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Developing a True Zelda Dungeon

Jusenalky

Plansmith
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
I've become rather inspired (read obsessed) with the concept of levels and dungeons, akin to those commonly found in the Zelda games, and so I've decided to make a project: Build Your Own Zelda Dungeon. However, I need help in regards to properly designing an adequate structure for a dungeon and exploring said dungeon. Could you guys help me?
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
I'm terrible with computers so any designs you get from me would be hand drawn unfortunately, but I would be happy to help. What kind of dungeon are you thinking?
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Fair point, but at the same time i'd imagine if you are a developer you'd have something on the back burner. BUt then again i know nothing of developing.
Eh, I'm quite happy to come up with designs for something that may or may not happen just because I like drawing. not sure if the same applies for computers people.
 

Jusenalky

Plansmith
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
That drawing is absolutely fantastic! I love it!
However, I do believe if I phrased my request more specifically, it would alienate people.
I want to build a truly explorable and interactive Zelda dungeon in the real world, akin to an obstacle course, but more... "meat" to it, I suppose.
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
its talent like this that leads to me crying to sleep every night
That's very kind of you, thank you.
That drawing is absolutely fantastic! I love it!
However, I do believe if I phrased my request more specifically, it would alienate people.
I want to build a truly explorable and interactive Zelda dungeon in the real world, akin to an obstacle course, but more... "meat" to it, I suppose.
Ah, even better, I spent the first part of this year making horse jumps and I have a mechanic friend who would find the idea very interesting. The only problem, of course, is the funding.
 

Jusenalky

Plansmith
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Well, then, disregarding the funding for now, what are the key topics to be addressed for a dungeon like this?
 

Lord_Cathaseigh

Like a sir.
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
I dunno about drawing you anything out, but I can give you a pretty standard list of tips I guess. (Note that not all of these are strictly Zelda-dungeon related tips.)

-Keep in mind that about 4/5 people are right-handed. Righties tend to like to turn left at any kind of fork in the road. However, blocking off their left-side periphal vision (depending on how narrow said passage is) tends to make righties somewhat wary. A lot of people, given the choice, tend to duck off into rooms branching off to the right in said situations. Example: the bombable wall in Dodongo's cavern tends to be the average players priority in exploring before trying to complete the room where you need to light all the torches.

-Resources. Unless trying to do a no-heal run, most players are going to of course get hurt along the way. Where and how you place said resources has a huge impact on how a dungeon plays out. Coming up on a mini-boss room? Place jars/chests whatever full of hearts right before if the player's experienced a long arduous challenge beforehand. Would you rather them be more challenged? Maybe give them the option of killing a whole bunch smaller enemies as well.

The same thing can be said for other resources. No player likes to be low on bombs/ect. so given the chance, they should be able to have somewhere to find said resources without making said way feel repititious.

-Repetition. Unless said repetition tends to play into the dynamic of he dungeon in a very clever way, try to avoid using repetition in dungeon design at all costs. Most players, even given a map, tend to try to explore through a dungeon using their memory. Leaving a room for the 47th time because you keep thinking that it's the one you need to come to is about the most frustrating thing in the world.

-Layers. Having multiple floors to a dungeon can be a good thing and a bad thing. Unless it's a battle your way up kinda dungeon, it isn't really necessary to have 9+ level dungeon. I've never, and I mean never liked those dungeons where you're just pushing blocks downstairs and you don't know where you're going.

-Story. Every dungeon should have it's own kind of story. Not neccesarily one told with words, but rather with the elements of the dungeon. That doesn't always mean that you should learn some great message from it, but you should at least be able to walk away from the dungeon feeling accomplished.

-Dynamic. Every dungeon should have at least one kind of dynamic, some little thing that makes it special. The Water Temple in Twilight Princess had it's revolving staircase and ability to change water flow, the Spirit Temple in OoT had it's two part design and focus on mirrors, and Dragon Roost Island in TWW had it's ability to freeze lava. I much rather prefer when these are kept simple, but at the same time I think the should be really challenging. Along with the miniboss, the boss, the key placement, and the dungeons key item, I think honestly the dynamic(s) is the #1 thing you'll remember about a dungeon after you beat it.

-The enemies. Enemy placement in a dungeon can be tricky, but so long as you keep the dynamic(s) in mind, enemy choice, design, and placement shouldn't really be that hard. You should want something you feel challenged by, something you feel accomplished in beating. Even if it takes 1, 2, 3 or however many tries, so long as you make it memorable (in a good way), players aren't going to regret it as they venture further into the game.

-The boss. How you access the boss in a dungeon is usually the last thing you end up worrying about, seeing as how they're typically set as the final challenge. The dynamic that goes into trying to access him/her is going to be the second to last hoorah of your level design. The boss himself should be challenging, but for some reason I've always found that having to face the same boss over and over again is a pain in the ass. The boss should be set-up with a clever dynamic, as this is going to the finale, and it should always be something memorable. Introducing some last minute story element after you beat it never hurts, by try not to outshine the level you built up for him.

That's about all I got. If you've got any questions feel free to shoot me a PM
 

Jusenalky

Plansmith
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
I dunno about drawing you anything out, but I can give you a pretty standard list of tips I guess. (Note that not all of these are strictly Zelda-dungeon related tips.)

-Keep in mind that about 4/5 people are right-handed. Righties tend to like to turn left at any kind of fork in the road. However, blocking off their left-side periphal vision (depending on how narrow said passage is) tends to make righties somewhat wary. A lot of people, given the choice, tend to duck off into rooms branching off to the right in said situations. Example: the bombable wall in Dodongo's cavern tends to be the average players priority in exploring before trying to complete the room where you need to light all the torches.

-Resources. Unless trying to do a no-heal run, most players are going to of course get hurt along the way. Where and how you place said resources has a huge impact on how a dungeon plays out. Coming up on a mini-boss room? Place jars/chests whatever full of hearts right before if the player's experienced a long arduous challenge beforehand. Would you rather them be more challenged? Maybe give them the option of killing a whole bunch smaller enemies as well.

The same thing can be said for other resources. No player likes to be low on bombs/ect. so given the chance, they should be able to have somewhere to find said resources without making said way feel repititious.

-Repetition. Unless said repetition tends to play into the dynamic of he dungeon in a very clever way, try to avoid using repetition in dungeon design at all costs. Most players, even given a map, tend to try to explore through a dungeon using their memory. Leaving a room for the 47th time because you keep thinking that it's the one you need to come to is about the most frustrating thing in the world.

-Layers. Having multiple floors to a dungeon can be a good thing and a bad thing. Unless it's a battle your way up kinda dungeon, it isn't really necessary to have 9+ level dungeon. I've never, and I mean never liked those dungeons where you're just pushing blocks downstairs and you don't know where you're going.

-Story. Every dungeon should have it's own kind of story. Not neccesarily one told with words, but rather with the elements of the dungeon. That doesn't always mean that you should learn some great message from it, but you should at least be able to walk away from the dungeon feeling accomplished.

-Dynamic. Every dungeon should have at least one kind of dynamic, some little thing that makes it special. The Water Temple in Twilight Princess had it's revolving staircase and ability to change water flow, the Spirit Temple in OoT had it's two part design and focus on mirrors, and Dragon Roost Island in TWW had it's ability to freeze lava. I much rather prefer when these are kept simple, but at the same time I think the should be really challenging. Along with the miniboss, the boss, the key placement, and the dungeons key item, I think honestly the dynamic(s) is the #1 thing you'll remember about a dungeon after you beat it.

-The enemies. Enemy placement in a dungeon can be tricky, but so long as you keep the dynamic(s) in mind, enemy choice, design, and placement shouldn't really be that hard. You should want something you feel challenged by, something you feel accomplished in beating. Even if it takes 1, 2, 3 or however many tries, so long as you make it memorable (in a good way), players aren't going to regret it as they venture further into the game.

-The boss. How you access the boss in a dungeon is usually the last thing you end up worrying about, seeing as how they're typically set as the final challenge. The dynamic that goes into trying to access him/her is going to be the second to last hoorah of your level design. The boss himself should be challenging, but for some reason I've always found that having to face the same boss over and over again is a pain in the ass. The boss should be set-up with a clever dynamic, as this is going to the finale, and it should always be something memorable. Introducing some last minute story element after you beat it never hurts, by try not to outshine the level you built up for him.

That's about all I got. If you've got any questions feel free to shoot me a PM

Oh dear! I... This is supposed to be a real-life Zelda dungeon, and since this is still in the early designing phase, I think this seems a bit too overtly complicated for this early in the development cycle! Perhaps we should stick to more basic concepts?
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Key topics are probably
  • Finding a plot of land so we know what we are working with
  • Theme of the dungeon
  • Non lethal but challenging ideas for traps/ puzzles that fit the theme
  • Distribution of rooms (how many puzzle rooms to fighting rooms to resting rooms)
  • Accounting for physical needs (do we start them with food, water and a basic first aid kit? Will we need to have bathrooms at some point in the dungeon?)
  • Health and safety should also be considered, boring as it might sound
It would probably be easier to make a smaller, denser dungeon with lots of small rooms. I'm thinking if the dungeon is going to have a half way point with an item the the item could be a shovel, the there could be a light based puzzle in the next room which uses mirrors and a laser pointer which tells them where to dig when it's solved?
 

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