Breath of the Wild Do You Want ZeldaU to Be a Light-Hearted Game or Dark?

[Blu Ray]

Hey Blu, if graphics are so unimportant then why do you care so much? Seriously, we get it. You don't like realistic graphics. Good for you.

Coincidentally this discussion isn't entirely about graphics it's about tone and style. The nature of the graphics is far from the only thing that can determine the mood of a video game. And this thread is certainly not about what sort of graphic style or quality is better than some other.

There is a big difference between not liking realistic graphics and thinking It doesn't fit the series. It was just a discussion with another member, am I not allowed to do that?

Skyward Sword isn't cell shaded.
I've never called SS cel shade.

Wind Waker sold way more than TP on GameCube and It sold only 1.2m less than Twilight Princess on Wii. In case you didn't know, GameCube wasn't that successful, which also had some impact on the sales. During Wii early life It lacked games (like every console), TP was there, thus the large sales.

I wouldn't call Customer Satisfaction and 2x the sales a waste.
Customer Satisfaction has nothing to do with graphics, actually, lot's of complains these days are that games are just about graphics. 2x the sales won't happen just because of graphics, never did.

Let's see....TP took longer to make than Wind Waker, yes, but it sold nearly twice as much and had more content. And heck, SS had a simpler art style than TP and it took longer to make.
WW suffered due to initial bad reaction towards the graphics (and more reasons), but It sold a lot. TP was overrated and I already explained It's sales (same goes for WW, read what I said previously). SS development time had nothing to do with art style but building a complex engine.

I must have imagined the pre-Wind Waker hate that existed solely because of graphics. And yes, it does need to be realistic. That has been a huge focus since OoT, with Miyamoto obsessing over the most minute details to make sure it was as realistic as possible.
Look at WW sales, they aren't low. OoT isn't realistic. Don't blame N64 capability, the game is very anime and colorful. 007 Golden Eye is realistic, compare the color palettes.

It can be improved yes, but not enough to show the Wii U's true potential.
Show off Wii U potential on a series that requires realistic graphics, Assassin Creed III, Call of Duty, etc. Zelda doesn't and make It realistic just because you can is not a good reason.

Not really. There's a team working on this individually and their progress has little impact on how fast the game comes out. They could complete their goals in half the time and it'd still make no difference since they need to rely on the progress of the other groups.
The graphic style can make a impact on the engine, cause glitches, affect the animation (which also will influence the engine) and much more. Also, Uncharted 3 on a 50gb BD had more than 30gb spent on graphics, so yeah, It can also take a lot of disc space, which can influence everything else as you have to make sure there will be space for everything.

Really? Seemed to work well with TP. Gaining far more sales than its predecessor, doing better among critics, and honestly, the game felt faster paced to me. Dunno about you.
Seriously, really want to throw that kind of comparison? Skyward Sword was released on the end of the life of an console that was pretty much dead, required motion plus which would force quite a few people to buy It just for the game and was release only for Wii (not Wii + GC). Already explained WW bad sales. Keep in mind TP is slower paced compared to Skyward Sword and lot's of It's flaws weren't viewed by critics due to initial hype.

A lot of your arguments are based on Twilight Princess sales. You have to keep in mind there are lot's of things that you should consider that would explain those sales, not only It's graphics. Anyway, I won't repeat those things, just read what I've said and you'll get It.

Well, hate to be the Devil's Advocate, but I actually DO buy Zelda games for their graphical capabilities. Granted, the games on every system prior to Wii U won't be at the forefront of console gaming as far as graphics are concerned, but games like TP and SS, with their blur and jagged edges problems respectively, are worthy to be dissected, at least for the hardware they're placed on. What I'm getting at is that while Zelda may be on consoles, they should still make the MOST of the hardware they're on graphically speaking. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask did it (I think). Why can't Zelda U?


The thing is, Skyward Sword like TWW took a very minimalist approach to graphics. SS might have a nice art style, but it will never be able to show off the true potential of the Wii U. I'm not saying realistic graphics are the only way to show potential, but SS and TWW both cannot do so because they will never make use of every single graphical capability.

For that reason, I'd much rather a TP-esque or Wii U tech demo-esque graphical feel. And to go along with that, darker themes just because. Death, murder, derision, other such things would be fitting for such a game.

I doubt most people buy Zelda mostly for the graphics, that's just something the series ain't known for, you're an exception, exceptions shouldn't be used as arguments. Graphics is something that helps me love Zelda series too though, specially WW and SS. SS does have amazing graphics for such limited hardware. OoT and MM did because It was a VERY limited hardware, but the colorful graphics show that It was also cartoonish.

Did you know that Skyward Sword while less realistic used more of Wii potential than TP? Probably not, right? There is a lot of room to improve on SS and I've already explained that and with enough improvements I'm pretty sure you can make It use almost as much of Wii U potential as Black Ops 2 for example. Not only graphical improvements (texture, animation, polygon count, bones, etc) but also being able to make It run on 60FPS while 1080p can also help with that. Did you know no PS3 or 360 game has ever done that? The odds are, a Wii U game with too realistic graphics won't be able too. Btw, It took more than 6 years for people to use PS3 full potential, Crysis 3 will be the first game, Zelda is simply uncapable of that. Nintendo will never be ******** enough to completely change the way Zelda is just make It have more realistic graphics and use Wii U full potential, It's just not the right series to do that.

I'll be content with any style sans cel shading or the lighthearted realistic mixture that was Skyward Sword. The former I dismiss due to be the most prominent graphic style in the past ten years-it's long overdue-whereas the latter I failed to find particularly striking. I've always been a fan of minute details are impressionist immersion.

I'd appreciate a darker toned Zelda game for once. Although this doesn't equate to a world as bleak as Twilight Princess's, the color palette in Majora's Mask was clearly muted as well with an equally poignant narrative and fitting design choices. What I don't want Nintendo to do is emulate successful mature rated adventure games on the market like The Elder Scrolls, Batman Arkham, and Assassin's Creed. Every franchise needs to establish its natural pace and evolution should be natural, not forced by consumer demands or perceived backwardness. I'd argue the combat is Zelda is better than any of those games; while the world and plot could use some tweaking, Zelda remains in an upper videogame tier nonetheless.

This is how I feel. Zelda shouldn't be like those games, It just doesn't fit. Zelda doesn't have to use Wii U full potential, leave that task to another game.

Exactly. At this stage, it all boils down to personal opinion. I guess it's just the facts that you have to back up your opinion that really make it stand out.
I personally, think that realistic graphics can be used incredibly, and so can cell-shaded graphics - but in order to make the most out of this 'HD Console' that Nintendo promised us, I'd prefer realism.

This isn't much of personal opinion as you think. For example, Assassin Creed kind of realistic graphics can highly impact some characteristic elements of Zelda series, no more Chu Chu or those commical looking/cartoonish characters that been there all along (Even on Twilight!). That's what some people fail to comprehend. Just because It works well for one series, It doesn't mean It will work well for Zelda. Wii U capability can benefit cartoonish graphics a lot too.

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Just so people won't complain about me going off topic... I usually preffer darker games but while Majora's Mask kind of dark hit the spot, Twilight Princess on the other hand, just failed to amaze me, so I don't really mind what kind of direction the game takes as long as Nintendo do It right. Since I highly believe Wii U will have 2 Zelda games, might aswell have one of each. I assume the first Zelda will have shorter development time to be released during early Wii U life so I hope Nintendo recycle Skyward Sword graphics (so they will focus on gameplay) but still give It improvements, you can easily make It MUCH better. As for the second Wii U game, darker. The graphics could be a more cartoonish version of the tech demo, I'd say that fake Majora's Mask remake trailer was perfect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyazYYev7Nw

 

[tel8675309]

Dark... I so want it to be dark lol. That's what I loved about twilight princess, the dark atmosphere and music made the game really memorable for me. I find i didnt enjoy skyward sword as much because it was more happy and cheerful, which is just not my preference in zelda games I guess.

 

[Egregious]

The question really needs to be broken down further into a few different categories. It's 4:00 AM and I really have nothing better to do, so I'm going to just start typing and hopefully I'll get somewhere by the end of this. If not, what are you going to do? Sue me?

GRAPHICS

Even within graphics, of course, there are a range of things to consider. Majora's Mask is an interesting case because despite the dark plot content, I would argue that the graphics were not really THAT dark. Okay, the moon? That was freaky looking. Ikana Valley was also pretty dark. But overall, I believe that the game actually uses many bright, saturated colors to emphasis the surreal nature of the game. Think of all the places that are filled with bright colors:

• The Astral Observatory - I mean, it really looks like someone put a gay pride organizer in charge of decorating this place. The colors are very intense, especially on the stairs leading up to the telescope.

• The Swamp - In the "cursed" version of the swamp, the water is purple, the plants are this bright orange color, there are vivid greens as well. (It just occurred to me, why don't you just look for yourself at these places? Swamp and Observatory)

• Goron Graveyard - What? Surely this doesn't have bright colors in it... Nevermind.

• Majora's Mask itself - Yes, it is freaky looking. But if you actually look at it, it is made up of very vibrant colors.

I could list more, but you get the idea - a game can still have a "dark", "moody", or "surreal" feeling while still having colors. This is what my emphasis is, because I feel that Twilight Princess is missing several vibrant colors. Where is the orange, purple, magenta, bright red, etc? There are some nice greens and uh... browns and some... yellows.

My point is that it felt at times like the world of Twilight Princess was being viewed through a dusty camera lens, or a sepia filter, or something. The graphics aren't bad, necessarily... they just don't use the full spectrum of available colors.

If I had a line to the developers (I don't, but let's for a moment just pretend that I am actually someone relevant) I would tell them this: Don't fear colors. Don't fear contrast. Part of feeling like you are in an epic world is having a world of extremes. I want the fiery magma core of the volcano to be rich with reds, oranges, and yellows, visually overwhelming as a world superheated beyond belief should be. I want the deepest recesses of an icy cavern to have heart-stopping shades of indigo, grays, light filtering blue through miles of ice. And yes, in parched desert areas, I want to learn all of the intricacies of a brown landscape, from the peachy beige of the sand to reddish sandstone cliffs. And the forest should be all kinds of bright and dark greens, and swamp muck should reek of browns, maroons, and purples.

I want to see colors. All of them. Light, dark, vibrant, desaturated - used to create a captivating environment. I think Skyward Sword was on the right track with this, but I still could have used more infusions of TP and Majora's Mask weirdness and yes, darkness.

STORY

I don't want a light story or a dark story. I want a complex story. This isn't to say that I think there needs to be a bunch of oh-so-shocking plot twists. I want characters with complicated motivations. Having a villain whose motivation is either pure greed, or just some sort of inherent evil, is not interesting. A villain whose poor decisions arise from the societal flaws around him/her and their personal history. I guess this comes down to philosophy, but I don't think that people come into this world or leave this world as wholly good or evil. I think we are shaped by the world around us, and we do both good and bad things in our attempts to come to terms with social inequity, mortality, limitless human want, etc. I want the characters to experience human emotions. We all know that Ganon wants to take over Hyrule. But I want to know why he wants to take over Hyrule. Does he have a personal grudge against the reigning monarchy? Did he have a crappy childhood? What corrupted him and lead him to make these decisions?

Apart from complex characters, another thing I want to see is sharp conflict. Conflict is what drives the story. I want to see these characters react against desperate circumstances, to take an active role in trying to change outcomes, even if the situation changes to thwart them. Why does Link need to stop Ganondorf? To save the world is too abstract. Let's deal in specifics.

I also want to see humor - even Majora's Mask had injections of humor here and there. Games that strive to take themselves too seriously often invite ridicule, or satirize themselves accidentally. Yes, we need to feel worry and tension as we play, but these feelings need to be put into perspective by moments of relief and happiness as well.

BUT WHAT ABOUT... GAMEPLAY?

Zelda games are games first and stories second. If they weren't games, they'd be books. Or movies. Or something else that is not a game. I can respect that most of the developers' attention will probably go to developing great physics, puzzles, items, level design, etc. But I don't think it's unfair to hold them to high standards as well for an amazing story and amazing graphics as well. Do I sound entitled? A little. I understand that they work very hard on these games, but I feel also that they can't just rest on their laurels for being Nintendo. They are one of the biggest and best developers, which is why I have high expectations for what I want to see in the end.

I know this seems really critical - let me just say that I have loved every Zelda game that I have played (I haven't played Adventure of Link yet though...) and I respect what they have done. But I also want to see Nintendo working to make the series better and better and better each time. I don't want them to repeat past mistakes. It's sort of like a never-ending Goldilocks situation. Imagine if she had an infinite number of bowls of porridge to choose from. This one's too hot! This one's too cold! This one's too salty! This one is too bland! This one is too sweet! I would hope that in tasting all the different bowls of porridge - my metaphor here is equating bowls of porridge with the developer choices for story, graphics, and gameplay - that she will keep narrowing it down closer and closer to that perfect bowl of porridge.

I just reread the last half of that paragraph and it's kind of ridiculous. In fact, this entire post is ridiculous... and now it's 5:00 AM. I really should go to sleep soon.

Anyway, this - all of this, this whole post - is just my opinion, so please don't take it SO seriously. If I bothered to re-read it (I didn't) I probably wouldn't even agree with some of the things I said within the past half hour! But this post says what I want to see, more or less, at the time that I wrote it. In my world, the ideal game is a Zelda game that is light, dark, and everything in between. Colorful, rich, vibrant, filled with emotion and complex characters, creative puzzles, and fresh level designs. Obviously I know that this ideal is not actually attainable, and that even if a game was made with all of this in mind, it could still be better. But I don't think it's wrong to have high ideals as long as they are tempered by realistic expectations, and a genuine effort on the part of the developers to make the absolute best game possible.

 

[Donutwizard]

:bleh::bleh::bleh:I want it to start out light but get darker as the storyline progresses. And somewhere in between SS's and TP's graphics. This is off-topic, but I am writing this on my Wii U Gamepad.

 

[bspurka]

I would love to see the new Zelda U as a dark Zelda game, based on the downfall timeline just to add more of a depressing feel. All the games on the downfall timeline are all 2d I would like to see how Hyrule looks in 3D HD. I would also like to see the art style they chose for Ganondorf's take over.

 

[Austin]

I'd prefer a game that couldn't be classified so simply, personally. It would be nice to have a game capable of making you feel both extremes in equal measure. I'd use Ocarina of Time as an example as I really don't see it as a "light-hearted" game at all. It had its fun moments but it also had quite a bit of despair, not to mention its bittersweet ending.

 

[Myriadviper42]

I would like to see a mix of both, with a darker story overall, but with light-hearted moments and some gameplay.

 

[HatredHazard]

I'm not so sure myself. I really want this next game to create a lot of atmosphere, a lot of feeling...I don't know, like surreal and dreamy with some nightmarish in there. I realize that sounds a lot like Majora's Mask, so maybe that's what I want, the spiritual successor of Majora's Mask (not necessarily a sequel). Although, I think if the entire game were surreal/dreamy/nightmarish, that would make for a very sentimental and heavy experience. I also love how the light-hearted Zelda games can make you feel like a little kid. Both sides have their strengths.
So I think I'll go with Not Take Mirror's comment about being somewhere in between.

 

[elliotstriforce]

i would like the next zelda game to be darker in storyline, i seem to enjoy the heavier zelda games more so than the light hearted ones. that's just my opinion.

 

[Deeds]

i seem to enjoy the heavier zelda games more so than the light hearted ones. that's just my opinion.

Yeah, even with the lack of dark zelda games, they still come on top as my favourites.

 

[ZeldafreakCJM]

There are dark Zelda games?:hmm: Majora's Mask sure maybe a bit...but they've all been relatively in the same ball park so to speak. I just want ZeldaU to be announced already, whatever it is I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

And as a side-note Twilight Princess does not have a realistic art-style, for Nayru's sake Link's head alone is completely out-of-proportion with the rest of his body. If anything TP is the Brawl to Ocarina Of Times Melee.

 

[Ninja YoungLink]

Let Nintendo decide,as they can make they're decisions. Because we're not making the game, are we?

 

[Nine-tailed Fox]

I personally would prefer a darker Zelda. After feeling cheated by TP and fooled by SS (remember the dark looking concept art?), I need to feel a dark feeling I haven't had since Majora's Mask. Some would argue that Majora's Mask isn't all that dark, but what other Zelda game is about an entire world's life in your hands? I haven't felt that the people really need saving since then. I want to feel like the people are really in some sort of danger. Most of people of the other games (besides OoT maybe) have no clue there's something even going on out of the norm.

 

[LavaAnon]

I think Zelda U should be a Dark sided game, simply because the Dark games tend to have more engauging stories and just gets more fun out of playing it and beating it. But personally, I wouldn't mind either just because it's a Zelda game and it will be amazing no matter what.

 

[sailormars109]

I would love to see another dark Zelda game. TP may have been dark, but I loved it. They made such a dark game have a very emotional story. Maybe that's just because I cried at the end because:

Spoiler

Midna broke the Mirror of Twilight! Plus, she cried. And it was obvious that she loved Link. Or at least I thought it was.

#MidnaXLinkforever