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Did You Like the Dungeon Non-Linearity?

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
D) Make the first 3 or so dungeons have to be in order, then say make the last 5 able to be done in nay order.

Well then you just have the same question with dungeons 4-8

A) Make them all as easy as fourth dungeons?

:cool: Make them all as hard as eighth dungeons?

C) Find middle ground and make them as hard as sixth dungeons?

No it doesn't. A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time both do this and their stories aren't ruined in the slightest.

A Link to the Past barely had any story to screw up. OoT was still lower in story focus. It hardly had any, really, compared to newer games. Not to mention the game was always trying to nudge you to do the dungeons in a certain order.


Dungeons can be made to not be based on specific items. Again A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time had this. There could also be different paths made for different items to create even more non-linearity within the dungeons.

A Link to the Past, yes. Ocarina of Time, not so much.

Fire temple needed bombs, Water temple needed bombs and arrows, shadow temple needed bombs, arrows, and longshot. Spirit Temple needed bombs, arrows, bombs, hover boots, and longshot.

Either way, it's a real shame to take away item potential for the sake of something as silly as doing dungeons out of order.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
I didn't notice that the dungeons were non-linear, i still played through them the same way i would with every other Zelda game, so maybe it didn't matter that they were. I don't remember backtracking in a dungeon either but Skyward was a play it to get it done kind of game for me.
 

MW7

Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Ohio
A Link to the Past, yes. Ocarina of Time, not so much.

Fire temple needed bombs, Water temple needed bombs and arrows, shadow temple needed bombs, arrows, and longshot. Spirit Temple needed bombs, arrows, bombs, hover boots, and longshot.

Either way, it's a real shame to take away item potential for the sake of something as silly as doing dungeons out of order.
I interpret what you're saying as more of item usage than item potential. I actually like not having items be constantly used in every single dungeon because I think constant item usage makes the game more predictable. I think Nintendo really should look back at some of the things A Link to the Past did when making games today. For instance in the ice palace there's a room that requires the hookshot, but you can actually find a way to go through the dungeon without needing to go through that room. Nonlinear elements like that create much replay value.

Also if anything, I'd say nonlinear dungeon progressions enhance item potential (the way I interpret it) because taking items from later parts of the game to earlier dungeons could lead to much replay value. For instance Majora's Mask lets you replay dungeons anytime so one of my favorite things to do is replay Snowhead with the hookshot and already having the fire arrows because it lets you do things very different. I actually have thought about ways Ocarina of Time could have better used its items and came up with two ideas that require nonlinearity. There's an underwater key in the Forest Temple, but many people don't think about how you can have the iron boots at this point in the game. By doing the ice cavern first you can reach the chest without having to lower the water; unfortunately the game designers didn't think that far ahead and you actually can't open the chest underwater (missed opportunity). Another missed opportunity is how the hover boots could have completely changed how the Water Temple could be completed, but unfortunately the game designers arbitrarily make you have the first three medallions before you get the Nocturne of Shadow.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
@MW7

Ohh man, you mean the idea of coming back to a dungeon when you get a new item? Urgh...I hated that so much. That's what we have sidequests for.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
A Link to the Past barely had any story to screw up. OoT was still lower in story focus. It hardly had any, really, compared to newer games. Not to mention the game was always trying to nudge you to do the dungeons in a certain order.

More story doesn't make a difference. It can be done no matter what. There's a thing called non-linear storytelling that could be taken advantage of to compensate for a more involved story.

Ohh man, you mean the idea of coming back to a dungeon when you get a new item? Urgh...I hated that so much. That's what we have sidequests for.

That was a great idea gone wrong in Skyward Sword. If there had been a completely unexplored section of Skyview involved -- and for something other than water -- it would have been an excellent portion of the game.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
More story doesn't make a difference. It can be done no matter what. There's a thing called non-linear storytelling that could be taken advantage of to compensate for a more involved story.

The only reason it worked in places like, say, Ocarina of Time is because there was little that happened. There was no huge plot to mess up. Nothing significant happened when you went to the Forest Temple. You just saved Saria. In the Fire Temple, you just saved the Gorons. They were goals. Not stories.

In a game like, say, Twilight Princess, the order matter. There was the whole desperate search for Ilia after you found the kids. You needed to take Prince Ralis to Kakariko, which you would have had to visit more. The characters and their relationships interconnected and story order matters. Technically, Nintendo could make more cutscenes and dialogue to make different story patterns come from different dungeon orders, but why waste the time? Why put the time into doing this when the outcome is poorer dungeons, more restricted puzzles, and items with less usefulness. All for choosing which order to do the dungeons? I don't even know why anyone would want to choose or even care.

That was a great idea gone wrong in Skyward Sword. If there had been a completely unexplored section of Skyview involved -- and for something other than water -- it would have been an excellent portion of the game.

Actually, I didn't mind it much in Skyward Sword. In Skyward Sword it was a new experience for the same dungeon. In a Link To the Past, it was just a chore. The puzzle wasn't challenging. It was just going back to a dungeon and using your item for an obvious function. It was no more challenging or entertaining than going back to Syrup's to buy a potion. It was just another annoying task you had to add to your list.
 

MW7

Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Ohio
@MW7
Ohh man, you mean the idea of coming back to a dungeon when you get a new item? Urgh...I hated that so much. That's what we have sidequests for.

I don't mean revisiting- I mean doing what's planned as a later dungeon first and then having some sort of new way to do things or an advantage in an earlier dungeon. So in A Link to the Past I meant for instance the first time I played through the game I did it in order. The next time I realized I didn't have to so I did the Thieve's Town dungeon (4) before even attempting dungeons 2 or 3 so that I could have the upgraded sword when going through those dungeons. Another example is realizing that you can do Misery Mire (6) before the Ice Palace (5), and it saves you time because the dungeon item in Misery Mire gives you a shortcut on a puzzle in the Ice Palace. That's what I want to see in Zelda games. Letting you do things in different orders can let players have different experiences in different playthroughs because what items you have at a particular point can change how you do things. There should be a suggested route through the game, but they are throwing away a lot of potential fun for some people by forcing a route on all players.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
It was great. I loved it XD. But really the best part of the dungeons is using all the items u obtained in that dungeon, not just that one dungeon. It was great, and really i hope that future Zelda titles start using this.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Denmark
Yes, I really liked the dungeons in ss, and I often dislike the linear dungeons, but of course, it's good to get a couple linear dungeons for a change. And yeah I liked the exploration factor in these dungeons, it wasn't just going a to b and so on, but you really had to look in every corner sometimes, and even though backtracking isn't that fun, I didn't mind when it happened to me in ss dungeons.
 

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