@Mido I think you'll find this interesting.
PS. I have not played Warriors Orochi 4 so I can't comment on how good or bad it is.
There is three, in my opinion styles of world design in terms of world in Warriors/Musou games.
1. Not open at all
Example games - Dynasty Warriors 8, Dynasty Warriors 4, Dragon Quest Heroes and Warriors Orochi 3
In this style you play on individual maps which are only connetced by screens of text or a hub area/town or videos and other stories. Actual gameplay only exists on the specific maps where the battles take place.
2. Semi open
Example games - Samurai Warriors:Spirit of Sanada and Dragon Quest Heroes 2
In this style the main battles have their own areas with typical Musou gameplay but there is also other separate areas outside these battles where you can explore, do side quests and progress the story. This keeps the main battles as we know them but also adds in the more casual side areas that are also quite fun.
3. Fully open
Example games - Dynasty Warriors 9
In this style the game is fully open world. The individual battles are just scripted events which lock you in to specific parts of the map. Outside these battles you are free to travel anywhere you want. There is no information or separate areas between the battles as once the battle is over you're just still in the map.
My opinions on each 3.
I think the not open at all games work really well as long as there's a lot of story inbetween to connect each individual map. SO each map/battle has it's own cintext that fints into the overall story of the game. I think DW8, DW4 and DQH did this really well. WO3 did not. All Warriors have complicated stories, by their nature, WO3 did not make the effort to break it's story down enough into bite sized chunks to make it more understandable. Also how it used the characters didn't help, I think having them all unlocked from the start but you can only use a specific 2 or 3 in each battle would work better. Then after you do the stage you can play with anyone in free mode. Basically this is how DW8 does it.
The not open at all style in my opnion works if the other aspects of the game are designed well enough to seamlessly fit in to this.
The semi open style I think works really well. In the non Warriors games like DQH2 where you basically progress through a linear story you can have specific maps dedicated for more traditional Musou battles and other maps dedicated for loot gathering, story and side quest progression. For those who haven't played a Musou game like this, think Ocarina of Time where you travel from area to area and some of the areas are scripted battle sequences.
Spirit of Sanada does this well also but in a slightly different way. It still has the standard, choose your map/battle screen. It just has some of the options being side quest areas for loot exploration and side quest completion. The side quests when completed allow more options in the first main battle of each chapter. Basically giving you the option to make the battle easier.
For those who have not played Spirit of Sanada you can unlock stratagems. At certain points in each battle you are prompted to activate a strategem if you have unlocked it. You don't have to use a stratagem though, they are pure optional as they cost a Sanada coin to use. The Sanada coins are easy to earn through the game through just playing it. Think of these coins as your main battle stratagem resource you'll be earning and using up all throughout the game. Completing the side objecting in the exploration area unlocks some of the stratagems to use in the first battle of each chapter.
I do think keeping the exploration and the battle maps separate is a good idea. That way you can have more and better scripting in the battles and there's no pointless runnnig around in boring areas to get to the next objective.
The only truly fully open Warriors/Musou game is Dynasty Warriors 9. I think everyone knows now that DW9 as an open world game didn't work. Is this a fault of the game itself or is it proof that Musou games can't ever be fully open world?
I think the answer is a little bit of both. If we compare to Breath of the Wild. A lot of Breath of the Wild is fun exploring and fun sightseeing. Seeing a new location or a new large enemy pop out of nowhere while exploring is really fun. All things Zelda fans love.
What about Musou fans? They want to kill thousands of the enemy and be part of epic battles that change the course of history. Or in the case of games like Dragon Quest Heroes 1 and 2, be part of great adventure games where you are changing history also. This and the Musou style of combat are what the players want. No Musou fan wants to run around a mostly empty landscape just to explore it, no matter how pretty it is. Constant action and a gripping story is what they want.
DW9 has the story but unlike other Musou games the main story elements are so drawn out, it's not one cool battle after the other. You have to spend time rumming around the world to get to the next objective. Also the scope of these objectives/battles are actually a lot smaller then you'd think. Because a lot of the game's resources are already taken up with the open world, the actually scripted battles are a lot smaller then in DW8. Smaller in physical size and scope.
Could a good Musou game be mae in an open world?
I think a spin off game like DQH might do a reasonable job of it. A DW or SW game? Probably not. To put this into perspective. I have played about 40 hours of DW9. I chose Cao Cao and I've barely finished dealing with Dong Zhuo. 40 hours into DW8 and I'd have done most or all of the first campaign I did. I chose to start with Wei as they are my favourite. There is just so much much boring stuff between the action in DW9. A shame as DW9 plays really well and it looks really good. I guess that a good game needs more than good graphics/aesthetics and gameplay. You actually need content, something really lacking in DW9. Well consistent content. Not short bursts between running through a pretty but devoid of life countryside.
What do I want DW10 to look like?
Not fully open world. Closed or semi open would work. I think using the Sanada style could work if you kept it still separated into the 6 campaigns (Wei, Wu, She, Jin, other and Lu Bu). Chapters are usually better for a spin off game like Sanada that really only have one focus or main campaign.
What do you think? What is your opnion in this?
PS. I have not played Warriors Orochi 4 so I can't comment on how good or bad it is.
There is three, in my opinion styles of world design in terms of world in Warriors/Musou games.
1. Not open at all
Example games - Dynasty Warriors 8, Dynasty Warriors 4, Dragon Quest Heroes and Warriors Orochi 3
In this style you play on individual maps which are only connetced by screens of text or a hub area/town or videos and other stories. Actual gameplay only exists on the specific maps where the battles take place.
2. Semi open
Example games - Samurai Warriors:Spirit of Sanada and Dragon Quest Heroes 2
In this style the main battles have their own areas with typical Musou gameplay but there is also other separate areas outside these battles where you can explore, do side quests and progress the story. This keeps the main battles as we know them but also adds in the more casual side areas that are also quite fun.
3. Fully open
Example games - Dynasty Warriors 9
In this style the game is fully open world. The individual battles are just scripted events which lock you in to specific parts of the map. Outside these battles you are free to travel anywhere you want. There is no information or separate areas between the battles as once the battle is over you're just still in the map.
My opinions on each 3.
I think the not open at all games work really well as long as there's a lot of story inbetween to connect each individual map. SO each map/battle has it's own cintext that fints into the overall story of the game. I think DW8, DW4 and DQH did this really well. WO3 did not. All Warriors have complicated stories, by their nature, WO3 did not make the effort to break it's story down enough into bite sized chunks to make it more understandable. Also how it used the characters didn't help, I think having them all unlocked from the start but you can only use a specific 2 or 3 in each battle would work better. Then after you do the stage you can play with anyone in free mode. Basically this is how DW8 does it.
The not open at all style in my opnion works if the other aspects of the game are designed well enough to seamlessly fit in to this.
The semi open style I think works really well. In the non Warriors games like DQH2 where you basically progress through a linear story you can have specific maps dedicated for more traditional Musou battles and other maps dedicated for loot gathering, story and side quest progression. For those who haven't played a Musou game like this, think Ocarina of Time where you travel from area to area and some of the areas are scripted battle sequences.
Spirit of Sanada does this well also but in a slightly different way. It still has the standard, choose your map/battle screen. It just has some of the options being side quest areas for loot exploration and side quest completion. The side quests when completed allow more options in the first main battle of each chapter. Basically giving you the option to make the battle easier.
For those who have not played Spirit of Sanada you can unlock stratagems. At certain points in each battle you are prompted to activate a strategem if you have unlocked it. You don't have to use a stratagem though, they are pure optional as they cost a Sanada coin to use. The Sanada coins are easy to earn through the game through just playing it. Think of these coins as your main battle stratagem resource you'll be earning and using up all throughout the game. Completing the side objecting in the exploration area unlocks some of the stratagems to use in the first battle of each chapter.
I do think keeping the exploration and the battle maps separate is a good idea. That way you can have more and better scripting in the battles and there's no pointless runnnig around in boring areas to get to the next objective.
The only truly fully open Warriors/Musou game is Dynasty Warriors 9. I think everyone knows now that DW9 as an open world game didn't work. Is this a fault of the game itself or is it proof that Musou games can't ever be fully open world?
I think the answer is a little bit of both. If we compare to Breath of the Wild. A lot of Breath of the Wild is fun exploring and fun sightseeing. Seeing a new location or a new large enemy pop out of nowhere while exploring is really fun. All things Zelda fans love.
What about Musou fans? They want to kill thousands of the enemy and be part of epic battles that change the course of history. Or in the case of games like Dragon Quest Heroes 1 and 2, be part of great adventure games where you are changing history also. This and the Musou style of combat are what the players want. No Musou fan wants to run around a mostly empty landscape just to explore it, no matter how pretty it is. Constant action and a gripping story is what they want.
DW9 has the story but unlike other Musou games the main story elements are so drawn out, it's not one cool battle after the other. You have to spend time rumming around the world to get to the next objective. Also the scope of these objectives/battles are actually a lot smaller then you'd think. Because a lot of the game's resources are already taken up with the open world, the actually scripted battles are a lot smaller then in DW8. Smaller in physical size and scope.
Could a good Musou game be mae in an open world?
I think a spin off game like DQH might do a reasonable job of it. A DW or SW game? Probably not. To put this into perspective. I have played about 40 hours of DW9. I chose Cao Cao and I've barely finished dealing with Dong Zhuo. 40 hours into DW8 and I'd have done most or all of the first campaign I did. I chose to start with Wei as they are my favourite. There is just so much much boring stuff between the action in DW9. A shame as DW9 plays really well and it looks really good. I guess that a good game needs more than good graphics/aesthetics and gameplay. You actually need content, something really lacking in DW9. Well consistent content. Not short bursts between running through a pretty but devoid of life countryside.
What do I want DW10 to look like?
Not fully open world. Closed or semi open would work. I think using the Sanada style could work if you kept it still separated into the 6 campaigns (Wei, Wu, She, Jin, other and Lu Bu). Chapters are usually better for a spin off game like Sanada that really only have one focus or main campaign.
What do you think? What is your opnion in this?
But before I begin: