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Did the Style Remove Some of the Mood?

Joined
Nov 26, 2008
I did like the style a lot, but I suppose the game subtracted from the creepy aspects that the series has always had.

I wouldn't lend it quite as much to the style alone, but rather to the execution of the style. As you said, what made the ReDeads less scary was primarily Link's reaction. If they cut that out and made the situation more tense, it would be a different story I think.

On a side not, I've always felt the Wind Waker variation of the ReDead is by far the most terrifying, if you factor in their appearance, design and behavior alone.
 

Link Master

The Hero's Master
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Yes this is true because it was shooting for the younger ages and also a lot of people probably said some parts in the games were scary. To me when I was younger I was scared of Majora's Mask. In a way they made Wind Waker a little scary for things like dark places with redeads that you can not see. Wind Waker was one of the less scary games and is my favorite Zelda game.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
Back when TWW was released, and I was playing it through for the first time, I found this to happen less. I don't think there's any less frightening creatures, or creepy locales than any other Zelda game though. What I'm wondering is, did the cel-shaded cartoon style remove a bit of the fear and dark mood of some of the locations?

I agree with you; it certainly happened less in The Wind Waker. However, the game wasn't defying convention, but instead simply crafting a unique identity for itself. Each Zelda game in succession had done this. Arguably, Link's Awakening was less creepy in a lot of ways than The Wind Waker, due to its even more lighthearted nature. But it's hard to establish any sort of continuous "mood" for Zelda, expect a consistently adventurous tone that could be called childlike. The Wind Waker has that.

For example, places like the Bottom of the Well in OoT, or the Arbiter's Grounds in TP are really quite creepy. Is it because they are more detailed and realistic?

I found the design of Twilight Princess, with its constant shades of brown, low-key music, and vague fogginess, to be not creepy but boring. In fact, there were several moments in The Wind Waker that creeped me out more, such as the appearance of the ReDeads. Nothing quite frightened me in either game the way moments of Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask did, but The Wind Waker actually boasted character, in part due to its style.

Also, Redeads make an appearance in a few titles. In TWW though, Link's reaction to them shrieking is almost one that you'd find in a Warner Brothers cartoon. It's more slapstick. Because of this, does it relieve a bit of the tension of an otherwise frightening scene? Redeads in OoT are downright frightening to me, but the more vicious attack in TWW that they bring on seemed less frightening.

That's one of the things that's actually a staple of the Zelda series. Again, look at A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. In A Link to the Past, enemies run in place as they hover over pits. In Link's Awakening, they're cast in a chibi enemy style--and the bosses often act like spoiled children.

But again, those games don't feel exactly like The Wind Waker. And Link's reaction hardly makes the encounters with ReDeads humorous--immersed as I was in the game, I was able to take his reactions and expressions seriously in what were for him moments of terror.

So, is this due to the style? Do you find that TWW is less frightening due to the graphics and general tone?

Less frightening than what? Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask? Yes, I do. But I find Ocarina itself to be the most atmospheric Zelda title of them all, so that's a difficult comparison--and I wouldn't sacrifice The Wind Waker's adventurous atmosphere just so I could have a few scares. Even assuming it wouldn't require a sacrifice, I didn't miss those moments, like the Bottom of the Well.

And Twilight Princess didn't help me relive them. Not at all.

Also, I wonder why so many people found Ocarina of Time to be in any way "realistic." In my view, it had as much of a style (an anime one) as The Wind Waker, and was the better for it. By comparison, its textures might have been a bit more detailed and three-dimensional, and the environments were probably more believable (which I appreciate), but none of the characters looked more believable.
 
Q

quillmert

Guest
Also, I wonder why so many people found Ocarina of Time to be in any way "realistic." In my view, it had as much of a style (an anime one) as The Wind Waker, and was the better for it. By comparison, its textures might have been a bit more detailed and three-dimensional, and the environments were probably more believable (which I appreciate), but none of the characters looked more believable.
However, you're forgetting the time setting. OoT came out when 3-D was the cutting edge of video game realism, and although it's certainly not the case anymore, I'm still blown away by nostalgia everytime I enter Hyrule Field. Not that it looks realistic anymore, but I always remember seeing it as a seven year old child and being blown away by the "realism".

People can remember it as looking realistic back when they first played it, but wind waker is an entirely different story. It has a completely different style (cel-shading definitely does make it look more cartoony than OoT) and not only that, but from a realistic standpoint, it was almost a step backwards graphically. It was smoother and looked amazing, but cel shading stripped away any remnants of realism that OoT and MM had begun to cultivate. Taken in context, it's understandable why people look at OoT to be more "realistic" than WW, I look at it the same way myself.
 

Hanyou

didn't build that
However, you're forgetting the time setting. OoT came out when 3-D was the cutting edge of video game realism, and although it's certainly not the case anymore, I'm still blown away by nostalgia everytime I enter Hyrule Field. Not that it looks realistic anymore, but I always remember seeing it as a seven year old child and being blown away by the "realism".

Maybe my experience is distinct, but I never thought Ocarina looked realistic. I will give it this much; there is probably more realism in its graphical design than that of TWW (though no less stylization), due to the way the environments are structured and textured; but it has always, always looked highly stylized in so many ways. That the stylization was perhaps less pervasive in OoT than in TWW does not mean that OoT was "realistic." I would call a game like, say, Turok or Goldeneye (both also for the N64, and both released before Ocarina of Time) or even Resident Evil or Final Fantasy VIII realistic because they aimed for--and, given when they were released, achieved--realism. Compare either one to the Nintendo releases, like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, and I think it becomes evident that both are highly stylized.

There are unrealistic elements in both games by design.

People can remember it as looking realistic back when they first played it, but wind waker is an entirely different story. It has a completely different style (cel-shading definitely does make it look more cartoony than OoT) and not only that, but from a realistic standpoint, it was almost a step backwards graphically. It was smoother and looked amazing, but cel shading stripped away any remnants of realism that OoT and MM had begun to cultivate. Taken in context, it's understandable why people look at OoT to be more "realistic" than WW, I look at it the same way myself.

Again, I concede that The Wind Waker is more obviously stylized than Ocarina when it comes to the environments. I would not call it a step backwards because it is less "realistic" (even supposing that it is), although I do think more could have been done with the cel-shading (see Okami).

It may have been unreasonable of me to say Ocarina of Time was no more realistic than The Wind Waker, but I still think the realism was marginal at best. Again, compare Ocarina to its contemporaries on the major platforms and it no longer looks "realistic." It stands with Banjo-Kazooie, Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot, and other games that may have had some convincing environments, but were not realistic. Ocarina just took itself a bit more seriously than those games, and it showed up in the graphics--but a realistic style would look patently different.
 

Keyshe

Whoo are youu?
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Location
U.S.A., Lost in a forest.
While the cell shaded style is more disarming and innocent then the other 3D games. I think most of it was the choice of the layout of the dungeons, and music, and execution of the game that set the mood. OOT had more of a horror feel in some of the dungeons, and things were presented more dire. But in WW it was more adventurous and mystery, it wasn't just the cell shaded style. Like when when you go to save Tetra in the forest, the music isn't really setting things up to be that intense or creepy. Just a cartoony-mystery feel.

Though I find the cartoony Redeads more creepy and ominous then the OOT or TP's. While they had the realistic look-ish. The execution of the animation and red eyes and scream, really startled and freaked me out. If done right, WW could have been really creepy and dark even with the cartoony art style. To me WW was suppose to be an adventurous game like the old classics. Not a epic dark and dramatic game like TP.
 

Petman1325

Poe Catcher
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Georgia, USA
I honestly think while it took away some of the mood, it also added on to the mood.

When you really think about it, it actually made it express more emotion than Twilight Princess due to the ability to easily change emotions by having the faces "cartoonified". There's just that charm that one can feel from this game and the art style later on in the game. It can still tell a serious story with a silly face. It is just that the style added more instances of comic relief. I mean, I don't want a game that is serious nearly 24/7 like Twilight Princess. Even OoT had some humorous scenes in it's dark art style, as with MM.

Now, it doesn't matter upon which paper the story is written on, but how the penmanship and the story is told. Thus why WW was able to have a dark plot while maintaining a good cartoony look. I mean, the dark style reflected in the Earth-Temple was actually well done. The Re-Deads looked a bit creepy with their over-exaggerated things, like the eyes, bony body, and massive loop earrings. Not every game has to be dark, like some have said, in order to have a great story. Some games come along fine such as A Link to the Past (Well, I didn't perceive it as dark) and Link's Awakening, in which the story unfolds, yet not a lot of death is involved.

So, yeah, it removed some of the mood, but it rather replaced it with much more interesting moods such as creepy (not frightening-to-small-children creepy), happiness (something I didn't see much of in TP), etc.
 

Y2K3

Lushier than Mercy!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Location
Newfoundland, Canada
I've never thought of Zelda as being all that 'creepy' before, so to me, there was nothing to remove with the implimenting of the cel-shaded graphics. Sure, the game was more happy-go-lucky, but I realy enjoyed that.
And like Pet (and maybe a few others) had said, it rather added to the mood when it comes to the emotions. Wind Waker actually got me 'caring' about the characters. Usually I'm more 'meh. whatever happens happens', but here, for example, I actually felt the grandmther grieve.

Perhaps that's just another reason why I like this game so much.
 

Sparky

Crawfish Prime
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Location
New Zealand
Whilst I did feel it took away some of the creepiness factor, I don't think this was entirely intended in the long run.

To me, TWW wasn't as creepy because I didn't feel as alone. In OOT and MM I felt that even though I had a fairy companion, I was somewhat alone in the world, I've never felt as alone in a game as I have during the Adult section of OOT. Same in TP, you were around a whole lot of people, but as most of them didn't know you were the hero, or why you were the hero, you were still alone in a sense.

However, in TWW, it didn't feel like I was alone. It felt like they were people I was fighting for, for a reason more urgent than just the greater good. A good deal of people knew I was the hero and offered their support in their own special away. Therefore without the sense of aloneness, I felt less creeped out in general.

Tis my opinion anyways.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Location
In my coffin
Gender
Non-binary
I don't think that the style hurt the mood of the game at all. In fact I think that it bought more attention to the games mood.
In my opinion Wind Waker has a serious story, the style seemed(for me any way)to bring more attention to the games storyline, because you normally would not think that a game with graphics like WW would have a serious story too it.
 
H

Hero0fTimeLink

Guest
Yea it does. I've never been a big fan of the cartoon look of the zelda games even though i still some-what like them.Although the redeads are not frightening they scare the crap out of me with there scream!But other then that the enemys arent scary at all.But i do wish that Nintendo would stop making alot of these cartoon zelda's we already have like 4 of them now we're getting a 5th!
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Location
Netherlands
It wasn't quite as creepy as some parts of the more realistic ones. It still was one of the most epic Zelda games though.
 

Phlegm

Bake me a pie!
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Location
Bottom of the Well
I think it actually increased my mood during the game! I always wanted to explore new places to see what they look like in a cell-shaded style. I loved it!
 

Nye Pendragon

derparific
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Location
Equestria
I'm very fond the WW's style. :>

It's cartoony and childish, yes, but it's colorful, hilarious and takes away that, "Holy crap this is scary! D:" mood while playing. I feel that the cel-shaded graphics added a lot of 'ZING!' to The Wind Waker, and I wonder if I would love it as much if it were a more realistic style and not full of silly emotions and slapstick humor. But I agree, the cartoon-ish style took away from the 'moody' aspects of the game, but I'm not complaining. I believe this game was /meant/ to look lighthearted and childlike; just look at the character designs! Everything is stylized in a very colorful, light tone, and I believe that's what Nintendo was aiming for: a story with a childlike tone to it, to actually lighten a suprisingly dark story. It looks like a very cheerful and lighthearted game, but there is a dark, sad story to it... that didn't make any sense. XD;

But that's why I think it has this 'cartoon' style... to take away the dark mood and give a more whimsical appeal.
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
The style subtracted from some of the creepier aspects of the game but one thing I say is that it couldn't have if it was done right. Wind Waker has a cartoony style that could easily be deformed into something much more frightening. Take the redeads for example:

Redeadww.gif


Given the proper lighting and stylization you could probably get a frightening atmosphere with the art style. The problem is that a lot of the enemies are too bubbly to be considered frightening. However if you got a different artist (say the TP one) working with cel shades, then you can push the bounties on imagination. I once remember seeing a Majora's Mask art piece (Deku Link) being transfered to cel-shade and the only difference was that his colors were bolder. He still had the overall darkness of his older style.
 

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