General Modern Do You Like Fighting Every Area Over Again?

[ihateghirahim]

Zelda games often make you redo a mini-version of every area you've been in towards the end. OoT had a pretty good one. MM had an optional, but still weird one on the moon. WW made you go through all the bosses. TP took it to a new level by actually taking you these locations. SS had an awesome dungeon design, but the content might not have been the best. Anyway, do you reliving what you have done? Or do you want to avoid these and get one with the final boss?

 

[snakeoiltanker]

as you can see by my avatar, i am a big megaman fan, so something i was used to was having to prove what i learned throughout the game at the end, topped off with proving i was able to defeat all the level bosses with skill and not luck.

i love games that do this. you have all the levels where you learn lil tricks to pass certain obstacles, and enemies that you have developed strategies for. then after the main levels you go to a few levels that mix up all the themes and tricks into its own idea. Some game will go as far as giving you one last level that will cycle through all the themes used in previous levels, all segmented by the boss that represents that level. Its a Summary Level if you will. Its a good way for you to run through all the skills and story plots so that you are fully aware of what the game and story consisted of before the Final Conclusion. LOVE IT!

 

[JuicieJ]

i love games that do this. you have all the levels where you learn lil tricks to pass certain obstacles, and enemies that you have developed strategies for. then after the main levels you go to a few levels that mix up all the themes and tricks into its own idea. Some game will go as far as giving you one last level that will cycle through all the themes used in previous levels, all segmented by the boss that represents that level. Its a Summary Level if you will. Its a good way for you to run through all the skills and story plots so that you are fully aware of what the game and story consisted of before the Final Conclusion. LOVE IT!

Dang it, you stole all my thoughts. Meanie!

In all seriousness, this post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject, so instead of repeating it, I'll just say, "What he said."

SS had an awesome dungeon design, but the content might not have been the best.

Wait, are you saying the Sky Keep wasn't a good dungeon? That was the best final dungeon since the Stone Tower Temple.

 

[ihateghirahim]

The different rooms and the shifting layout was an excellent idea, but I just wish there were some more exciting things within each room.

 

[Kupsacker]

Yeah, I love it. I think the Sky Keep is the best example of that.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

It seems everybody who's posted here shares my opinion. I love being able to fight these challenges again. Ganon's Castle and Sky Keep are perhaps the best examples of this. You don't exactly go back to the previous dungeons, but you fight similar enemies and puzzles in rooms very similar to said dungeon, and I loved it. The Moon is another good example; however, the fact that you need every mask in the game in order to explore the dungeon in its entirety kind of disappoints me.

TWW was OK, but it should have had more than one puzzle per room. The puzzles were too easy, anyway.

The only example I can think of in TP is the battle with Zant. Is that what you were referring to? That's not really the same thing. Sure, you return to the boss rooms, but you don't fight the boss again... You fight Zant in a battle themed after that boss.

Overall, though, I do love 'revisiting' areas during the final dungeon. I feel like it's what a final dungeon should be, not like TP's Hyrule Castle (I like that dungeon as a whole, just not as a final dungeon).

 

[JuicieJ]

The different rooms and the shifting layout was an excellent idea, but I just wish there were some more exciting things within each room.

I still don't know what you mean. Some of the most devious design, both puzzle and danger-wise, comes from the multiple rooms.

 

[Ventus]

I don't particularly like doing it because it feels like a shallow attempt at (re)creating a "distorted space." That is, it seems to me like the developers were aiming to have a twisted version of past locations but executed it in such a manner that felt like nothing more than a rehash. No mind-warping, no confusion, just the same ol same ol.

 

[DekuPrincess]

I like it, especially in a game that I've been playing over a long stretch of time. A lot of times I'll play up to the final dungeon/mini-dungeon (the castle in OoT, Sky Keep, Moon, etc) and then take a break from the game for a few weeks or even months, and when I come back to finish it off I like having that little recap. Like others have said, I also like having to revisit old skills that I might not have used for a while--especially when I get stumped, it makes me feel like the game is putting me in my place for thinking I was kicking it. I actually had a really hard time with the Sky Keep the first time around--I could not for the life of me figure out where to roll the bomb in the fire room with the three switches. It also took me ages to figure out how to get the trees out of the way. That room was probably the hardest puzzle for me to solve in the entire game.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I am actually strongly against this idea that the last so called "Dungeon" should contain content from previous dungeons...

I don't know why some games have took on this idea, me personally I really dislike Ganon's Castle amd Ganon's Tower due to this reason. For one its just seeems like a memory check more than anything. One thing I welcome well in dungeon design is variety, new theme's Etc. This is one thing that I though Twilight Princess excelled at, we saw nine dungeons and each were unique in there own way, even the final dungeon. When a Dungeon like Ganon's Castle does this, it didn't actually feel like a dungeon, it felt like a series of Mini Dungeons.

I think Hyrule Castle from TP was a great example of how a final dungeon can break away from this idea and actually stand on its own as being completely unique. One could say this about the Skykeep and even though I loved the design and the atmosphere I couldn't help but notice that when breaking down the dungeon, it was essentially just a series of Mini Dungeons.

Of course there can be many pro's of having these type of dungeons as it will require you to take everything you have learnt and master it. However I think if implemented mit should be done in a more subtle way, Stone Tower Temple was a great example of this. The dungeon was unique on its own and in design but it also tested you similar puzzles, area's and bosses but it didn't seem like a series of Mini Dungeons. Overall I think I would like to see Nintendo move on from this idea and actually make the last dungeon unique on its own.

 

[Starblast16]

I like to play through every part because it feels good when I finish everything and it keeps me from getting bored.

 

[DekuPrincess]

Of course there can be many pro's of having these type of dungeons as it will require you to take everything you have learnt and master it. However I think if implemented mit should be done in a more subtle way, Stone Tower Temple was a great example of this. The dungeon was unique on its own and in design but it also tested you similar puzzles, area's and bosses but it didn't seem like a series of Mini Dungeons. Overall I think I would like to see Nintendo move on from this idea and actually make the last dungeon unique on its own.

I find it very interesting that so many people are pointing to Stone Tower Temple as an example of a great last dungeon. What about the Moon? Not required, but it is basically the final mini dungeon (I completely agree that these types of "dungeons" should not be considered complete dungeons as they are short, recycled, usually do not contain a mini boss or an item, etc.) while Stone Tower Temple is the final full dungeon. I think that what works for me about these recap mini dungeons leading up to the final boss is that I do not think of them as the final dungeon. The final dungeon is the last big thing I do before heading off to fight the final boss--Spirit Temple in OoT, Stone Tower Temple in MM, Wind Temple in WW, Twilight Palace in TP, Fire Temple in SS. They're more like a coda, one last little barrier between you and the boss, but not a full fledged dungeon. Because of this, I do not think they should be judged on the same basis as regular dungeons--they aren't as big or atmospheric but that's fine because they serve a different purpose.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I find it very interesting that so many people are pointing to Stone Tower Temple as an example of a great last dungeon. What about the Moon? Not required, but it is basically the final mini dungeon (I completely agree that these types of "dungeons" should not be considered complete dungeons as they are short, recycled, usually do not contain a mini boss or an item, etc.) while Stone Tower Temple is the final full dungeon. I think that what works for me about these recap mini dungeons leading up to the final boss is that I do not think of them as the final dungeon. The final dungeon is the last big thing I do before heading off to fight the final boss--Spirit Temple in OoT, Stone Tower Temple in MM, Wind Temple in WW, Twilight Palace in TP, Fire Temple in SS. They're more like a coda, one last little barrier between you and the boss, but not a full fledged dungeon. Because of this, I do not think they should be judged on the same basis as regular dungeons--they aren't as big or atmospheric but that's fine because they serve a different purpose.

Well I see what you mean but technically they still count as a Dungeon, in fact the final dungeon should in a way not only be the most challenging but the best experience. I see you mentioned the Palace of Twilight as being the last full dungeon in TP, however I don't see this. For one Hyrule Castle isn't a simple revision of Mini Dungeons, it actually is unique in its theme. Also this dungeon is on par with being one of the bigtest dungeons in the game, I certainly wouldn't discount this as a proper dungeon. Also this dungeon had everything what makes a Dungeon, a great design, epic setting, amazing atmosphere, clever puzzles, mini bosses, Dungeons map/compass/big key.

 

[DekuPrincess]

Well I see what you mean but technically they still count as a Dungeon, in fact the final dungeon should in a way not only be the most challenging but the best experience.

I think this is where we disagree--I am fine with either option for a final dungeon

I see you mentioned the Palace of Twilight as being the last full dungeon in TP, however I don't see this. For one Hyrule Castle isn't a simple revision of Mini Dungeons, it actually is unique in its theme. Also this dungeon is on par with being one of the bigtest dungeons in the game, I certainly wouldn't discount this as a proper dungeon. Also this dungeon had everything what makes a Dungeon, a great design, epic setting, amazing atmosphere, clever puzzles, mini bosses, Dungeons map/compass/big key.

There are two things that keep me from counting Hyrule Castle as a proper dungeon, and I am probably technically wrong on this (although I think I've seen Axle argue convincingly that City in the Sky is the last full dungeon in TP) but here they are: (1) There is no item in the dungeon. (2) It can't be completed and saved. This is a little nit-picky on my part, I know, but I think it is part of the reason why I just don't feel the area leading up to the boss is a true dungeon--it is, by nature, only complete when the boss is beaten and the game is over. Which means any time I go back into my save file, I still haven't finished that "dungeon."

Additionally, with Hyrule Castle, although it is much more like a dungeon than other final dungeon-type areas in other Zelda titles, it is very easy to skip the vast majority of the dungeon by accident and the mini-bosses don't feel like true mini-bosses to me, especially as the mini-bosses in TP in general tend to be very clearly defined. In Hyrule Castle it's just a series of larger enemies that have been encountered previously (some as true mini-bosses). All in all, I feel like it is a very cool area leading up to the boss, it just doesn't feel like a full fledged dungeon to me.

 

[Justac00lguy]

There are two things that keep me from counting Hyrule Castle as a proper dungeon, and I am probably technically wrong on this (although I think I've seen Axle argue convincingly that City in the Sky is the last full dungeon in TP) but here they are: (1) There is no item in the dungeon. (2) It can't be completed and saved. This is a little nit-picky on my part, I know, but I think it is part of the reason why I just don't feel the area leading up to the boss is a true dungeon--it is, by nature, only complete when the boss is beaten and the game is over. Which means any time I go back into my save file, I still haven't finished that "dungeon."

Additionally, with Hyrule Castle, although it is much more like a dungeon than other final dungeon-type areas in other Zelda titles, it is very easy to skip the vast majority of the dungeon by accident and the mini-bosses don't feel like true mini-bosses to me, especially as the mini-bosses in TP in general tend to be very clearly defined. In Hyrule Castle it's just a series of larger enemies that have been encountered previously (some as true mini-boses). All in all, I feel like it is a very cool area leading up to the boss, it just doesn't feel like a full fledged dungeon to me

I think the reason why people consider the City in the Sky to be the final dungeon is because it is the last dungeon in the game that has a plot quest prior to it, with the Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle you can simply enter. I do see where you're coming from with their being no item but having an item in a final dungeon is quite pointless as you won't be able to use it outside of the Dungeon Etc. I think Hyrule Castle is one of the only final dungeons that can actually be considered as a dungeon but if that is your opinion, then I'm fine with that ^_^