• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Spoiler Do You Think the Time Travel Was a Cop-Out?

Joined
Jul 7, 2012
:hmm: Im trying to wrap my head around the aspects of Skyward sword's time travel, did we really need to? dont get me wrong the Time shift stones were awesome. but its the near ending events that have me thinking, to were Link has to go back in time to battle Demise. it to me dosent exactly make sense, If Demise was sealed in the past, then why do we must go from the Present to the Past do defeat the main villein? in OOT i can understand this going from the Past to the future to stop Ganondorth, thwart his plans then return to the past to warn the king. At least this did something to the Zelda universe creating the 3 time lines we all know today. But in skyward sword to me this feels like Nintendo Couldn't figure out how to progress the story and ending, so they Pulled a OOT on us and sead
" ahh time travel will fix the situation and we will make an excuse on why we had to put it in their. after all OOT is our #1 best zelda game and it has Time travel "
( ok not a real Quote) This feels Rushed, after all when you do go back in time you cant really go anywhere to explore the past. they could had made it were link had to get 3 ancient items that no longer exist in the present to Progress the story, now that Could work, you have more exploration beat the 3 last Dungeons then return to the present with the 3 items then Gerihim Kidnaps Zelda > U go chase after her > Hoard battle then the Ghirahim battle, No Time travel really needed. Am i the only one that feels this way, or am i missing something? If you was the Head Game designer for the Zelda Franchise how could you make SS work without having to go back in time?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
It's simple really. The Imprisoned was killed in the present time when that Goddess Statue fell down on his head and crushed him. But the Gate of Time leads to an era where The Imprisoned is sealed away but still alive. And that is Ghirahim's plan. If he can't have Demise revived in the present, then he can kidnap Zelda and revive Demise in the past.

It's a plot twist. Link destroyed The Imprisoned with the Triforce and thus freed Zelda from her slumber. You get this heartwarming reunion and believe that you have reached the end of the game. But wait, Ghirahim shows up and kidnaps Zelda to revive Demise in the past, meaning that the crisis hasn't been avert and your journey hasn't ended yet.

I don't get the cop-out time travel argument at all. A real cop-out would be having Skyward Sword end with Zelda awaken from slumber after the Imprisoned was crushed by a rock and reunites Link with no interference with Ghirahim. They all get a happy ending with everyone coming down to the Surface, leaving many fans disappointed about the fact that there was no epic final battle from either Ghirahim or Demise.
 

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
It's simple really. The Imprisoned was killed in the present time when that Goddess Statue fell down on his head and crushed him. But the Gate of Time leads to an era where The Imprisoned is sealed away but still alive. And that is Ghirahim's plan. If he can't have Demise revived in the present, then he can kidnap Zelda and revive Demise in the past.

It's a plot twist. Link destroyed The Imprisoned with the Triforce and thus freed Zelda from her slumber. You get this heartwarming reunion and believe that you have reached the end of the game. But wait, Ghirahim shows up and kidnaps Zelda to revive Demise in the past, meaning that the crisis hasn't been avert and your journey hasn't ended yet.

I don't get the cop-out time travel argument at all. A real cop-out would be having Skyward Sword end with Zelda awaken from slumber after the Imprisoned was crushed by a rock and reunites Link with no interference with Ghirahim. They all get a happy ending with everyone coming down to the Surface, leaving many fans disappointed about the fact that there was no epic final battle from either Ghirahim or Demise.

I disagree about it being that simple because you are now presented with a time paradox. If Link defeated Demise in the past, then there shouldn't have been an Imprissoned in the present. But there was because Link defeated him before he defeated Demise. How could Link defeat Demise in the past (Link's present), yet he's still living in the present (Link's past)? Some people tried to explain to me that Demise exists outside of time and therefore could still be defeated in the present and then in the past, but I couldn't accept that because if it were true defeating the Imprissoned in the present should've killed Demise in the past as well. Or, you would have to defeat him in ALL timelines before he is completely defeated from any timeline.

I don't know if I would consider the SS time travel a cop-out. because it could've worked out. I understand that they wanted to add drama and have a way for you to fight Demise. I'd just consider it bad writing because of how it was done. Zelda is not very good with handling time travel. Their best moment was in TP where what Link did in the past had absolutely no effect on the future because he went to a secluded location where none of those foes would be seen in the future. When you're working with time travel you have to have clearly defined rules. The DC universe says that no one can change the past no matter how hard they try (even though some people decided to break that rule). Star Trek universe says that the past can be altered, but when it is, it will cause a butterfly effect that will effect the entire universe except those who helped change the past. If Zelda has predefined rules, which I highly doubt, they are not made clear the player. And while I don't believe in explaining EVERY concept in a story, time travel is one that should be brought to the viewer's attention because otherwise they will get confused. You don't have to have some nerd saying "well the effects of the time traveling particles cause space to shift and..." no. You can, but its not necessary. All you can do is have a character say something like "why do things look so different? Is it because I changed the past?" or "Apparently my events in the past had no effect on the future." Creating a world with rules is pretty much the foundation of making a decent story and acknowledging, or just mentioning, those rules can greatly help your audience understand what you were trying to do. Otherwise, people feel you just made up stuff.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I disagree about it being that simple because you are now presented with a time paradox. If Link defeated Demise in the past, then there shouldn't have been an Imprissoned in the present. But there was because Link defeated him before he defeated Demise. How could Link defeat Demise in the past (Link's present), yet he's still living in the present (Link's past)? Some people tried to explain to me that Demise exists outside of time and therefore could still be defeated in the present and then in the past, but I couldn't accept that because if it were true defeating the Imprissoned in the present should've killed Demise in the past as well. Or, you would have to defeat him in ALL timelines before he is completely defeated from any timeline.

Why would existing outside of time make him be defeated in the past as well? That's the complete opposite of what would happen.

Also. Bootstrap paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Location
Indiana, USA
To paraphrase both Shadao and Random Person, the going-back-in-time business really isn't a cop-out, but it's far from simple. The lack of explanation for confusing plot elements isn't inherent to Skyward Sword; almost the entire Zelda series is guilty of some sort of unclear definition (the Temple of Time seeming to jump around from location to location being one point). Skyward Sword just decided to end itself on the note of time travel, which is probably not the best time to wrap things up if you're not planning on explaining everything.

But as Shadao said, Link was not sent to the past specifically to defeat Demise - at least, not until Ghirahim made it clear that doing so spelled death for them all. Zelda went to the past before them for two reasons. One, she needed to escape from Ghirahim, who very nearly caught her until she and Impa went back in time, out of his reach (until he discovers the second Gate near the end of the game, of course). Two, after revealing key information to Link when he caught up to her, she would seal herself in crystal to prevent Demise from breaking out of his own seal early. In the present, you can actually see the crystal Zelda is sealed in behind the doors where old Impa sits, before you even talk to her. This is where Nintendo should have sat down with the player and explained why Zelda has already sealed herself if Link hasn't actually caught up to her yet. If he has, then the events of Skyward Sword should already be over, and Link continuing his journey is pointless. Perhaps it simply means Zelda would have sealed herself if Link hadn't come and talked to her first.

Going on, Zelda was only in the past for her own safety and to preserve the seal on Demise. In the present, Link squashes Demise like a bug and wakes the crystallized Zelda up - still in the present. Ghirahim seizes the opportunity to kidnap her and enter the Gate of Time to resurrect Demise in a previous era, and it's only now when Link must go back through time. Technically, the game wasn't supposed to end with Link returning through the Gate of Time. He was supposed to kill Demise in the present, and that was that. The world as we know it is saved. Ghirahim's plot was to take Zelda to the world as we didn't know it and continue his schemes there.

It should also be noted that in the past, Demise was only just sealed. Killing him then would kill him in all the future eras as well, and there would be a very small window to go back to in order to find him still alive, if it was at all possible - the Gate of Time may only take those who enter to certain eras rather than wherever they wish. You'd also be hard-pressed to find someone who both remembers Demise's existence and is willing to resurrect him, considering Ghirahim is gone.

All in all, the time travel itself was not a cop-out. It made perfect sense on its own, and Nintendo knew what they were doing. The side-effects caused from the time travel were cop-outs, and Nintendo's guilty of cop-outing through the whole series. It's one thing to use mystery as a strength, but another entirely to refuse to fill in necessary gaps because you want the fans to do your share of the work. I must agree with Random Person's previous viewpoints in that Skyward Sword raised more questions than it answered - even "solutions" such as the Master Sword's origins bred some new problems, such as how it was said in A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess that the sages of old crafted it whereas it was all Link's doing in Skyward Sword. Nintendo makes a lot of cop-outs in the series, but the time traveling aspect of Skyward Sword, on its own, is not one.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
even "solutions" such as the Master Sword's origins bred some new problems, such as how it was said in A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess that the sages of old crafted it whereas it was all Link's doing in Skyward Sword. Nintendo makes a lot of cop-outs in the series, but the time traveling aspect of Skyward Sword, on its own, is not one.

This is what's called a retcon. It makes sense because the stories of the Master Sword in past games were just legends. Legends are often obscured by the mists of time.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
QUOTED FOR TRUTH TO THE EXTREME!

Keep in mind that Skyward Sword is not alone in this. Every Zelda game makes this "mistake".

Again, I realize time travel makes perfect sense in the game, but the writing and many other elements, to me, make it seem as if the writers got tired of it and decided to egg on yet another reference to the past 15 major Zelda releases.

What makes you so certain that it was just to make a reference to OoT? I'm pretty sure that wasn't Nintendo's goal, as time travel isn't unique to OoT and it was done much differently in SS.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
I did know about Zelda in the Crystal from the beginning and that was an interesting twist. but still it just seemed that it was abit rushed. it might had been interesting for it Like i sead in my Intro of this thread if it was more useful like showing us what skyloft looked like Before it was sent the the Sky, or if we needed something from the past and bring it to the present so much lost protental in it . all we had to do was open the time gate, and that was about it, Yes we did use it to get the fruit of life. But couldn't a time shift stone or orb be used other then opening a new gate? Time shift stones were very much used During the game could it had made more sense to use a time shift stone to Manipulate the events other then the New door of time? and yes their is a thread about that ( i dint notice it till after i published this one ) and u should check it out it is quite interesting. but the main idea for this thread is, Does Time traveling seem to feel Rushed and Created due to them not being able to come up with something different thus time travel was their only option. Im sure that a Nintendo WII Disk ( 4.5 Gigabytes ) can easily fit more temples and new landscapes.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom