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Spoiler Did Demise Ruin Ganondorf for Anyone Else?

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Ventus

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Sometimes the fear lives up to the hype, sometimes you had nothing to be afraid of at all.

Mhm, this is how I feel with Demise. He didn't feel like he lived up to all that buildup, what with his dialogue, appearance and subsequent actions. Everyone is talking about fearing this supposed big baddy, everyone says he is a super demon, but he turns out to be a wimp! He gets destroyed with only the Master Sword -- Link needs that and that only to harm him. The Imprisoned might have been a dubious threat, but with Demise I felt nothing, just empty and even hatred for him. If he had more substance and was just pulled off better, he wouldn't have harmed himself or Ganondorf.

sPEAKING of Ganondorf, isn't the Triforce required to hurt him (in conjunction with the Master Sword)? Well, what's the deal with Demise? If Demise is super amazing strong and the strongest of villains thus far, why can he be taken out so easily? After the awesomeness that was Ganondorf, Demise was just a let down. And even if we don't factor in what Ganondorf laid for the pavement, Demise just didn't feel like a compelling villain to me.
 

Random Person

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sPEAKING of Ganondorf, isn't the Triforce required to hurt him (in conjunction with the Master Sword)? Well, what's the deal with Demise? If Demise is super amazing strong and the strongest of villains thus far, why can he be taken out so easily? After the awesomeness that was Ganondorf, Demise was just a let down. And even if we don't factor in what Ganondorf laid for the pavement, Demise just didn't feel like a compelling villain to me.

I completely forgot about the Triforce. Good point.
 

JuicieJ

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Mhm, this is how I feel with Demise. He didn't feel like he lived up to all that buildup, what with his dialogue, appearance and subsequent actions. Everyone is talking about fearing this supposed big baddy, everyone says he is a super demon, but he turns out to be a wimp! He gets destroyed with only the Master Sword -- Link needs that and that only to harm him. The Imprisoned might have been a dubious threat, but with Demise I felt nothing, just empty and even hatred for him. If he had more substance and was just pulled off better, he wouldn't have harmed himself or Ganondorf.

Wait, what? So you're saying that Demise being vulnerable to only the Master Sword makes him weak. I'm sorry, but it's the complete opposite. The Master Sword is the Blade of Evil's Bane. It's the only thing that can harm Demise. That means he's invulnerable to any other kind of attacks. Nothing else can harm him. That makes him one tough cookie. Stronger than Ganon. Stronger than Majora. The strongest foe Zelda's ever had.
 

Random Person

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Wait, what? So you're saying that Demise being vulnerable to only the Master Sword makes him weak. I'm sorry, but it's the complete opposite. The Master Sword is the Blade of Evil's Bane. It's the only thing that can harm Demise. That means he's invulnerable to any other kind of attacks. Nothing else can harm him. That makes him one tough cookie. Stronger than Ganon. Stronger than Majora. The strongest foe Zelda's ever had.

I don't see how that makes him stronger than Ganondorf considering, like Ventus and I said, Ganondorf had to be taken down by many different powers including the master sword. (Light Arrows, Triforces, etc) It's not an "all these things can hurt him" its an "you need all these things or you'll lose"
 

JuicieJ

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I don't see how that makes him stronger than Ganondorf considering, like Ventus and I said, Ganondorf had to be taken down by many different powers including the master sword. (Light Arrows, Triforces, etc)

That makes Ganon weaker. Demise is vulnerable to only the Master Sword. Try to attack him with anything else and it won't even scratch him. How does that make him weak? It doesn't. It makes him ridiculously strong.
 

Ventus

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How does that make him weak?

It makes him weak because, naturally, the Master Sword will go to the Hero. As it is standard arsenal for Link, this effectively makes Demise "just another stalling device". You ONLY need the Master Sword and you can take this "big baddy" out, which makes him a "little baddy" ironically. However, with Ganondorf, you need so much more. You need to be prepared. You can't harm Ganondorf if you can't stun him, so it REQUIRES the Light Arrows. I need to check my sources on this next one, but I do believe you also require a part of the Triforce to harm him (again, check my sources, I could be wrong). And finally you need to be able to seal him with the Master Sword. You need to have many items or else you will not stand a chance against Ganondorf, but you only need one thing, an incredibly easy *will* obtain thing to stand a chance against Demise. This essentially makes Demise weaker than Ganondorf.
 

Random Person

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That makes Ganon weaker. Demise is vulnerable to only the Master Sword. Try to attack him with anything else and it won't even scratch him. How does that make him weak? It doesn't. It makes him ridiculously strong.

Did it say that in the game? Legit question, I don't remember. If this is the ONLY thing that can hurt him, than I wonder how the goddess defeated him in the past...

Anyway, Ganondorf can only be defeated by the combined efforts of the master sword and other elements. (In OoT, WW, and TP). Ganondorf can be hurt by other elements, but can only be defeated by combining those elements with the master sword. If it only takes the master sword to beat Demise but the master sword alone wouldn't be enough for the G-man, it presents an arguement that Ganondorf is more powerful, or atleast more dangerous. You could argue that the other elements are simply required to allow the master sword to make contact with Ganondorf.
 

JuicieJ

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It makes him weak because, naturally, the Master Sword will go to the Hero. As it is standard arsenal for Link, this effectively makes Demise "just another stalling device". You ONLY need the Master Sword and you can take this "big baddy" out, which makes him a "little baddy" ironically. However, with Ganondorf, you need so much more. You need to be prepared. You can't harm Ganondorf if you can't stun him, so it REQUIRES the Light Arrows. I need to check my sources on this next one, but I do believe you also require a part of the Triforce to harm him (again, check my sources, I could be wrong). And finally you need to be able to seal him with the Master Sword. You need to have many items or else you will not stand a chance against Ganondorf, but you only need one thing, an incredibly easy *will* obtain thing to stand a chance against Demise. This essentially makes Demise weaker than Ganondorf.

You're oversimplifying this. With Ganon, yes, you need more items to take him out, but this doesn't require much skill. It's stunning him with Light Arrow and attacking him. With Demise, it's all about skill. You HAVE to have mastered the controls or else he will punish you. You also have to have quick reflexes to not get hit. It's a battle of skill and wits.

Besides, what's so bad about only being vulnerable to the Master Sword? That makes the final battle a sword battle, something the gameplay was all about. You act as if that's bad design. If you think it is, I can assure you it isn't.
 

Ventus

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You're oversimplifying this. With Ganon, yes, you need more items to take him out, but this doesn't require much skill. It's stunning him with Light Arrow and attacking him. With Demise, it's all about skill. You HAVE to have mastered the controls or else he will punish you. You also have to have quick reflexes to not get hit. It's a battle of skill and wits.

Besides, what's so bad about only being vulnerable to the Master Sword? That makes the final battle a sword battle, something the gameplay was all about. You act as if that's bad design. If you think it is, I can assure you it isn't.
You're taking this arsenal thing into the context of gameplay, and I'm talking outside of the bounds of gameplay. And even with gameplay, it is arguable that Ganondorf is harder than Demise. I had an easier time with Demise than I did Ganondorf, Ganon or both. No, this has nothing to do with me being a veteran of the series, Demise was just a cakewalk for me. With Ganondorf, I needed timing. Demise requires more skill. Different venues for different things. But, this is deviating slightly from what I am saying. Ganondorf requires more to defeat him which means, the stakes are raised higher. Demise only requires one thing to defeat him, with another (Triforce) being entirely optional. I'd say that Ganondorf is the stronger of the two just because he requires more to defeat.
 

Random Person

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Besides, what's so bad about only being vulnerable to the Master Sword? That makes the final battle a sword battle, something the gameplay was all about. You act as if that's bad design. If you think it is, I can assure you it isn't.

The initial issue was that Ventus didn't see Demise as a great threat like the game made him out to be (I agree). Being vulnerable to the master sword is not bad, in fact, it means you're a bad guy. But if this is the only weapon required when it alone wouldn't work against a villain that is supposed to be a lesser threat than you supports Ventus' argument.
 

Djinn

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That makes Ganon weaker. Demise is vulnerable to only the Master Sword. Try to attack him with anything else and it won't even scratch him. How does that make him weak? It doesn't. It makes him ridiculously strong.

This one is simple, because the Master Sword alone could defeat Demise, but the Master Sword alone was not enough to defeat Ganondorf. In fact it could be argued that the Master Sword lacks the power to properly defeat Ganondorf because of the reliance on another weapon but it is still perfectly capable of injuring and killing Demise.

These are the Silver Arrows. To give Ganon his last moment, you definitely need them!
When Ganon is stunned, give
him his last moment with a
Silver Arrow!

Even then in later games when the light arrow is needed it is still said to be used to break through the defenses of Ganondorf so that the sword could be used on him.
"And here is a weapon that can penetrate the Evil King's defenses... The power given to the chosen ones... The sacred Arrow of Light!!!"

The sacred light of these arrows can pierce pure evil itself!

Spirits of the light! Wielders of the great power that shines far and wide upon the lands of our world... In my hour of need, grant me the light to banish evil!

In all three instances the sword was not enough to break through Ganondorf's defense to actually harm him. A combination of the two weapons was needed even after the master sword was fully powered up.

However one could argue that just by owning the triforce, Ganondorf had access to an even greater power than Demise ever displayed. But since we have nothing to go on with the ancient past that is still relatively unknown.
 

JuicieJ

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You're taking this arsenal thing into the context of gameplay, and I'm talking outside of the bounds of gameplay. And even with gameplay, it is arguable that Ganondorf is harder than Demise. I had an easier time with Demise than I did Ganondorf, Ganon or both. No, this has nothing to do with me being a veteran of the series, Demise was just a cakewalk for me. With Ganondorf, I needed timing. Demise requires more skill. Different venues for different things. But, this is deviating slightly from what I am saying. Ganondorf requires more to defeat him which means, the stakes are raised higher. Demise only requires one thing to defeat him, with another (Triforce) being entirely optional. I'd say that Ganondorf is the stronger of the two just because he requires more to defeat.

It actually does have to do with your skill level. Demise is the kind of boss where if you go in and know what you're doing, you'll have a pretty easy time with him. If you go in and have no clue as to what to do and flail wildly, you're going to die. No questions asked. It's the ultimate test of what you've learned in the game. You had an easy time with him. I did, too. But many other people have had a very tough time with him. He's not a boss that can be called universally easy as such. He's very well-designed and a great end to a great game.

This one is simple, because the Master Sword alone could defeat Demise, but the Master Sword alone was not enough to defeat Ganondorf. In fact it could be argued that the Master Sword lacks the power to properly defeat Ganondorf because of the reliance on another weapon but it is still perfectly capable of injuring and killing Demise.

Even then in later games when the light arrow is needed it is still said to be used to break through the defenses of Ganondorf so that the sword could be used on him.

In all three instances the sword was not enough to break through Ganondorf's defense to actually harm him. A combination of the two weapons was needed even after the master sword was fully powered up.

However one could argue that just by owning the triforce, Ganondorf had access to an even greater power than Demise ever displayed. But since we have nothing to go on with the ancient past that is still relatively unknown.
But if this is the only weapon required when it alone wouldn't work against a villain that is supposed to be a lesser threat than you supports Ventus' argument.

Well, if you bring Twilight Princess into the mix, the Master Sword is all that was needed against him in his final phase. Against his beast form, only Wolf Link was needed to hurt him, at that. So Demise isn't the only one. But I see what you're saying.

Still, that doesn't make Demise weak.
 

Random Person

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Well, if you bring Twilight Princess into the mix, the Master Sword is all that was needed against him in his final phase. Against his beast form, only Wolf Link was needed to hurt him, at that. So Demise isn't the only one. But I see what you're saying.

In these phases. That means that Ganondorf went through different stages of fighting of which you had to use different weapons. Link wouldn't have made it to the final phase without going through the horse riding phase which required light arrows. If you could skip a phase, then yes, but you can't defeat Ganondorf without defeating all four phases. Meaning that if you only had the Master Sword, you wouldn't have defeated Ganondorf during phase 2 nor phase 3. And if you only had the wolf form, you would have been stuck at phase 1. Essentially saying it is required to have more than the Master Sword to completely defeat the G-man
 

JuicieJ

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In these phases. That means that Ganondorf went through different stages of fighting of which you had to use different weapons. Link wouldn't have made it to the final phase without going through the horse riding phase which required light arrows. If you could skip a phase, then yes, but you can't defeat Ganondorf without defeating all four phases. Meaning that if you only had the Master Sword, you wouldn't have defeated Ganondorf during phase 2 and phase 3. And if you only had the wolf form, you would have been stuck at phase 1. Essentially saying it is required to have more than the Master Sword to completely defeat the G-man

No, the Horse Phase didn't *require* the Light Arrows. They were just something that was used to knock him off of his horse. Gameplay-wise they did. But in reality, no.

I also haven't seen any good reasons to prove that Demise is weak. Even if Ganon is stronger, which is an arguable point, how is Demise not strong?
 
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