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Expansive Overworld Or Denser Overworld?

Ariel

Think for yourself.
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Location
Sydney, Australia
Ok, there seems to be a bit of polarization when it comes to overworld size preferences. Some people love the large, expansive overworld of Twilight Princess, and others disliked it, instead wanting a more dense, smaller world with more to do in it. Should Skyward Sword go for the Twilight Princess option, or something along the lines of Ocarina Of Time? Please discuss your opinions with relevant arguments.
:):)
Personally, nothing felt more breath-taking in all of Zelda gaming, then stepping into the expansive Hyrule Field after completing the Forest Temple in Twilight Princess. After being confined to a relatively linear environment of Ordon, and Faron Woods, the vast openess that greeted my completion of the first dungeon was overwhelming. This, I believe, is why I would prefer a giant open world in contrast to a smaller, more dense world.
:):)
To me, Ocarina Of Time's main hub, Hyrule Field felt lacking. Hyrule Field was relatively small, exemplified by the fact that some guy in a bunny hood could literally run around what was essentially 50% of the known world. To me, there's something claustrophobic about that. You could explore the entire field, albeit slowly, on foot in about 30 minutes. This to me is underwhelming. But where Ocarina Of Time did get it right, in my opinion, is the richness of different smaller locations surrounding Hyrule Field. Ocarina of Time had an interconnected-ness unparalelled in any Zelda game, almost all the different locales were connected to each other by at least one secret passage, or unconventional path. For example, I at one point playing Ocarina of Time, needed to get to Zora's Domain from Death Mountain. Instead of taking the more conventional, linear path of out to Hyrule Field and then a hike up Zora River, I instead opted to enter Goron City, take the path to the Lost Woods, from there enter the small lake into Zora's River, and from there to Zora's Domain. The inventiveness, and variety of that path made the world seem much more alive than ever before. The small little out-crops of the different villages inhabited by their respective races no longer felt like branched microcosms stemming from Hyrule Field, but instead felt like a breathing, complex, innovatively connected world. This, I believe, is a major plus for a Zelda game. This allows a large area, to become easily traversed and explored despite its size. This is the option I would take, given a larger Zelda overworld, and larger Hyrule Field, not the small, enclosed Hyrule Field of Ocarina of Time.
:):)
Now, an issue often brought up about Twilight Princess and its Hyrule Field is that it often felt empty with nothing to do, like a sandbox with no sand. The sheer scale of the Field was immense, littered sparingly with an occasional cave and secret location reachable by vine and clawshot. Even Eiji Aonouma himself remarked that he regretfully made the world of Hyrule too big, over-drawing the world scale to a point of intimidation. However, to me, we need a bit (or a lot) of openess, especially with the use of Epona, to just run around carelessly in any direction and experiment with whatever we had; the Bow and Arrow, a Clawshot, or the Spinner even perhaps. There needs to be some room for Link to breathe, and a bit of distance between the different locations of the world. I remember I was in Eldin Province's Hyrule Field and I was amazed that I was able to shoot a Kargorok with my bow and arrow from way on the other side of the field. This leads into my next point, draw-distance. I think I can be quite safe in saying that a large draw distance is always preferred in a Zelda game, preferable propably even in almost the entire medium of games. Borrowing from an artcile I read about Twilight Princess, it's one of the only games where you can spot an enemy from a few miles away and still have the ability to shoot it between the eyes. To me, the ability to do that is pure satisfaction, definitely a plus for a precision-heavy Wii Zelda.
:):)
What I've concluded in my mind is that we need variety. We need a bustling, populated location that brims with life and activity in for the story and the atmosphere. We also need a large, expansive overworld for pure scope and experimentation. And with each, we need a degree of connectivity, Hyrule should not be made up of smaller themed worlds, there should be some overlap between them. I predict that console Zelda games are going to get bigger, and more ambitious in the future, so I hope they refine their ideas for the world of Hyrule and add some variety between games.


Have I convinced you? Or are you just itching to tell me off? What sort of world do you think Skyward Sword should employ?

Please discuss.
 
K

khalil

Guest
I think it should be somthing new, not focused on ocarina of time or twighlight princess, but yeah i think it should focus on a more defined world than an expansive one hands down. as we can see in twighlight princess there is this expansive world..... but nothing to do in it, i think there are actually inhabited parts of twighlight princess that i have never seen because there is nothing in those areas to do, nothing extra. and that is what most people missed in twighlight princess i know i did, plus i want navi back.
 
K

khalil

Guest
but i guess wanting navi back is focusing to much on the past.... not navi but a diffrent fairy
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Skyrule
You have to have a lot of gameplay, especially outside the main quest. That would mean a lot of characters to talk and interact with, a lot of hidden secrets, a lot of side quests, and a lot of mini games. With this added gameplay it makes the world feel not only alive, but exciting as well.

Twilight barely had any side quests, and their characters were minimal and generic. I believe that was the only reason it fell far from how great of a game it could have been.. Ocarina of Time was just a bit better in that sense but not by a ton, but it had an excuse because it was the first 3D zelda game and had its own expectations to create, plus its loaded with nostalgia.

I do feel the Wind Waker and Majora's Mask had done a wonderful job in the content areas. I would personally have a lot of gameplay elements outside the main quest in Skyward Sword. It would be great to have tons of content in a huge world we can explore, but its more realistic to except a game about 30% smaller in actual area than TP, and 40% more content thrown in than TP. Well that's what I hope for.
 

MOTLEYlink

...No your other left
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Location
Missouri, USA
What I would like to see is a best of both worlds scenerio, the expansiveness of Twilight Princess with the density we would find in Ocarina of Time and or Majora's Mask. I want room to explore, but not too much or it will get old and the grand sense of scale that you had with Twilight Princess. Along with added depth to the surroundings and a variety to the villages and their inhabitants like we saw in MM or OOT. (more so in MM.)
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Location
Snowpeak Ruins! (I Wish)
Keep in mind, something that EVERYONE forgets: This is the first Wii Zelda. TP was for GC but ported. This alone leads me to believe the overworld will be a little smaller than TP, but will keep us busy for years.
 

AwesomeTingle

Pure Awesomeness
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
As much as they can make and as much as WE can handle. TP and OoT combined would be interesting. An extrememly large, dense overworld, would be fantastic. But If i had to chose between the two? Dense overworld. So not as much time is wasted running around plain green fields of nothing.
 

Majora's Cat

How about that
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
NJ
My favorite overworld by far was that of Twilight Princess. I know lots of fans agree with me. TP could've had more villages and the hustle and bustle of townspeople, but did a better job at creating a fun overworld that's teemings with variety than Ocarina of Time did. One of my main complaints about OoT's overworld is that it's quite boring and also very small. Wind Waker takes this even further - 49 islands and one massive ocean can't make up for how lifeless the Great Sea really is. I've said this in a previous post and will say it again - WW is simply too large and doesn't have enough content. I felt that the overworld had potential until I realized that most islands were barely larger than Link himself.

Yes, I agree with you when you say that we need variety. Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker just didn't cut it. Twilight Princess went into greater detail with its environments but still lacked interactable towns and villages. We had Ordon, Kakariko and Castle Town... but that was basically it. I happen to love feel-good places such as those and TP just didn't deliver. OoT did an even worse job... and WW... I'm not even going to talk about that. The developers at Nintendo should know by now that Skyward Sword needs to have an interesting overworld. Honestly, of all the overworlds I've seen in Zelda games so far, the one that did the best at cramming secrets and such into a small world is Majora's Mask. There weren't many towns or villages, but Clock Town itself was so diverse and brimming with life that it made up for it. Termina wasn't so vast but had a multitude of different characters, making MM feel... shall I say... much more alive.

Nintendo has stated that Skyward Sword will have a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess. All I can hope for is that SS has more characters, villages and overall more diverse locations. It seems from what I've seen, that SS's overworld looks pretty big and diverse. Hopefully it will incorporate elements from other Zelda games into the overworld. What I mean by that is an ice world, a desert world, a water world and a fire world. This concept has been used in just about every Zelda game since A Link to the Past and I'm hoping that Skyward Sword can do a little more with the ice and desert environments. Twilight Princess certainly gave Gerudo Desert and Snowpeak a feeling of isolation... but I'd rather have more characters placed in areas like those. Maybe Gerudos can make a return? Or maybe some penguin people for the snow world?

Those are just my thoughts. I hope that SS has a great overworld - we don't want a repeat of WW, do we? :hmm:
 
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Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Location
Brasil
Excellent topic! :)

I much prefer a dense overworld over a vast one.
My favorite overworld of all the Zelda games is the one of LttP. It was extremelly dense and completely filled with secrets to find and things to do. If you consider that the equivalent to Epona in Lttp would be the pegasus boots (since you can quickly cross the world without stopping), you will notice that we had space to play around even in a dense overworld.

The main point, in my opinion, is that I think "vast" and "dense" shouldn't be opposites here. We can have a big overworld that is really filled with stuff to do. The problem with TP's Hyrule Field was not because it was big, it was because it was so empty. I think Aonuma and cia made a few development mistakes there. It's okay to have a big world, but if you can't fill it with content, it's better not. Link had Epona since the very beggining, I know it's cool, but she should be used to skip places we already visited more quickly, I guess her early presence actually worsened the final experience.
 

Shnappy

derp
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Location
Colorado
For me, Twilight Princess was quite an ideal overworld. It really seemed to scatter the different kinds of land very nicely. Unlike other some other games, not everything was connected to a central land. Different methods and paths were used to travel the whole overworld. While it was very expansive, I do feel that it was dense enough for me to enjoy the fields of plain grass and hills. This is because various secret areas with rupee chests and poe souls were scattered throughout.

I do expect Skyward Sword to offer us an overworld with the same expansive qualities, but I'd also like to see a good integration with Skyloft. Nintendo has revealed that Link will use the Skyward Sword to travel in between Skyloft and Hyrule throughout the story, and I think that it would be cool if that worked kind of like it did in LttP with the Light and Dark Worlds. Now, it might be kind of odd and unfitting if it's like an exact parallel, where everyone has an opposite in Skyloft, but if the size of the terrains are relatively the same between Skyloft and actions done in one world affect the other, I think that would be a great feature.

Even if Skyward Sword does take a denser approach to the overworld, I think that that could still work out well. Even though expansive is the preferred option in my opinion, some games pulled off dense very well, for example, Majora's Mask. Majora's Mask was easily the smallest overworld out of any Zelda game, but in each of the four sections of Termina there was a butt-load of things to do, and the general design of the overworld fit very well with the story. Also, the good thing about dense overworlds is that you don't have to do a few minutes of walking just to get to another place. I feel that OoT had this problem, especially near the beginning of the game when you couldn't play songs on the ocarina in order to teleport to various places. A dense overworld could provide tons of miniquests to do while also cutting down on unnecessary travel time.

While dense may seem like a good option, I feel the pros really outweigh the cons when it comes to an expansive overworld. When you pack a bunch of gameplay in to such a small space, then it makes for an uncomfortable feeling while playing through the game. You can put all of that gameplay in to an expansive overworld without that cramped and uncomfortable feeling while playing through the game. The only real con of having an expansive overworld is travel time, which can be easily solved by integrating a teleportation system such as the bridges in TP or the Ocarina in OoT. However, whether it be expansive or dense, I think the overworld will be great just as long as Nintendo doesn't overdo it and screw it up.
 

Link19x

Freak on a leash xp
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
actually, the overworld in oot was in my opinion, even more empty than the one in twilight princess. I think the ideal overworld was in a link to the past. there was much to do and much to discover. i really hope ss goes in that direction.........
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Go Big. BIG BIG BIG. Zelda is about adventure. Zelda is about having a huge and interesting and dangerous world to master. Big I tell you, BIG.
 

Tony

Stardust Crusaders
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Location
Seasons in the Abyss [Minnesota]
I want an overworld like the original LoZ (not in 8-bit in 3D), I want enemies everywhere and an expansive overworld with many hidden secrets that arn't easy to discover. I kind of want a mix between LoZ, OoT, and MM. After the lacking overworlds in the DS Zelda's I think we deserve something like this.
 
K

khalil

Guest
actually, the overworld in oot was in my opinion, even more empty than the one in twilight princess. I think the ideal overworld was in a link to the past. there was much to do and much to discover. i really hope ss goes in that direction.........
really? in oot there are holes all over the game (in the ground) that you can go to and find stuff. there are mask lenders that tell you to go sell masks there are places to go in kakarikos village graveyard, bigorons sword, great fairys that lend you new magical attacks including but not limited to (Naarus Love) so as you can see you missed plenty in oot if you are saying that oot is not dense in quality and there isn't 2 things extra not including magic armor because you need that in the story it isn't extra

in (TP) that i am sure you can mention

My favorite overworld by far was that of Twilight Princess. I know lots of fans agree with me. TP could've had more villages and the hustle and bustle of townspeople, but did a better job at creating a fun overworld that's teemings with variety than Ocarina of Time did. One of my main complaints about OoT's overworld is that it's quite boring and also very small. Wind Waker takes this even further - 49 islands and one massive ocean can't make up for how lifeless the Great Sea really is. I've said this in a previous post and will say it again - WW is simply too large and doesn't have enough content. I felt that the overworld had potential until I realized that most islands were barely larger than Link himself.

Yes, I agree with you when you say that we need variety. Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker just didn't cut it. Twilight Princess went into greatert detail with its environments but still lacked interactable towns and villages. We had Ordon, Kakariko and Castle Town... but that was basically it. I happen to love feel-good places such as those and TP just didn't deliver. OoT did an even worse job... and WW... I'm not even going to talk about that. The developers at Nintendo should know by now that Skyward Sword needs to have an interesting overworld. Honestly, of all the overworlds I've seen in Zelda games so far, the one that did the best at cramming secrets and such into a small world is Majora's Mask. There weren't many towns or villages, but Clock Town itself was so diverse and brimming with life that it made up for it. Termina wasn't so vast but had a multitude of different characters, making MM feel... shall I say... much more alive.

Nintendo has stated that Skyward Sword will have a smaller overworld than Twilight Princess. All I can hope for is that SS has more characters, villages and overall more diverse locations. It seems from what I've seen, that SS's overworld looks pretty big and diverse. Hopefully it will incorporate elements from other Zelda games into the overworld. What I mean by that is an ice world, a desert world, a water world and a fire world. This concept has been used in just about every Zelda game since A Link to the Past and I'm hoping that Skyward Sword can do a little more with the ice and desert environments. Twilight Princess certainly gave Gerudo Desert and Snowpeak a feeling of isolation... but I'd rather have more characters placed in areas like those. Maybe Gerudos can make a return? Or maybe some penguin people for the snow world?

Those are just my thoughts. I hope that SS has a great overworld - we don't want a repeat of WW, do we? :hmm:
Is that what you think than why is oot crowned the best zelda game in the series, some know it as the best game ever.

here are a couple sources for that comment: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=239815 , http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/03/2051221

here are a couple saying that zelda TP is the worst zelda ever http://oreillywriter.com/gamefilter...-game-ever-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess/ , and one comming straight from zelda universe: http://oreillywriter.com/gamefilter...-game-ever-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess/

ignore the second link it is false

With this aside i am not saying that twighlight princess is a really bad game and a matter of fact i've beaten it twice what i am saying is that twighlight princess is nothing in comparison to oot and hardly deserves the title of zelda

i does, but hardly by a narrow margin

all this about twighlight being better than oot.... buffalo sh^t
 
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