• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Evolution in Hyrule

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
We've seen many changes in the races over time between the games. We've seen Octorocks go from giant monsters to little pests. Where in Ocarina of Time, Poes look like this
latest

In Twilight Princess, they look like this
latest

We are pretty sure that some races, such as the Zora -> Ruto, were evolved magically, but others I wouldn't be quite so sure of. For example, the chus in Twilight Princess versus in Wind Waker. Do you think that this was evolution? Magic? Both? And not just for these races, but for any.
Personally, I think that it's all evolution for the enemies. The zolas, the chu chus, etc. I can't think of a reason that one of the deities of Hyrule would want to magically transform any of them. The same with the hylians (OoT) -> humans (OoT). Maybe it was the lack of magic after the flood that caused the transformation to the round-eared ones.
As for some of the other races, like the Kokiri -> Korok, it was based on magical manipulation from a minor deity, like the Deku Tree.
What do you guys think?
 

Retro Ganon

Canon-Candy-Coded
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Location
Gannon-Banned Island
Gender
Demon Theorist
We are pretty sure that some races, such as the Zora -> Ruto, were evolved magically, but others I wouldn't be quite so sure of. For example, the chus in Twilight Princess versus in Wind Waker. Do you think that this was evolution? Magic? Both? And not just for these races, but for any.

Can you list the evidence for the Zora -> Rito evolution? I always wondered why the Zora even had to evolve, when they should have been the ones to benefit from the Great Food. Jabune certainly did.

On the idea of 'magic' facilitating evolution, I think its plausible in most cases concerning monsters like Poes, Moblins, Chus, Keese, etc.

As for some of the other races, like the Kokiri -> Korok, it was based on magical manipulation from a minor deity, like the Deku Tree.

Koroks seems to be the exception to 'natural' evolution for this reason,

Great Deku Tree:
Every year after the Koroks perform this ceremony, they fly off to the distant islands on the sea and plant my seeds in the hopes that new forests will grow.Forests hold great power, they can change one tiny island into a much larger land.

Soon, a day will come when all the islands are one, connected by earth and grove. And the people who live on that great island will be able to join hands and, together, create a better world. Such is my dream.


I think this evolution was given to the Kokiri so they could survive away from the spirits surrounding the Great Deku Tree. Back in the day I use to think this was evidence towards the 'New Hyrule' concept, but then ST ruined the basis for that theory. So much for the Maku trees :dry:
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
Can you list the evidence for the Zora -> Rito evolution? I always wondered why the Zora even had to evolve, when they should have been the ones to benefit from the Great Food. Jabune certainly did.
The salt water burned their skin I think. The lake was fresh water. The ocean was not. Jabun, being a minor deity associated with water, wouldn't care.
And in case you didn't know, it was Valoo who gave them the wings.

On the idea of 'magic' facilitating evolution, I think its plausible in most cases concerning monsters like Poes, Moblins, Chus, Keese, etc.

It could make sense, but in the case of most magical forms of evolution that I point to, there's been intervention from a much more powerful being. I don't see much of that coming for the enemies.

Koroks seems to be the exception to 'natural' evolution for this reason,

Great Deku Tree:
Every year after the Koroks perform this ceremony, they fly off to the distant islands on the sea and plant my seeds in the hopes that new forests will grow.Forests hold great power, they can change one tiny island into a much larger land.

Soon, a day will come when all the islands are one, connected by earth and grove. And the people who live on that great island will be able to join hands and, together, create a better world. Such is my dream.


I think this evolution was given to the Kokiri so they could survive away from the spirits surrounding the Great Deku Tree.
That makes perfect sense.
 

Retro Ganon

Canon-Candy-Coded
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Location
Gannon-Banned Island
Gender
Demon Theorist
The salt water burned their skin I think. The lake was fresh water. The ocean was not. Jabun, being a minor deity associated with water, wouldn't care.
And in case you didn't know, it was Valoo who gave them the wings.

That's most likely the more plausible reason, good point. And yes, I do remember Valoo giving the Rito cases of Red Bull.
I wonder if Valoo's role in their evolution has anything to do with the powers of the three guardian dragons in SS - Faron's powers being inherited towards evolving the Zora specifically.

It could make sense, but in the case of most magical forms of evolution that I point to, there's been intervention from a much more powerful being. I don't see much of that coming for the enemies.

I speculated that the monsters changing form between different eras might have to do with the current evil one's magic posing threats on Hyrule at the time. We know Ganon has that affect in the case of the Moblin-like species - and this transcended even outside the affects of the Dark World oddly enough. And Zant was able to corrupt the form of the Twilight Realm inhabitants through Ganondorf's powers as well. There isn't much to base it off of other than a few minute examples, but that's the matter of magic.
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
That's most likely the more plausible reason, good point. And yes, I do remember Valoo giving the Rito cases of Red Bull.
Probably Red Cukoo there. They're obviously more dangerous than the cows in Hyrule.

I wonder if Valoo's role in their evolution has anything to do with the powers of the three guardian dragons in SS - Faron's powers being inherited towards evolving the Zora specifically.
Very good question. Dragons are rare in the series, but they always have great power with them. Also, those three are probably the ancestors of all dragons. I'll say that I agree and I'll look more into this later.

I speculated that the monsters changing form between different eras might have to do with the current evil one's magic posing threats on Hyrule at the time. We know Ganon has that affect in the case of the Moblin-like species - and this transcended even outside the affects of the Dark World oddly enough. And Zant was able to corrupt the form of the Twilight Realm inhabitants through Ganondorf's powers as well. There isn't much to base it off of other than a few minute examples, but that's the matter of magic.
That's a good point. It could be a mix of the two though. After all, in WW a and PH the chus are the same despite the games having different big bads and different worlds. The Moblin and Zant points are very good though.
 

Retro Ganon

Canon-Candy-Coded
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Location
Gannon-Banned Island
Gender
Demon Theorist
Probably Red Cukoo there. They're obviously more dangerous than the cows in Hyrule.

lol

Very good question. Dragons are rare in the series, but they always have great power with them. Also, those three are probably the ancestors of all dragons. I'll say that I agree and I'll look more into this later.

Yeah they are rare. But now I think we have an equal ratio between good and evil from which we've seen in the series thus far. When I get time I'll probably look more into it myself.

That's a good point. It could be a mix of the two though. After all, in WW a and PH the chus are the same despite the games having different big bads and different worlds. The Moblin and Zant points are very good though.

Well, maybe their should be a difference between the natural 'terrain enemies' and baddies that are in clear service of the present evil.
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
Yeah they are rare. But now I think we have an equal ratio between good and evil from which we've seen in the series thus far. When I get time I'll probably look more into it myself.
I'll tell you if I come up with something.


Well, maybe their should be a difference between the natural 'terrain enemies' and baddies that are in clear service of the present evil.
This I could agree with. Should we call them mooks (Twilight Beasts, Moblins, etc) and beasts (peahats, like-likes, etc)?
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
I don't exactly think evolution in the Zelda works like it does in reality. Evolution seems to be divine intervention helping nature adapt rather than small subtle changes over thousands even millions of years that we see on earth.

The biggest example is the Rito, who showcase the biggest change in their physical appearance than any other race in what is really an unbelievably short amount of time. Well saying that the time is rather ambiguous, we know a few hundred years passed between OoT and Ganondorf's first arrival, but the evolution didn't take place then because we know that Laruto (a Zora) was still alive. It does imply though that the time between the flood and the events of The Wind Waker aren't as long. So it's biologically impossible really for this drastic change in appearance to actually happen, so I don't think that's the case here.

So that brings me on to the Gods. The higher ups of Hyrule can still call upon them which shows that, even though they left, they still have an influence. Big example of this is the Great Flood where they intervened in order to save the people - including the races. So if they can still intervene then they probably can influence other changes in nature such as physical adaptions. They most likely had a large hand in giving the races of old new appearances and new purposes to fit the Great Sea, which meant a change for the Zoras who couldn't survive on a vast ocean.

The way I see it, evolution, or adaptions, don't happen naturally but instead via the Gods. If a race is in danger, they probably intervene to restore the balance.
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
Laruto (a Zora) was still alive.
Incorrect. Both her and Fado were spirits.

It does imply though that the time between the flood and the events of The Wind WakSo it's biologically impossible really for this drastic change in appearance to actually happen, so I don't think that's the case here.
For the zoras? I concur.

They most likely had a large hand in giving the races of old new appearances and new purposes to fit the Great Sea, which meant a change for the Zoras who couldn't survive on a vast ocean.
Also agreed. However, it was probably indirect and through Valoo.

The way I see it, evolution, or adaptions, don't happen naturally but instead via the Gods. If a race is in danger, they probably intervene to restore the balance.
Then how would you explain the enemy races, like Chuchus?
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Location
England
Gender
Absolute unit
We've seen many changes in the races over time between the games. We've seen Octorocks go from giant monsters to little pests. Where in Ocarina of Time, Poes look like this
latest

In Twilight Princess, they look like this
latest

We are pretty sure that some races, such as the Zora -> Ruto, were evolved magically, but others I wouldn't be quite so sure of. For example, the chus in Twilight Princess versus in Wind Waker. Do you think that this was evolution? Magic? Both? And not just for these races, but for any.
Personally, I think that it's all evolution for the enemies. The zolas, the chu chus, etc. I can't think of a reason that one of the deities of Hyrule would want to magically transform any of them. The same with the hylians (OoT) -> humans (OoT). Maybe it was the lack of magic after the flood that caused the transformation to the round-eared ones.
As for some of the other races, like the Kokiri -> Korok, it was based on magical manipulation from a minor deity, like the Deku Tree.
What do you guys think?

Moblins and Bokoblins, in fact, pretty much all enemies are spawned from Demise or Ganon. Their creator can decide how they look. For instance Ganon in the wind waker has his moblins look like pigs, this is probably because he takes on a piglike form himself. In OOT they look more like bulldogs perhaps because Ganon Ganondorf had not taken on the form of Ganon and they were his first batch. Ganon had created many different batches over the years which is why they look different each time.

There is also the stylistic choices of the developers. Chus in WW are made to have eyes and look cute. In TP they went for a more realistic look and just made them a jellylike creature with no real features.
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Tangent Universe
Moblins and Bokoblins, in fact, pretty much all enemies are spawned from Demise or Ganon. Their creator can decide how they look. For instance Ganon in the wind waker has his moblins look like pigs, this is probably because he takes on a piglike form himself. In OOT they look more like bulldogs perhaps because Ganon Ganondorf had not taken on the form of Ganon and they were his first batch. Ganon had created many different batches over the years which is why they look different each time.
That makes sense. But is there a difference between a mook like a moblin and a guay, which is just a crow, yet looks somewhat different between game?

There is also the stylistic choices of the developers. Chus in WW are made to have eyes and look cute. In TP they went for a more realistic look and just made them a jellylike creature with no real features.
while true, I meant out-of-meta :P
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Location
England
Gender
Absolute unit
That makes sense. But is there a difference between a mook like a moblin and a guay, which is just a crow, yet looks somewhat different between game?


while true, I meant out-of-meta :P

I think the guay must evolve through natural selection rather that being a spawn of Ganon. They look more like simple crows in SS and OOT for instance but fast forward to TP their beaks have taken on a different form.
C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_TPGuay.png
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
Incorrect. Both her and Fado were spirits.
Eh? They were spirits in the game, yes, but they were previous Sages, which was my entire point.

This quote here explains it quite well:
Hyrule Historia said:
"Hundreds of years passed, and Ganondorf, who should have been sealed at the bottom of the ocean along with Hyrule, was resurrected once again. He gave an order to his minions to attack the Wind and Earth temples, killing the two sages whose prayers gave the Master Sword the ability to destroy evil."
My point was that Zoras existed hundreds for years after Ocarina of Time, which makes the actual "evolution" very quick to the point where it can't be considered any form of evolution.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
My guess is they wanted to draw em differently.
 

Jirohnagi

Braava Braava
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Soul Sanctum
Gender
Geosexual
Eh? They were spirits in the game, yes, but they were previous Sages, which was my entire point.

This quote here explains it quite well:

My point was that Zoras existed hundreds for years after Ocarina of Time, which makes the actual "evolution" very quick to the point where it can't be considered any form of evolution.


My thought is, Time was held off from the sages look at the OOT Sages, Only Ruto changed and i suspect that was so she could hit the age of becoming a sage. What i am saying is that Both Fado and Laruto were most likely immortal to the ravages of time meaning they could still die from being poisoned or stabbed or beheaded, The changes in bother the Kokiri and Zoras and they changed into their Wind Waker forms would have taken a very long time and wouldn't have been quick, hence the ravages of time changing the races both to fly in their own way.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom