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Did Skyward Sword Disappoint in Its Delivery?

Did Skyward Sword disappoint in its promised delivery?

  • Not at all, the game was incredible

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, though I can see how others might think so

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, although I still enjoy it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes; I didn't like it a whole lot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Heck yes, the game was a bitter disappointment

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
My point is, reusing a type of terrain is only bad if they do the exact same thing as they did previously (like volcanic rocks falling from the sky in Twilight Princess) or if they do nothing with it (like almost everywhere in Ocarina of Time). There are only a handful of unique terrain types for developers to choose and in Skyward Sword Nintendo got really creative with them and used them to great effect.

I feel like discussing, so I'll address this. I kind of agree with this, but I understand what the other side is saying. Reusing terrain design is not inherently bad if what is done in that terrain is different and ingenuity/creative to an extent. Even if you do things differently, if what is done is expected or feels boring or tedious, then you've got a bad design and really that goes with any design concept. The forest and the volcano are cases of where a good many people felt that the area had really nothing breath taking to give out. The first travel through the woods involved hiking from point A to point B which is mundane. The difference that it brought was that it later aloud you to swim in its entirely flooded area, however the idea of being able to swim in Zelda has been used and it could be seen as another water level or dimmed down version of MM's great bay considering how well the swimming was done in that game. Added that to the concept that the only reason for swimming was a fetch quest with no time limit or sense of alarm and you can leave a good number of people unimpressed. The Volcano again involved hiking from point A to point B which is not very fun. New things that it brought include digging, which has been done before in MC. It also brought about sneaking without having your items, which has been done in WW. So while these ideas from the past were put together, really we've seen all this stuff before. The best argument that can be given is the desert because while Link has traveled through time and operated machinery in the past, for some reason no one ever expects to see these futuristic concepts in a midevil themed game.

Redone themes are fine as long as they bring something along that is both unexpected and fun. In fact, I encourage redone themes because they help stick to the traditions of the game. But when redone themes are used and incorporate things that may not have been used in that terrain before but aren't really new or just not that fun, then you have a problem.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Reusing terrain design is not inherently bad if what is done in that terrain is different and ingenuity/creative to an extent. Even if you do things differently, if what is done is expected or feels boring or tedious, then you've got a bad design and really that goes with any design concept. The forest and the volcano are cases of where a good many people felt that the area had really nothing breath taking to give out.

Barring the water portion - which I liked to some degree - I think Skyward Sword did an excellent job at breathing life into previously visited areas. Older games in the series had areas that weren't even worth revisiting at all; they seemed to die after just visiting them one time and completing whatever there was to do in them... :/

The first travel through the woods involved hiking from point A to point B which is mundane.
Yeah, typical starting location in a Zelda game.. :/

The difference that it brought was that it later aloud you to swim in its entirely flooded area, however the idea of being able to swim in Zelda has been used and it could be seen as another water level or dimmed down version of MM's great bay considering how well the swimming was done in that game. Added that to the concept that the only reason for swimming was a fetch quest with no time limit or sense of alarm and you can leave a good number of people unimpressed.

I agree that the swimming portion felt forced; it was simply a great concept that was executed poorly. It almost felt as though Nintendo needed an excuse to make use and/or show off what swimming would be like with motion controls in a Zelda game (don't bother bringing up TP; it was merely a port, and its motion controls were tacked on). What you lost me on, however, is the idea of swimming being a reused ability... Dunno about everyone else, but I could have sworn that swimming is a basic element of an adventure game. That being said, it is not exactly an idea that should be thrown by the wayside if Nintendo can help it. Although, I could be missing something. Perhaps you should have worded it differently.

The Volcano again involved hiking from point A to point B which is not very fun. New things that it brought include digging, which has been done before in MC. It also brought about sneaking without having your items, which has been done in WW.

I fail to see where you're going in regards to the lack of ingenuity in the Eldin region. You mentioned several ideas/concepts that were not boring and/or overdone, but were actually quite fun, innovative, and creative. For instance, the weapon-less stealth portion... you mention it being done before in The Wind Waker. However, you fail to address the innovative and unique qualities that this "reused" idea brought to the table in SS; there was far more. Not only did Link lose all of his weapons/items, but he also had to endure a multi-tiered climb on a volcanic mountain, while making use of advanced skills that were not present in WW. If anything, SS should be given kudos for expanding on and putting a new spin on the idea to such a degree; essentially giving us a glimpse into what the WW's stealth portion could have been like...

I also would like to address this:

So while these ideas from the past were put together, really we've seen all this stuff before.

You make it sound as though Link is taking a leisurely hike through Hyrule Field in TP. Its as though you blatantly left out the multi-tiered qualities of Eldin Volcano - the lava pits, the slippery slopes, the many impediments, etc. And of course the concept of digging underground has been used once before. What's Nintendo going to do, abandon a great idea, and fail to expand on it? That, to me, would have been a bad idea, especially in the Zelda series, as Nintendo is notorious for building on old concepts in creative and innovative ways. Also, I am sure that digging underground is something that many fans have wanted to see in 3D.

The best argument that can be given is the desert because while Link has traveled through time and operated machinery in the past, for some reason no one ever expects to see these futuristic concepts in a midevil themed game.

Mentioning the time-travel aspect of Zelda as a reused concept is rather weak. The time element and the many forms it may take should be expected in the series. Also, the timeshift stones have been regarded by many as one of the greatest ideas in the series. Some even argue that the concept is among the greatest in all of adventure games. While I wouldn't go so far as to agree on this, I do regard timeshift stones to be the most innovative time-based devices in the series.

Last but not least, the Zelda series is NOT wholly based around medieval times. Don't get me wrong, it features many elements from it, but much of it has been shadowed by newer concepts since the days of the original LoZ. SS is the best example of this, as it features many elements from Eastern concepts. In other words, much of its story content was heavily inspired by Japanese mythos...

Going further... A little known fact is that the concept of futuristic technology being found in an ancient setting was borrowed from the real-world research of mythical cities like Atlantis and Machu Pichu, which have been noted for their advanced technology and architecture. This theme is used in many forms of media to instill a sense of majesty and adventure into the reader/watcher/gamer, as well as appeal to their imaginations. It can also be regarded as one of the greatest forms of irony in the Zelda series, given SS placement in the timeline.

Redone themes are fine as long as they bring something along that is both unexpected and fun. In fact, I encourage redone themes because they help stick to the traditions of the game. But when redone themes are used and incorporate things that may not have been used in that terrain before but aren't really new or just not that fun, then you have a problem.

I'm sorry, what?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
Barring the water portion - which I liked to some degree - I think Skyward Sword did an excellent job at breathing life into previously visited areas. Older games in the series had areas that weren't even worth revisiting at all; they seemed to die after just visiting them one time and completing whatever there was to do in them... :/


Yeah, typical starting location in a Zelda game.. :/



I agree that the swimming portion felt forced; it was simply a great concept that was executed poorly. It almost felt as though Nintendo needed an excuse to make use and/or show off what swimming would be like with motion controls in a Zelda game (don't bother bringing up TP; it was merely a port, and its motion controls were tacked on). What you lost me on, however, is the idea of swimming being a reused ability... Dunno about everyone else, but I could have sworn that swimming is a basic element of an adventure game. That being said, it is not exactly an idea that should be thrown by the wayside if Nintendo can help it. Although, I could be missing something. Perhaps you should have worded it differently.



I fail to see where you're going in regards to the lack of ingenuity in the Eldin region. You mentioned several ideas/concepts that were not boring and/or overdone, but were actually quite fun, innovative, and creative. For instance, the weapon-less stealth portion... you mention it being done before in The Wind Waker. However, you fail to address the innovative and unique qualities that this "reused" idea brought to the table in SS; there was far more. Not only did Link lose all of his weapons/items, but he also had to endure a multi-tiered climb on a volcanic mountain, while making use of advanced skills that were not present in WW. If anything, SS should be given kudos for expanding on and putting a new spin on the idea to such a degree; essentially giving us a glimpse into what the WW's stealth portion could have been like...

I also would like to address this:



You make it sound as though Link is taking a leisurely hike through Hyrule Field in TP. Its as though you blatantly left out the multi-tiered qualities of Eldin Volcano - the lava pits, the slippery slopes, the many impediments, etc. And of course the concept of digging underground has been used once before. What's Nintendo going to do, abandon a great idea, and fail to expand on it? That, to me, would have been a bad idea, especially in the Zelda series, as Nintendo is notorious for building on old concepts in creative and innovative ways. Also, I am sure that digging underground is something that many fans have wanted to see in 3D.



Mentioning the time-travel aspect of Zelda as a reused concept is rather weak. The time element and the many forms it may take should be expected in the series. Also, the timeshift stones have been regarded by many as one of the greatest ideas in the series. Some even argue that the concept is among the greatest in all of adventure games. While I wouldn't go so far as to agree on this, I do regard timeshift stones to be the most innovative time-based devices in the series.

Last but not least, the Zelda series is NOT wholly based around medieval times. Don't get me wrong, it features many elements from it, but much of it has been shadowed by newer concepts since the days of the original LoZ. SS is the best example of this, as it features many elements from Eastern concepts. In other words, much of its story content was heavily inspired by Japanese mythos...

Going further... A little known fact is that the concept of futuristic technology being found in an ancient setting was borrowed from the real-world research of mythical cities like Atlantis and Machu Pichu, which have been noted for their advanced technology and architecture. This theme is used in many forms of media to instill a sense of majesty and adventure into the reader/watcher/gamer, as well as appeal to their imaginations. It can also be regarded as one of the greatest forms of irony in the Zelda series, given SS placement in the timeline.



I'm sorry, what?

After reading this, I feel my thread was misinterpreted. I will do my best re-summarizing. Basically what I said is that the lands of SS did indeed have new ideas, however these ideas either did not feel innovative to a good number of people or have been used in some sense making them feel like old ideas. You mentioned running up a slippery slope of sand. Yes, that was something new, but I myself wouldn't call it innovative. It's not something you wouldn't expect in a Zelda game, just something they haven't done yet. And honestly, I don't feel many Zelda games traverse from point A to point B in their beginnings, but that's a separate discussion. The point was that this activity is not really creative, and in a lot of cases just not fun. This also goes with the ideas that have been reused. The sneaking part had puzzle solving, yes, but many did not find them innovative. If you did, I can't change that. You must've enjoyed it much more than those who didn't. This pretty much applies to all the examples I was giving. Because of how they were done, not many were impressed be they a reused idea or a new one with rather expected results.

And I was using the Lanryu desert as an example to support the argument for the SS overworld not as an example against it. I was saying that the Lanryu desert is the best demonstration of a fun aspect of an overworld because it brought about a concept that, even though it has been done many many times before, people still don't expect it for some reason. Why? I don't know. For some reason we think complex machinery or time traveling in Zelda won't be in there. But Nintendo puts them in there all the time and we are still dazzled. I like to think of it like you said. In a fantasy game, science is the fantasy.

So again I say, redone themes are fine... just make them fun.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
You mentioned running up a slippery slope of sand. Yes, that was something new, but I myself wouldn't call it innovative. It's not something you wouldn't expect in a Zelda game, just something they haven't done yet.

When has any Zelda game had us running up a slope while avoiding rocks being thrown at us by the enemies? I'm pretty sure Skyward Sword was the first one to do anything remotely similar to that.

And honestly, I don't feel many Zelda games traverse from point A to point B in their beginnings, but that's a separate discussion. The point was that this activity is not really creative, and in a lot of cases just not fun.

First off, almost every Zelda opening is most definitely point A to point B, especially in the modern titles. Second, Skyward Sword's Faron Woods were actually quite open and enticing to explore. Even while hunting down the Kikwis (a non-linear portion of the game). It's without a doubt the strongest opening area in Zelda to date.

This also goes with the ideas that have been reused. The sneaking part had puzzle solving, yes, but many did not find them innovative. If you did, I can't change that. You must've enjoyed it much more than those who didn't. This pretty much applies to all the examples I was giving. Because of how they were done, not many were impressed be they a reused idea or a new one with rather expected results.

I've actually seen more people that were impressed than people that weren't. Much more, in fact.

And I was using the Lanryu desert as an example to support the argument for the SS overworld not as an example against it. I was saying that the Lanryu desert is the best demonstration of a fun aspect of an overworld because it brought about a concept that, even though it has been done many many times before, people still don't expect it for some reason. Why? I don't know. For some reason we think complex machinery or time traveling in Zelda won't be in there. But Nintendo puts them in there all the time and we are still dazzled. I like to think of it like you said. In a fantasy game, science is the fantasy.

Timeshift stones have been used before in Zelda? I'd like to know when, because I don't recall.

So again I say, redone themes are fine... just make them fun.

i.e. What Skyward Sword did.
 

PhantomTriforce

I am a Person of Interest
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Location
Ganon's Tower
I voted for "Yes, although I still enjoy it" mainly because the story in Skyward Sword isn't what the story should have been. At all. But I still had lots of fun playing the game with the new Wii Motion + controls.
 

theoathtoorder

“Zinga-dingding!”
Joined
May 10, 2012
Skyward Sword is easily my favorite Zelda game to date. It beat out Majora's Mask, my previous favorite. I loved the art style, Link and Zelda's relationship, storyline, music, gameplay, Fi, Ghirahim, and could go on and on. I thought the sky was fine just the way it was. I liked the fact that you had to go back to certain areas over and over. Reminded me a little of Majora's Mask in that sense. Each Zelda game is special in it's own right. SS just happens to be epic in my opinion.
 

New Link

Link's Reincarnation
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Location
Forest Haven
It is an amazing game and I love so much about it, but it is my least favorite 3D zelda game + it did not surpass OoT. I love a lot about it, I just had my expectations too high.
 

LavaAnon

The Forever Gamer
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Location
Koholint Island
I don't think it was dissapointing at all. The game was gorgeous. The graphics are fantastic, the music is beautiful, the controls and the whole Wii Motion-Plus dealio was awesome! The story was extremely deep, like when it gets torwards the end of the game and listen to the credits music... you have that feeling of great achievment and you have most definately completed a fantastic game.
 

SpiritGerudo

Flamey-o, Hotman!
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Location
Halfway There
Before I played the game, I tried to avoid all spoilers and comments about it so that I could play it from a completely unbiased standpoint, and I can say the game did disappoint me. Somewhat. From what I've seen Skyward Sword is largely referred to as a game with a lot of potential, and I agree with that. There is SO much that they could've done with the game that they didn't, and that made it disappointing. Did I enjoy it? Very much so. Do I think it surpassed Ocarina of Time? Heck no.

(This isn't really what people are talking about but it occurred to me so I'm gonna write it anyway) On the topic of the reuse and repetition of themes or areas, I think Nintendo tried to recreate what I think they pulled off well in Majora's Mask. In MM especially, and even in Ocarina of Time, the areas didn't feel like "levels" to me as many areas in other games in the series had (*COUGH*Twilight Princess*COUGH*). They were just each parts of a world. In Skyward Sword, I think by coming back to areas they were trying to make it seem more like an "area" and less like a "level," but they failed in this. The areas of the game still feel distinctly like levels, which makes doing them boring, as you're just doing a different thing in the exact same environment. There is so little to be gained by going back to a place before you're supposed to, it really turns each area into a level, even if it is returned to later in the game.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
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Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
In Skyward Sword, I think by coming back to areas they were trying to make it seem more like an "area" and less like a "level," but they failed in this. The areas of the game still feel distinctly like levels, which makes doing them boring, as you're just doing a different thing in the exact same environment. There is so little to be gained by going back to a place before you're supposed to, it really turns each area into a level, even if it is returned to later in the game.

You return to areas to unlock previously blocked-off areas. How is that returning to an area just to do something different in the exact same environment?
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
My main gripe of the game is the padding, lack of exploration and the lack of mini games that were actually FUN..fun fun island was to me not fun. the harp game in the Pumpkin place,Made me want to Drown in the water temple. the Bow and arrow game was Meh and the digging game was ok. at least in TP and OoT their was fun mini games like fishing, the shooting galleries and river boat rafting/canoeing with the bow and arrows ( in TP) that to me was fun. I enjoyed the fishing in TP and OoT. but mostly in TP with the Wii-mote. SS to me Failed on this and it did disappointed me.
 
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SpiritGerudo

Flamey-o, Hotman!
Joined
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Location
Halfway There
You return to areas to unlock previously blocked-off areas. How is that returning to an area just to do something different in the exact same environment?

You meet the same types of enemies and natural barriers and use the same items when you return to the area, even if you're actually doing it all on a different map. While I admit the Lanayru Sand Sea was kind of awesome, where you stopped was still desert, still had the sinksand, still required the Gust Bellows. In Eldin, there was still a volcano, still lava, just a different map and different paths. While you went to the lake upon returning to Faron, a large part of the gameplay in that section was going through the same area, the Deep Woods I think it's called, to Skyview Temple again, then proceeding to do almost the exact same dungeon again.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
You meet the same types of enemies and natural barriers and use the same items when you return to the area, even if you're actually doing it all on a different map. While I admit the Lanayru Sand Sea was kind of awesome, where you stopped was still desert, still had the sinksand, still required the Gust Bellows. In Eldin, there was still a volcano, still lava, just a different map and different paths. While you went to the lake upon returning to Faron, a large part of the gameplay in that section was going through the same area, the Deep Woods I think it's called, to Skyview Temple again, then proceeding to do almost the exact same dungeon again.

You meet variations of previously-met enemies that are smarter and tougher. This same thing is done in Metroid, and I've never seen anyone complain about it.
 

SpiritGerudo

Flamey-o, Hotman!
Joined
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Location
Halfway There
You meet variations of previously-met enemies that are smarter and tougher. This same thing is done in Metroid, and I've never seen anyone complain about it.

I guess it's just me then . . . I just hate it when they change stuff slightly, even if that is to make it harder, and it makes up a good portion of the game. What you said about the enemies, I think that's a cool idea for an enemy sometimes, for things like mini- and full bosses, but for regular enemies like the Bokoblins it comes across to me as them just not being creative with enemy design. I mean, if you look at all of Skyward Sword's enemies, roughly 20% or them are Bokoblins, and 50% are any enemy that has a "smarter and tougher" variation. That just seems like too much to me and it added to the rest of the repetitive aspects of Skyward Sword's "levels" to me and made the game more disappointing.
 

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