Equality in video games (Not sure what to call this topic honestly)

[the8thark]

There's not enough enough of a certain minority (or in some cases majority) group in video games so some developers just cram in more and more content to appese these groups and in doing so lose the original vision and feel of their game franchises.

The fans at times cheer when a ethnically diverse or different character is added to a game. Marina, Twintelle and human Tyrael three recent examples of this. A portion of the fanbase cheered because of what the characters were and looked like, not because of how well they would integrate into the game franchise and improve it overall.

That's the arguement some are using to push video games into accomodading more diverse characters from around the world. Do you agree with this?

I don't agree with it - to a point. I'll explain below.

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My personal opinion is the above 3 mentioned characters Marina, Twintelle and human Tyrael are great inclusions into their respective games. I'd glad they exist. Because they really improve what the game is all about and the game's story. What gets me is how the fambase cheers over characters based on certain nationalities or races but not others. Take ARMS as an example. The fans cheered over Twintelle being added to the game but they didn't cheer for Minmin who is linked to Asian culture. It's almost if they don't care for overall diversity, only if their perfered group is represented in the game.

I agree we can't forget any racial or other group and ignore them in gaming. They all deserve their place. But any character should not be put into a game just to pander to a specific group. The chatacter should totally benefit the game and help define the core concepts the game already has established.

Diversity in gaming is inportant, as long as people push for all groups to be represented in some way, not just their own perferred group. This si not equality of outcome, it's more like equality of opportunity. The developers put all options on the table, all different diversity options and the best ones make it into the game.

 

[Turo602]

Diversity for the sake of diversity adds nothing of value to any given experience. I don't want more Asian, Hispanic, Black, or Indian characters to be forcefully represented just because the developers feel they need to reach some kind of quota of racially diverse characters. That doesn't make a character or story more interesting. I don't root for characters based on what color their skin is nor do I feel the need to be shamelessly represented in every piece of media I enjoy. Putting down or applauding someone's vision because of trivial details like "who was represented and who was left out" is not only stupid, but a complete regression for society.

 

[Lozjam]

Diversity is important in many ways, not really on a social justice angle, but just in character variety.

Breath of the Wild actually does this perfectly, in which the 3 human races, the Gerudo, the Sheikah, and the Hylians look like and analogous to people of Caucasian, Middle Eastern, and Asian descent. They all have different cultures, different strengths, and different important characters. And within this, you get variety from the characters.

This obviously isn't needed for all games, however, it is nice when it is done well. Characters in general should just be able to stand on their own, and not on their race. If their "main" feature is their race or gender, then that is what I have a problem with.

Marina is just an octoling that happens to be dark skinned. Nothing more. Her race doesn't change anything in how she interacts with the world, and it shouldn't. Marina was brilliantly done, and she is a great character. Same with Twintelle.

 

[Castle]

I don't really think there's anything that can be said about this that hasn't been repeated a bajillion times already but since you asked, here goes.

Diversity for the sake of diversity is dumb. Not only that but it's arguably offensive on the basis of it being pandering and condescending. I'm not against "muh minorities!!!" in muh videya gaymes, but there's a difference between a female protagonist ala Aloy just because why not? and black female Nazis in Call of Dooty. I mean, just how ridiculous does this have to get before it stops being funny?

Diversity quotas are every -ism rolled into one. It's gross virtue signaling that disparages people. It cheapens everyone's culture and it cheapens art.

Worse yet is that from now on every time a video game features a female lead or poc or other so-called "minority" (I despise that term) people have to wonder if it'll be done respectfully or if the game will be laden with an incessant barrage of gross virtue signaling. I've lost track of how many times I've had to correct all my "alt-right" compatriots when they disparage Horizon: Zero Dawn for being feminist propaganda just for having a female protagonist when anyone who's spent an hour with that game can tell you that it's anything but. I can't say I blame them for making the assumption though, but it's unfair to HZD that it has to face that stigma because other people are so horrendously cheap and irresponsible about how they do the "diversity" thing.

 

[YIGAhim]

Forced diversity is not the way to go, but they did diversity well with Marina

 

[Stormageden747]

With Marina it was executed perfectly. I think that diversity is a good thing, to an extent. See, if a video game gets taken off the market for having all white NPCs then that's dumb. But on the other hand, if the game has racist things in it such as someone bullying another for color of skin, ect, then it is bad.

I once watched this ProtoMario video where someone took something to an extent. In the video he reads an article where the author is mad about Twintelle's hair. Saying she has been taken off planes for having "Weaponized Hair." Now Nintendo tried a bit of diversity with Twintelle, but this lady just found something else to be mad about. It seems people are not actually offended by things, and more just want to pick on something and other s***. Here is a link to the video.

 

[Castle]

Just as this discussion got brought up, I came across this little number over on OneAngryGamer. An example of the sort of offense I was talking about in my first post.

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/...al-koreans-pushing-sjw-feminist-agenda/46878/

 

[the8thark]

Marina is just an octoling that happens to be dark skinned. Nothing more. Her race doesn't change anything in how she interacts with the world, and it shouldn't. Marina was brilliantly done, and she is a great character. Same with Twintelle.

With Marina it was executed perfectly.

In a more western frame of mind, I would agree with you. However all of the japanese feel of the previous pair are not present away with Marina. That is just the new direction Splatoon 2 went in. Not wrong, just different. Personally I would prefer the game to always keep it's Japanese feel but I realise I'm in the minority. If there's ever a Splatoon 3, it will have even less of a Japanese feel to it.

Nintendo in my opinion should always stick to their Japanese roots. It's what's kept them in business for 100 plus years and it's why we all like Nintendo today. They are uniquely Japanese. If this fades away over the years from Nintendo I'll be quite disappointed. Quirky strange Japanese things in their games is what makes them cool. Strange to us only though as most of these Japanese things are based on Japanese culture and history if you research them up.

I'm not against this at all. I just want it done within the Japanese style. If Nintendo becomes just another western style of game publisher because it's what the USA wants, then I'll be really disappointed. There are enough US developers out there already. The RARE of old, Playtonic now, are amazing in this regard. They are typically British and their games have a British feel to them. It's, in part, why their games are so amazing. If they took out this British feel in their future gamesthey would not be the same and that little bit of Playtonic uniqueness would be lost.

Keep diversity in, that's important, but also don't use your national identity as a developer in the process.

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On a side note, Mario Odyssey gets away with this by having each main kingdom based on a continent of the world. Bowser's Kingdom is packed full of Japanese references. So many that it's mind blowing. Everything from feudal references to modern day references and everything inbetween. Most of Nintendo's hit games and IP's don't feel that Japanese though and that's the brilliant part. They made the games very Japanese as well as very accessible to a world wide audience.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I don't really understand the issue.

If more minority characters are included in different mediums of art, what's the issue? Why is the alternative--the straight white male/female--considered to be the default? How is a story hampered by the inclusion of minority characters? Furthermore, what are the symptoms of a minority character being forced into a story versus one that is "organically" introduced?

 

[Nicolai]

The way I look at it, diversity in media is an important macro issue, but in isolation it never adds to or detracts from the story in any way. I've never noticed a story or game being better or worse because of a character's ethnicity, and I usually hold them to the same standard.

It's kinda like when a restaurant donates to a charity. It's awesome to hear, but it's not going to make the food taste any better or worse.

 

[el :BeoWolf:]

I don't like diversity when it's forced. I shouldn't need to meet some quota to please some political agenda. I should be allowed to make the game how I like. I do think diversity in games is nice on it's own though. It adds a variety and makes things more interesting. I notice when people say "diversity" they really mean less whites and more blacks.

 

[Dio]

I don't see why games shouldn't feature diverse casts but at the same time I don't agree with using them to push a particular agenda forward or meet quotas. You can often tell when they have done it for this purpose and it just feels forced. Especially when you have too many transgender ginger black mexican Jews in your game.

When I play a game I don't even want to think about that sort of thing. I just want to be taken to that world and immerse myself in it not going there and questioning whether the game director is pushing their agenda on me.

 

[Salem]

If someone wants to add "diverse" or "minority" characters, even for purely superficial reasons, so what? Why is it something that needs to be discussed again and again?

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I don't like diversity when it's forced. I shouldn't need to meet some quota to please some political agenda. I should be allowed to make the game how I like. I do think diversity in games is nice on it's own though. It adds a variety and makes things more interesting. I notice when people say "diversity" they really mean less whites and more blacks.

But that still doesn't answer my question. What, according to you, are the differences between a minority character being "forced" into the story versus one who is introduced "organically"? I posed this question in my initial response, but no one has addressed it.

 

[the8thark]

I don't really understand the issue.

If more minority characters are included in different mediums of art, what's the issue? Why is the alternative--the straight white male/female--considered to be the default? How is a story hampered by the inclusion of minority characters? Furthermore, what are the symptoms of a minority character being forced into a story versus one that is "organically" introduced?

Equality of opportunity is always better than equality of outcome.
It's always better to have a developer put all options on the table and choose the ones that best suit the vision and direction of the game. Being forced to choose certain options just to meet diversity quotas as an outcome in the final finished product is wrong.

Also if you look at the world as a whole, the straight white people are the minority. There is a lot more people of asain and african decent in the world. Your default is actually catering to a minority on a global scale. The better question to ask is why do people (yourself included) consider the white minority to be the go to default?

The best way to look at this is to have all options on the table and choose the ones that best fit what the game will be. In the majority of cases this will lead to better games and whatever the characters in game look like and act like will be totally fine. Some games have more of one racial group or gender or religious group than another. But it fits within the context of the game and it's fine. Good developers understand this. Set a game in Egypt and you'll have more Egyptians and other north african people in the game. However set a game in the USA and you'll have people more repesentatiive of what the US population looks like. it all makes sense based on where the game is set and what the game is trying to be. Nothing is being forced, there is no diversity quotas. Just intelligent choices made by the developers. Well by good developers, that is.