Few Questions About First 6 Zeldas

[thawk]

In ALTTP-GBA, why did they give Link young Link's voice from OoT when the Link in alttp is older?

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Also, since zelda 1, 2, alttp, awakening, OoT, and Majora's Mask are in the same storyline, why is it that Link was abandoned in the lost woods (OoT) when he had family?

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Also, from this quote: "Shigeru Miyamoto, after Ocarina of Time was released was asked "Where do all the Zelda games fall into place when arranged chronologically by their stories?" and gave an answer suggesting that he saw Link to the Past as taking place after the original games:

Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time."

How could alttp still fit there when at the beginning of alttp, Link and Zelda met for the 'first time' yet again?

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If Link returned the master sword in OoT to the pedestal in the castle, why is it in the lost woods in alttp?

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If there really is a timeline, then why would every generation have ppl with the exact same names and similar likenesses (Link, Zelda, Impa, Ganon, etc.)

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And even if there is a timeline, how could the previous generations not have told the current generations of 'the legend' considering in most of the new zelda games, link and zelda are almost always meeting for the first time? (It's obvious zelda may have been told because she's always contacting Link, but how could Link not have known anything?).

 

[Satsy]

MC Link, LttP Link and OoT Child Link all have the same voice. Same goes for WW Link, PH Link and ST Link. They have the same voices because it's easier to re-use sound-bytes than to keep recording the same tracks over and over and paying out more to voice actors. There's nothing special about it, I'm afraid.

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The OoT Link is the same as MM Link, but not the same as LoZ/AoL or aLttP Link. The reason he's abandoned in the woods is also explained in-game. His mother left him in the care of the Great Deku tree, fleeing battle (IIRC), before dying in the forest. So he had family, then his mother died and now he doesn't.

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Stopping answering all the points here, I'll bring up 2 things you haven't taken into consideration:

Not all the Links are the same person. Link and Zelda meet 'for the first time' quite a bit.

Ocarina of Time is, was stated, and is indicated to be by the unfolding events, the prequel to LttP. Whether or not that's still the case remains to be seen, only because LttP's placement is up in the air. OoT is still one of the early tales, the only game before it now being Skyward Sword.

 

[thawk]

But they could have used Older Link's voice for the gba version because in alttp, he is grown. But instead they used young link's voice

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But I saw in the interview of the wiki of what the makers said about those first games being in-line with each other and what they say is always changing so why is it not safe to say that there is no timeline and that it's just a marketing tool to keep ppl interested (much like why capcom doesn't want to give an answer as to the gender of poison because they said that they like to keep the interest alive and keep the forums talking) because they screwed up and are now just doing what Final fantasy does (new story per ascending number)?

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Yeah I know that but I assumed that the different Links, etc started right when Capcom came in and did OoX and before then, they were all the same ppl. I didn't remember some inconsistencies with the earlier titles until a few days ago. I always thought OoT/MM was with the first set of games because of the Sages. And I assumed that the towns in Zelda II were dedicated to the Sages in OoT after they had died or ascended to honor them.


Another question: if there are different timelines, wouldn't the Gods still be one in the same considering they make everything? And they know all and are all and if you go into the past or future, the Gods will know because they wouldn't be affected by time travel. So why is it that Nayru, and the other two are so different in OoX than in any other Zelda game (why are they not Gods here)?

 

[Crash]

But they could have used Older Link's voice for the gba version because in alttp, he is grown. But instead they used young link's voice

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But I saw in the interview of the wiki of what the makers said about those first games being in-line with each other and what they say is always changing so why is it not safe to say that there is no timeline and that it's just a marketing tool to keep ppl interested (much like why capcom doesn't want to give an answer as to the gender of poison because they said that they like to keep the interest alive and keep the forums talking) because they screwed up and are now just doing what Final fantasy does (new story per ascending number)?

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Yeah I know that but I assumed that the different Links, etc started right when Capcom came in and did OoX and before then, they were all the same ppl. I didn't remember some inconsistencies with the earlier titles until a few days ago. I always thought OoT/MM was with the first set of games because of the Sages. And I assumed that the towns in Zelda II were dedicated to the Sages in OoT after they had died or ascended to honor them.


Another question: if there are different timelines, wouldn't the Gods still be one in the same considering they make everything? And they know all and are all and if you go into the past or future, the Gods will know because they wouldn't be affected by time travel. So why is it that Nayru, and the other two are so different in OoX than in any other Zelda game (why are they not Gods here)?

There are Din/Nayru/Farore the oracles and then there are Din/Nayru/Farore the goddesses. They are two entities that share similar qualities. In A Link to the Past, we're never told what Link's age is actually, but many still refer to him as a boy so he's not particularly old so giving him the younger voice seemed more logical. The different Links has been a recurring before the Oracle games came out. OoT made it obviously known especially when it talks about the civil war ending very recently, while ALttP makes it known that the war ended a long time ago.

 

[thawk]

About Din/Nayru/Farore and coincidence naming is a bit redundant. Why on earth would every generation of ppl have the same name?
Maybe so about the age thing but he most definitely was not a child according to the story pics in the manual. He looks waaay older than child Link in OoT. And definitely looks more older than Zelda II's Link. I always took OoT to be before the first zelda and alttp being after zelda II. After he beats ganon and goes back to being a kid, years later, zelda I takes place and then zelda II (Link is 16 I think in Zelda II). Pig ganon in Zelda I was thought to have been a manifestation of his evil considering his human form was sealed up and somehow he got it to appear back in the world. But then in Zelda II, if your blood was spilled, ganon is ressurected/released from his magical prison. That's what I always thought. How long ago did 'the war' end exactly in both (i forgot)?

 

[Crash]

In OoT, when we start playing, Link is 10. So at the max, it's been 10 years since the war has ended. In ALttP it just says a long time ago I think. And unfortunately, placing of the AoL has been one of the more difficult in the timeline if I remember right a lot of people have trouble with it. And as far as people having the same name, it's rather easy. Every princess in the royal family is named Zelda, Ganondorf is the same throughout the entire series, and Link is Reincarnated whenever he's needed. While ALttP wasn't necessarily a child, he wasn't necessarily a man either. The age he probably was in ALttP would probably be around 12-14. Link, at his oldest, is 17 with OoT, and in TP, if I remember right, he was 16. You can't have Ganon without Ganondorf, they are one and the same so you can't separate the pig from the man.

 

[A Link In Time]

Nintendo claims there is a timeline but that is part of the legend. The GBA remake of ALTTP included Young Link's voice from OOT after the success of the later game. The first six Zeldas are all classics!

 

[thawk]

^Yeah they are lol. Great classics.

@Crash:

In OoT, when we start playing, Link is 10. So at the max, it's been 10 years since the war has ended. In ALttP it just says a long time ago I think. And unfortunately, placing of the AoL has been one of the more difficult in the timeline if I remember right a lot of people have trouble with it. And as far as people having the same name, it's rather easy. Every princess in the royal family is named Zelda, Ganondorf is the same throughout the entire series, and Link is Reincarnated whenever he's needed. While ALttP wasn't necessarily a child, he wasn't necessarily a man either. The age he probably was in ALttP would probably be around 12-14. Link, at his oldest, is 17 with OoT, and in TP, if I remember right, he was 16. You can't have Ganon without Ganondorf, they are one and the same so you can't separate the pig from the man.

He is 16 in Zelda II: http://www.kasuto.net/image/zelda2/manual4.jpg

The Link to the Past Manual doesn't show his age but he looks like this: http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/link-to-the-past/inst-us/z3manual-07-08.jpg
Definitely older than Zelda II's Link. In OoT if young Link is 10 (time travel in OoT is 7 years). So adult Link is really not adult in OoT. He is a Teen. Same as in alttp. So they just screwed up with the voices in the gba release.

I know ganon is one in the same. But he sends shadows of himself to get Link all the time (as demonstrated in the forest temple in OoT itself) so he very well could have sent an image of his beast form out in Zelda I. Matter of fact, the world he is sealed in (in the future of OoT) could very well be the Dark World from alttp. The wizard in zelda II couldn't spill your blood to release him so he found another way within a another wizard to free himself (although he is still not free in alttp since he is still in dark world).

But then, since Impa was young in OoT, OoT can't be linked to loz, zelda II, etc. because in the classics, impa was old

I doubt it is the same Ganon. As we read what Demise said in the leak of the new zelda, that could very well just mean that every generation after him would start the same troubles in his bloodline. What he says doesn't nessessarily mean he ressurects himself every generation. If he could bring himself back, then he would have immediately done so when you beat him in Skyward Sword. It is impossible for Link to be reincarnated when trouble strikes because he always seems to have some kind of life before the adventure begins. just being reincarnated would mean that he would have no family or no ties to anything whatsoever when he is brought back. He also can't be brought back and be using different hands to fight with.

All in all, I think the timeline thing only exist in each particular universe in a zelda game and doesn't really carry on in another game. I think each game has it's own mythos (like final fantasy) because it's just too much stuff that doesn't make sense for them to all be connected . Waaay too much stuff. Direct sequel, generational sequal, or otherwise.

 

[Satsy]

About Din/Nayru/Farore and coincidence naming is a bit redundant. Why on earth would every generation of ppl have the same name?

Why is every hero coined as Link? Why are there 3 people called Din, Nayru and Farore in Hyrule Town in Minish cap, and why does this not shock anyone?

The main reason for a lot of the naming conventions, near as I can tell, is familiarity. You know where you stand with a kindly little red-head called Malon, a blonde called Zelda, and a guy in a full-body sock called Tingle. The conventions themselves aren't coincidence, so one could theorize that the repeating names for similar people is a divine prank of the Gods, perhaps. Bear in mind we put more thought into the little details than the developers seem to, it doesn't all mean something deep and significant.

Best not to assume it all does, just the parts that count.

 

[thawk]

Bear in mind we put more thought into the little details than the developers seem to, it doesn't all mean something deep and significant.

Best not to assume it all does, just the parts that count.

This is why I really think that there is no timeline. It's just developers fumbling around (much like the Street Fighter Franchise - nothing makes sense in that anymore). And the parts that count fumble just as well as the non-important things imo. If the story doesn't add up by now, I really don't think it ever will unfortunately. This is one of the franchises that I wish didn't do this. But hey, what can ya do. I use to think that the first 6 were directly connected, now all of that is falling apart in my brain lol.

 

[Satsy]

That's the thing -- a lot of it does add up. Everything from OoT, when Anouma got involved, has been pretty seamless, all aside from the Four Sword games. And even then that's just 'technically', since the FSS blend with the classic games fine, too, it's now just connecting those two puzzle pieces with what information we have available. Miyamato didn't put that much thought into it, but Anouma really is trying to piece everything together. Just not connecting every grain of sand.

 

[thawk]

I'm new to these forums but what all to you adds up from your pov? (If you have a thread already explaining, please link me to it)

 

[Satsy]

OoT splits into 2 timelines - the adult timeline, where adult Link defeated Ganon, sealed him away and then was sent back to the past to continue a normal life, and the child timeline, where Link continues on from after the events of the game. The child timeline leads directly into Majora's Mask, and then later TP takes place, with a new Link, tackling that same old Ganondorf. On the other side -- the adult timeline -- Ganon breaks out of the seal, but no Link, nor a bloodline connected to him, is there to put a stop to the fiend so the Goddesses drown Hyrule. From there, Wind Waker happens, and a new Link comes, with no connection to the previous Link. Once the events of Wind Waker happen, that immediately leads into Phantom Hourglass, and then later to a new Link in Spirit Tracks.

That's what works, that's what Anouma has explained in interviews (found under resources in that button under Minish Cap at the top of the page), and the games support that. That adds up.

The Four Sword series goes Minish Cap, Four Swords, and Four Sword Adventures. If you haven't played FSA, I recommend it highly -- the connections between that and LttP go beyond cameo into attempts to be as obvious as possible. A lot of the series' music, landscape, dungeon architecture, and even strong prophecy hints could not be pointed at clearer without giant neon signs. So the series could easily be placed before LttP, which is the prequel to LoZ/AoL. The most daunting task there is seeing quite how LttP sits with the first two games, though finding them another place to sit is a challenge in itself.

How all the timeline truly sits is still up for question though everyone has their theories, but it's not like there aren't pretty clear directions in the games. What with games referencing one another, cameos thrown about between, lineage and parallels to be drawn... There's a timeline, we're just missing a few lines and dots, really.

 

[thawk]

Why would Link going back into the present of that game (young Link) after defeating Ganon create 2 timelines? When traveling through time, the master sword along with the emblems just speeds time up by 7 years just like it speeds up the day to go into night (like fast-forwarding and rewinding). So when he pulls the sword from the pedestal, he stands there holding it up for 7 long years (if a person was watching him do it). He doesn't teleport to the future where he could potentially meet another him (like chrono cross or back to the future). And when the sages seal ganon, they seal his very existence throughout time so when Link speeds back into the present, ganon isn't there anymore and that is why Link sees Young Zelda at the castle again instead of her still being held captive by Ganon as a child.

 

[Satsy]

Because the way he traveled back at the end of the game differs from when he's going back throughout the game. He wasn't sent back by putting the Master Sword back in its pedestal, he was sent back by Zelda personally. The doorway through time, opened when Link pulled the Master Sword, was closed off again so Link could no longer return to that future. Thus Link could continue on, stopping Ganondorf at a much earlier time (which you then hear about later in twilight Princess), yet at the same time, even after Link has gone the people on the adult Timeline are still going, joyously celebrating the freedom they never thought they'd see again.

These are things very often touched upon in many split timeline topics in these forums.