Demons, Hatred/Malice, and Ressurection

[Moblinking5000]

Malice(sometimes translated as ''grudge'') is a concept that has existed since ALttP. Could it be the key to explain the ressurection of demons in the series?

In Japan, hatred, malice, and vengefulness are conveniently summed up under one umbrella term, Onnen( 怨念 ). There's an article about that is quite interesting:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2...watch-out-for-yrei-of-all-kinds/#.WR-lCGh97IU

In SS, we have Cursed Bokoblins, dead Bokoblins brought back to life by their Hatred/Grude/Malice, as confirmed by Fi:

''This horrifying Bokoblin reanimates after death. Analysis indicates it fears pure, shiny items and will startle at the sight of a sacred shield.

It is able to reanimate purely through its hatred of this world...and its attachment to outlandish underpants.''

Now, in SS, we see that The Imprisoned constantly revives by himself. Could this be a result of his Malice, like in the example above? This would also explain how Ganon sometimes returns without explanation, like how he does prior to ALBW, as well as prior to Zelda 1.

Now, while on the subject, In OoT we see a pool of what appears to be lava underneath Ganon's Castle. However, in the 3DS version, it looks quite different: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda05/Walkthrough/14/041.jpg

Could this be a retcon/clarification? In OoT3D, what was once seemingly lava seems to be similar to Malice in colour and texture. It's almost as if Ganondorf's Malice is growing.

Feel free to add your thoughts!

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

this is interesting... I didn't know the tidbit about japanese folklore. I wouldn't specifically say the Malice is responsible for Ganon's resurrection as opposed to general malice, but it makes a lot of sense either way.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I feel like the attention to detail on Malice is Nintendo's retcon to tie Ganon to Demise. In the Japanese dialogue of Skyward Sword Demise doesn't form some curse on the spot with his dying breath, instead he is invoking or reminding Link of natural cycle that has always existed:

"My hatred... The curse of the Demon Tribe... They shall continously go on reincarnating until the end of all times.

Do not forget it! I shall repeat it!!

You people shall... You people who possess the blood of the Goddess and the soul of hero shall... forever be unable to escape from this curse!

This hatred and grudge... Its evolution shall forever painfully wander across this blood-stained "Dark Sea" along with you lowlifes forever!!” - Demise

The curse of the Demon Tribe is already a thing apparently, and I believe this is why Fi says Demise conquered time during the final battle, because of this curse that is already in place.

I think Ganon is really the only reciepiant of the Malice, or the concentrated form of the curse, and that ties Ganon to other monsters.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I think Ganon is really the only reciepiant of the Malice, or the concentrated form of the curse, and that ties Ganon to other monsters.

Not sure If I agree with that; Vaati during the final battle of TMC, for example, manages to be a threat without a body and his mind becomes consumed with destruction, which is not dissimilar to Ganon in BotW, who became Calamity Ganon as a result of his descent into Malice according to Rhoam. Vaati also seems to revive by himself inbetween TMC and the backstory to FSGBA, like Demise/the Imprisoned did. I would wager that Malice is something that exists to some extent in all demons, not just Ganon.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Not sure If I agree with that; Vaati during the final battle of TMC, for example, manages to be a threat without a body and his mind becomes consumed with destruction, which is not dissimilar to Ganon in BotW, who became Calamity Ganon as a result of his descent into Malice according to Rhoam. Vaati also seems to revive by himself inbetween TMC and the backstory to FSGBA, like Demise/the Imprisoned did. I would wager that Malice is something that exists to some extent in all demons, not just Ganon.

My issue with Vaati, and The Minish Cap and Fours Swords games as a whole, is the fact that they are so self-contained. They have nothing to do with the Triforce, unless we theorize the Light Force is the Triforce, the Picori Blade isn't the Master Sword as far as we know, so it has no ties to the rest of the staples of Zelda lore. Supposedly the stipulations of the Hate Curse are to have a lust for the Triforce, and hatred for the gods.

 

[Darth Kenobi]

My issue with Vaati, and The Minish Cap and Fours Swords games as a whole, is the fact that they are so self-contained. They have nothing to do with the Triforce, unless we theorize the Light Force is the Triforce, the Picori Blade isn't the Master Sword as far as we know, so it has no ties to the rest of the staples of Zelda lore. Supposedly the stipulations of the Hate Curse are to have a lust for the Triforce, and hatred for the gods.

What about the demon we see at the beginning of the mimish cap on the little into about the legend of the hero of man could that pig like creature be. Ganon

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

What about the demon we see at the beginning of the mimish cap on the little into about the legend of the hero of man could that pig like creature be. Ganon

It can't be Ganon because canonically his first appearence is Ocarina of Time, and The Minish Cap takes place many years before OoT.

 

[Darth Kenobi]

It can't be Ganon because canonically his first appearence is Ocarina of Time, and The Minish Cap takes place many years before OoT.

but It a pig like creature only pig like creature i know in zelda is ganon

 

[Moblinking5000]

My issue with Vaati, and The Minish Cap and Fours Swords games as a whole, is the fact that they are so self-contained. They have nothing to do with the Triforce, unless we theorize the Light Force is the Triforce, the Picori Blade isn't the Master Sword as far as we know, so it has no ties to the rest of the staples of Zelda lore. Supposedly the stipulations of the Hate Curse are to have a lust for the Triforce, and hatred for the gods.

IIRC, Demise doesn't mention the curse as having to do with the Triforce specifically. Ganon II doesn't even seem to know about the Triforce. Would you say he's a part of it? Or just the Ganon that we see in all other games?

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

IIRC, Demise doesn't mention the curse as having to do with the Triforce specifically. Ganon II doesn't even seem to know about the Triforce. Would you say he's a part of it? Or just the Ganon that we see in all other games?

I'd say the reincarnated Ganon might not be part of the curse, but it's a tricky area.

 

[Uwu_Oocoo2]

Demise never said that his curse would return as a person, or a reincarnation of himself. What he said was:

Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end!

He specially says that his hate would return, not him. Ganon is just one of the vessels for this evil power. The Goddess Hylia even tells us in BotW that the malice in Hyrule is caused by Ganon, saying:

However, the dreaded Malice unleashed by Calamity Ganon has possessed its body and reduced it to this state

So basically, Ganon for whatever reason has an overflow of this curse-energy, covering Hyrule in mario-sunshine style malice goop and being possessed by it. This overflow is affecting things other than the recipient of the curse, such as the guardians and divine beasts. The Zelda Encylopedia tells us about darkness on page 98:

Beyond those who willingly serve evil are those corrupted by it. These may be animals or plants, or even inorganic objects manipulated in some way by darkness.

By this point the effects of Demise's curse have been amplified to the point where Ganon can't even control them himself. Page 79 of Creating a Champion tells us that:

When Link gains the upper hand in battle, it loses its tenuous control of the pure malice within and transforms into a rampaging beast. The pink and purple tar-like malice that appears all over Hyrule was designed first and, based on that idea, I decided to make Ganon's entire body into a monster made of hatred and malice incarnate

The word tenuous means "weak or unconvincing". We see similar occurrences on a much smaller scale when Vaati obtains the Light Force and becomes Vaati’s wrath, or how Bellum gains power by consuming Light Force. While we don'y know much about the Light Force, if it's a power of the Tri Force, Ganondorf's possession of the triforce of power could be amplifying the effects somehow.

Theres more details on this subject, such as occurences on AoC i'm not going into and how Ganondorf's "wicked heart" transformed the Sacred realm into the Dark World. I do believe that there are other sources of malice in Hyrule, such as the hatred within people, but that Ganon contains the central power of it, Demise's hatred specifically.