General Zelda Dungeons in Quantity or in Size?

[Justac00lguy]

In my opinion I think one of the most distinct aspects of a Zelda game are actually the dungeons we encounter and the general experience within them. A dungeon in my opinion is the place where all the content and game play aspects gets condensed into a 1-2 hour game time. This is where we face a variety of enemies, encounter a range of puzzles, gain new items, uncover treasure, admire the design/music and face a specific boss. All in all I think dungeons are vitalto any Zelda game and iI would say that to a certain extent that I base part of my views of a Zelda game on how my experience was with the dungeons.

The question is though whether to have this experience set out through a variety of unique dungeons or to have a less amount filled with more content and a better experience all together. One thing I think Majora's Mask showed us, is that we don't need to have plenty if dungeons in order to have a good experience, each dungeon in this game was actually rather challenging considering their order. They each got more difficult and more complex as you advanced to the next dungeon and they were filled with tons of puzzles and content, enough to keep us happy anyway.

So if just four dungeons can provide us with sufficient content, then why not continue this trend? This is where I would say that having multiple dungeons in a way is actually better. If we have more dungeons that could mean more variety, more diverse ways of playing, different and unique experiences, not to mention enemies and bosses etc. So I want to know what you guys personally prefer, would you rather bigger dungeons-less quantity or higher quantity-average sized?

 

[Ventus]

Quantity easily beats out quality in this regard, Majora's Mask being the rare (increasingly so, with modern Zelda's tending towards casuals) exception. Look, the point is, when I go through a dungeon i want to be challenged. If challenge simply will not be presented due to the way the game is styled, then at least give me a multitude of meaningless objectives dungeons to go through. :I

 

[CynicalSquid]

Quality>Quantity

I'd rather have a few dungeons that are very complex and make you think than have a bunch of different dungeons that are easy.

 

[JuicieJ]

I think Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are the two prime examples of why quality is better than quantity.

Twilight Princess has a pretty large amount of dungeons, and each of them last a fair amount of time. Problem is their puzzles aren't up to snuff with the standards the N64 games set, especially late game, and almost all of them follow the same predictable pattern. This results in most of the dungeons feeling spread thin rather than providing long and grueling experiences like that of Majora's Mask. I'll give credit to the Forest Temple, Lakebed Temple, and Snowpeak Ruins for having some solid design, but the rest were either average or downright awful (*ahem* City in the Sky).

Skyward Sword, on the other hand, has a moderate amount of dungeons, a number of which are relatively short. However, they're designed tightly with enthralling challenges that leave you with a sense of accomplishment. This is especially true of the Earth Temple, which literally only has four rooms, one of which is optional. The central room is massive, though, and it's chock full of tricks and surprises, never once letting up on the action. Plus it was really unique with the rolling ball used to cross the deadly lava. SS does have its extremely long dungeons that whittle you down bit by bit the further you go (Lanayru Mining Facility, Fire Sanctuary, Sky Keep), but the rest range from short to medium in terms of length. But that's okay due to their ingenious design.

This is why quality will always trump quantity. Bigger isn't always better, and the latest two console Zeldas have shown us this clear as day. I have nothing against lengthy dungeons, but they need to have proper content to back up the amount of time spent in them if they want to be fulfilling rather than hollow.

 

[DarkestLink]

Dungeon size vs quantity? ...They're the same thing.

In terms of quality vs quantity, they aren't exclusive. I found the dungeons in OoT and TP to be some of the best. For me it's OoT>SS=>TP>ST>MM>tWW

 

[SpiritGerudo]

I say it's more of a balance between in-dungeon gameplay and out-of-dungeon than about the dungeons themselves. I love Majora's Mask, and I think its dungeons were some of the best in the series. However, I didn't really like where the dungeons were actually so long that I would do them over several days. On the other hand, having a lot of shorter dungeons isn't a good idea either; it leads to the way-underused, mostly-meaninglyless, single-dungeon-exclusive item set that we saw in Twilight Princess. Even good dungeons like in Ocarina of Time can get to the point of kinda, almostish bad when they aren't spaced out. I remember playing Wind Waker and I kept waiting for that neutral part when I would just be given a list of like five dungeons to go to and I would be free to do what I want and do the dungeons as I please (I wasn't looking forward to it, I just kept expecting it), but it NEVER CAME, and I was pretty impressed. I don't think dungeons should have to be one or the other, being long and complex or have many in quantity, I think more in-depth out-of-dungeon gameplay should set off a the dungeons whether they're shorter or whether there are few of them, or both.

 

[RedLink]

I remember playing Wind Waker and I kept waiting for that neutral part when I would just be given a list of like five dungeons to go to and I would be free to do what I want and do the dungeons as I please (I wasn't looking forward to it, I just kept expecting it), but it NEVER CAME, and I was pretty impressed.

Does not this kind of contradict itself?

 

[JuicieJ]

Does not this kind of contradict itself?

I'm sure she meant to say "depressed".

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

I have to say that quality is much better than quantity. I'll use Twilight Princess as an example. IMO, TP had some of the best dungeon design, but most of them failed to meet the quality standards associated with earlier and later titles like OOT, MM, and SS. TP had a lot of dungeons, which I liked, but the puzzles were generally too easy, and lacked variety for the most part. The three other games I mentioned above had (with the exception of MM, which didn't need it) a lot of dungeons. They had the quantity, but they also had the quality of dungeons I like to see. I really enjoyed the jump in difficulty from Dodongo's Cavern to Inside Jabu-Jabu's Belly, and the even bigger jump to the Forest Temple, which completely outshined all the previous dungeons in terms of difficulty, design, and puzzle solving. It may be tied with the Spirit Temple for my favourite dungeon in the game. MM had 2 easy dungeons (which both had at least some difficulty) and 2 difficult dungeons, plus a really fun mini-dungeon (of course I'm talking about the well... jkjk, that dungeon sucked. I'm talking about the Ancient Castle of Ikana). SS's dungeons sort of attempted to stray away from the linearity seen in the previous games by having you revisit many different rooms in the dungeons *ahem, Earth Temple* The dungeons in TWW didn't have quantity or, to a degree, quality, but they were still fun, and had some interesting and unique puzzles

All in all, quality is definitely more important than quantity. It is cool to have a lot of dungeons, yes, but it's not fun if they're all boring dungeons.

Oh and, when I think Quality, I think design, difficulty, and puzzle-solving

 

[Justac00lguy]

Dungeon size vs quantity? ...They're the same thing.

No dungeon size is the size of that dungeon in terms of actual content and time spent in there, quantity refers to the amount of dungeons in the game. I didn't choose quality as I wanted this discussion to be about the size of dungeons vs the amount of dungeons, as quality doesn't relate to size that Is why I didn't name the thread that... An example would be that; Majora's Mask has 4 dungeons that are rather large in size however a game like Skyward Sword has 7 dungeons that in comparison are rather small, therefore which do you prefer?

 

[Ventus]

No dungeon size is the size of that dungeon in terms of actual content and time spent in that specific dungeon, quantity refers to the amount of dungeons in the game. I didn't choose quality as I wanted this discussion to be about the size of dungeons vs the amount of dungeons, as quality doesn't relate to size that Is why I didn't name the thread that... An example would be that; Majora's Mask has 4 dungeons that are rather large in size however a game like Skyward Sword has 7 dungeons that in comparison are rather small, therefore which do you prefer?

Size and number are not mutually exclusive even in that regard. I prefer to have multiple LARGE dungeons; the short kinds seem like needless padding (ironic because all dungeons are useless padding - it's just a matter of fun). And just because I have multiple dungeons on Majora's Mask scale doesn't mean I have to have a stunted amount of dungeons. OoT had, like, 8 or 9 dungeons correct? They all felt big in their own rights, especially since htey get larger as time progresses (pun intended).

 

[DarkestLink]

Ahhh, in that case quantity. Size sometimes needs to annoyances like Ganon's Tower in aLttP and quantity gives us more variety of puzzles. Still I overall prefer my dungeons to be longer and they aren't exactly exclusive. TP had some of the longest dungeons in the series. Ironically, Hyrule Castle was my favorite. XD

 

[HylianHero]

Both. We should be able to have multiple large dungeons, not just a bunch of small one, or a couple large ones, but a bunch of large ones.

In TP, I was really impressed by the number of dungeons and that made me really happy. But the dungeons were wanting in puzzles and design.

In SS, the dungeons had great in-depth puzzles and good design, but I actually wished there was another cycle through the regions in that game, adding three more dungeons. In WW too, one of the best changes that could be made to that game would be to have a dungeon to get the pearl Jabun has. And to bring it up to the number of dungeons OoT and TP have, why not add two more dungeons where you have to awaken more sages?

Both ways left me wanting, showing how having both together is the best way to go.

 

[snakeoiltanker]

I dont see why it has to be one way or the other. what happen to the good ol 3 intro dungeons, then 7 main quest dungeon. i know you guys are tired of me going all retro on you, but ALttP had 10 dungeons, actually 11 if you count the castle. Most of the dungeons were above average in size, and others were just HUGE! OoT was basically the same! I want that back. WW had what 6 total..TP felt just right to me so i wont say anything about that, and with SS it seemed that some of the Overworld sections were cheap replacements for dungeons, and i dont like that, i want actual dungeons.

NTM SS making you return to areas you have already been through to get something else later in the game..... Just Rubbish. Im ready for a Dual World to return, it seems that when they make a dual world they do a better job at not reusing assets later in the game, and the whole game you are taken to new places as the story progresses, if you ever return to an area in ALttP its only cuz you have a new item, and you can reach something in that area, that you couldnt before. I know im bias, but even though its not a 3D game, i thinks as far as Formula and Structure of the game goes, ALttP is the best in the series. Dont get me wrong, the 3d titles have added some things that ALttP just cant touch, but i feel they are trying to much now, so they need to return to the basics and just give us a long solid game, built on what the KNOW they can do. take the structure of ALttP and apply it to a 3D game, i know thats basically what OoT did, but guess what OoT is one of everyones favorite games is it not..... i rest my case!

 

[winterbbytumblr]

I'd rather have 6 or 7 good length, not too short but not too long, challenging dungeons. That is my idea of a perfect dungeon concept.