fail to see the connections everyone's making between my random vote and my defense, both of which I have already explained.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
Can you please explain exactly how i'm acting "skittish"? I've already defended myself and explained my actions multiple times.

See, this is where I get lost. What does my random vote have to do with anything? It was completely random, at a time where my only goal was to get the game going. I fail to see the connections everyone's making between my random vote and my defense, both of which I have already explained.

You changed your random vote quite frequently early on, which is very erratic and skittish. You voted for Axle at one point as well, but when pressure is applied to him you jump to defend him. If you were willing to random vote him to get the game going, why does the application of a bit of pressure from Kybyrian change things all of a sudden? The only conclusion that I can come to - and Kybyrian has arrived at the same conclusion - is that you two are partners, be it scum partners or pro-town masons, and the random vote was a diversion that you could point to later to discount any perceived connection you two had. You were quick to defend Axle and then quick to defend yourself and vote for Kybyrian once he voiced his suspicions regarding your alignment.

That's fairly skittish, and in my eyes more suspicious than Axle so far this game - but I do agree that there is likely a connection between you two.

Keep in mind I'm not convinced either way, but I definitely think you two should be watched and investigated to the best of our ability during the night, as I mentioned in my last post.
 

Kirino

Tatakae
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
You changed your random vote quite frequently early on, which is very erratic and skittish. You voted for Axle at one point as well, but when pressure is applied to him you jump to defend him. If you were willing to random vote him to get the game going, why does the application of a bit of pressure from Kybyrian change things all of a sudden? The only conclusion that I can come to - and Kybyrian has arrived at the same conclusion - is that you two are partners, be it scum partners or pro-town masons, and the random vote was a diversion that you could point to later to discount any perceived connection you two had. You were quick to defend Axle and then quick to defend yourself and vote for Kybyrian once he voiced his suspicions regarding your alignment.

I'll answer this with some quotes of my own.


What? I don't understand what you're saying. Let's start with the method you think i'm using. Why are you trying to find an ulterior motive in a random vote? How would a random vote dispel suspicion at all? He was never being suspected anyways. And why does trying to stop a terrible and baseless lynch mean i'm working together with the person i'm trying to not get lynched? But let me explain my actions.

Since the game was really slow, an I feared it would turn into Doctor Who Mafia, I tried from the very beginning to speed this game up, mostly by random voting. I didn't vote for Axle as part of an elaborate scheme to dispel suspicion from my supposed "Mafia partner". I tried to pick a person who hadn't posted yet, and when I was looking at the list of players, Axle stood out because of his Mafia reputation and expertise, so I decided to pick him. I came on here, saw the game was kinda slow, and quickly made a post. That's really all that happened. Why would I pick a mafia member at the beginning and vote for them as part of a plan I would use later on? How would I know what would happen, why would I choose that member, and how would I think of such a thing at the very beginning, when nothing was going on, and my only goal was to get the game going? The answer to all of these is that I didn't. Your claims are absurd.

Also, there's nothing inherently suspicious about defending someone. I know tha some people were eager to vote for just about anyone for almost no reason to get the game going, but an experienced player is way too high of a risk. Not to mention the accusations against him were practically nonexistint. To lynch an experienced player with no evidence just for some discussion? That's crazy. I just wanted to prevent what I felt was a pointless, baseless, and dangerous lynch that would most likely end up being detrimental to the town. Also, at the time, Durion gave no evidence as to why he voted for Axle, and neither did you or zack. Which is why I say the accusations were nonexistent. I assumed it was because they wanted to lynch someone quickly because of the posts back in the thread, and I was just saying why that was a bad idea.

By the way, if you think I misinterpreted your post, feel free to explain, as I don't think I fully understood it.



My random vote wasn't me trying to take suspicion off myself. It was completely seperate from my conversation with you. It was just another random vote. I was making tons of random votes to get the game going. And the incident was a complete coincidence, which is why i'm so confused and taken aback by this whole situation. I didn't vote for Kybyrian to frame him either. It was because of his awful "evidence", if you can even call it that, and his random bandwagoning. He didn't even explain his reasoning at the time. It was a very suspicious post, and that's why I voted for it.

Also, if anyone's wondering why I wanted to get this game going so badly, it was because of how badly I wanted this to be a good game. I love mafia. I sometimes join forums just to participate. I haven't played a Mafia game in a long time, so I was very exited. And after seeing how bad Doctor Who mafia was, and how inactive thiis game was, I was worried that it would stay that way. Honestly, this whole thing was me just trying to get some activity in this game, and if you would rather believe Kybyrian's rediculous theory, then fine.



If you're talking about my random vote on Axle, then I get what you're saying, and it makes sense. If it was a serious vote, that would be a perfectly logical conclusion to make, but nobody would think that a person wasn't my ally just because I random voted them once in the beginning of the game, and I would most certainly not expect any smart player to come to that conclusion. By that logic, everyone I random voted for could be mafia, but that is highly unlikely. The only thing that makes Axle more likely than anyone else I random voted for is that I defended him, but that was for a completely seperate and logical reason that I already explained multiple times.

To sum up, I didn't know that Kybyrian was applying pressure. I thought he was being serious, since at the time, he was voting to Axle for completely nonsensical reasons. He barely even stated any reasons, and the reasons he did state were just plain stupid.

and the random vote was a diversion that you could point to later to discount any perceived connection you two had.
That makes no sense. There's no way I would go back and say "I random voted for Axle before, and if he were my Mafia partner I wouldn't have random voted him." It was a random vote. There is absolutely no harm in random voting Mafia partners, so how would I expect people to believe that a Mafia member wouldn't vote for his comrade? I'm having a very difficult time putting this into words, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

If it was a serious vote, that would make sense. However, it was a random vote. A random vote couldn't discount anything, because a random vote is simply a vote made in the beginning of the game to get discussion started, and is based on no evidence. Therefore, it would make no sense for anyone to look at my random vote and say "Since Draco suspected Axle, they aren't partners" because I never did suspect him. The vote was completely random. I would never expect anyone to come to this conclusion, and i'm suprised that people think I was trying to get people to come to that conclusion out of a random vote.

And I suggest you read the entire thing. I think i've defended myself and explained my actions well enough. Investigate me at night if you want. In fact, I would like that to happens, as it would prove my innocence.
 

Raindrop14

Soldier for Christ!
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Location
E-Arth
Current vote tally:

5 - Axle the Beast (PokaLink, Violet, Durion, Kybyrian, Darknut_Hunter)
3 - Darknut_Hunter (Axle the Beast, Pendio, GaroXicon)
1 – Violet (GirlWithAFairy)
1 - Durion (Jedizora)
1 - Kybyrian (Dracomajora)
1 – Day ending on November 21st (TheMasterSword)
1 – Dracomajora (MonkeyFightSquad)

11 votes needed for a majoraty lynch. Day ends on 11/24/2012 at 11:00PM ET.

Also, GirlWithAFairy will be inactive from the 20th to the 27th. Carry on. :)
 
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