Darker Than MM?!

[Zemen]

I think we have all seen the posts about how this game is supposed to be darker than MM. I think that's rediculous. We don't know a whole lot about the actual story of this game except that there is a Demon King that must be stopped. I can understand the idea of Zelda dying being dark, but they seem to make it work to the point where it's like she's not even dead, and at the same time we are not 100% sure that she really is dead. It could be explained in game by just her soul beign seperate from her body (without her actually dying).

MM had SO MANY dark things to it. There was this whole dimension that was doomed to destruction and that caused the people to go through many personality changes. We see people actually giving up on a chance at life and they are ready to embrace death. That is true darkness. I have yet to see anything from ST be NEARLY as dark as ANYTHING from MM.

Thoughts?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I 100% agree with you Zemen. There's no way that, from what we've seen, we can possibly come to the conclusion that ST will be darker than MM.

First and foremost, the graphic style. This game is once again featuring Toon Link, along with the bright and happy style that accompanied both Toon Link games before it. There is NO way that this style could hope to overcome the OoT/MM style in terms of darkness. While the MM graphics don't exactly look beautiful these days, I'd like for someone to find something more intimidating and scary than the Termina moon in one of the Toon Link games. It's not going to happen, sorry.

Next, MM's plot was completely centered on one thing: Massive amounts of DEATH. If you failed, everything would die. End of story. On top of that, you have that moon galring down on you the whole time reminding you, and the clock is always ticking to remind you even more. What does ST have so far? Zelda just turns into a ghost, without any seemingly real "death scene". Once again, nowhere close to MM.

This is a cel-shaded game people. The whole point of it is to make sure that all audiences like it. It's not like TP where it tries to appeal to the older more mature crowd. A cel-shaded game will never be darker than the others because that's not thier purpose.

 

[Megamannt125]

You underestimate Toon Link, just look how deep and emotional Wind Waker was, maybe not darker than MM, but having dark elements isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

Hmm... well I too believe that STT won't be in the same league of darkness as MM (mostly because so many people are ready to face death in MM) and there's no doubt in my mind that ST will be the darkest Toon Zelda out there.

And like Megamannt said too many people underestimate the deepness and emotion the Toon Zeldas (mainly WW) possess. Just looking at the cutscene where Oshus reveals the whole story of Bellum and the phantoms proves my point. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Zemen]

You underestimate Toon Link, just look how deep and emotional Wind Waker was, maybe not darker than MM, but having dark elements isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

I completely agree that the idea of having a dark, toon Link game isn't impossible but every mentioning I've seen of how dark this game is supposed to be says that it's going to be darker than MM. Based on what we've seen, there is no way anyone could come to that conclusion already.

 

[Shadsie]

I 100% agree with you Zemen. There's no way that, from what we've seen, we can possibly come to the conclusion that ST will be darker than MM.

First and foremost, the graphic style. This game is once again featuring Toon Link, along with the bright and happy style that accompanied both Toon Link games before it. There is NO way that this style could hope to overcome the OoT/MM style in terms of darkness. While the MM graphics don't exactly look beautiful these days, I'd like for someone to find something more intimidating and scary than the Termina moon in one of the Toon Link games. It's not going to happen, sorry.

Next, MM's plot was completely centered on one thing: Massive amounts of DEATH. If you failed, everything would die. End of story. On top of that, you have that moon galring down on you the whole time reminding you, and the clock is always ticking to remind you even more. What does ST have so far? Zelda just turns into a ghost, without any seemingly real "death scene". Once again, nowhere close to MM.

This is a cel-shaded game people. The whole point of it is to make sure that all audiences like it. It's not like TP where it tries to appeal to the older more mature crowd. A cel-shaded game will never be darker than the others because that's not thier purpose.

I don't know. There is something to be said for the concept of dissonance.

You know what I mean, dissonance - it's how in a movie or series, you have dark, nasty things going on, but it's set to a really happy, upbeat song, or everything is brightly colored and seemingly innocent. It's like watching a Stephen King miniseries where this beloved children's nursery rhyme keeps popping up, or like watching an episode of "Elfen Lied" (bloody, dark anime) until you get to the happy J-pop love song that's the ending credits theme.

Cute can make something that much darker, that much more wrong.

While I love Twilight Princess to death, one of the reasons why I consider Majora's Mask to be a darker game is the fact that, unlike TP, it wasn't "shaded in grit," but but had a lot of bright colors and comedic characters. With the end of the world looming, the "bright" made everything that much more creepy.

So, we'll see. I doubt Spirit Tracks will be darker than MM. I think, for a Zelda game to retain a wide audience, it's going to be *hard* if not impossible to make one that's darker than MM, but, who knows? I wouldn't discount it based purely on visual style - for a "cute" visual style might serve to underline something darker or be a thin veneer of "bright" that just makes everything that much more unsettling.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

You underestimate Toon Link, just look how deep and emotional Wind Waker was, maybe not darker than MM, but having dark elements isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Not really. This isn't about being "deep" or "emotional" (I found WW to be neither actually). It's about darkness. Pure darkness, hence the name of the thread. Whether it's emotional or not is irrelevant to the current discussion. WW never presented darkness that could even hope to compare with MM, and the same was with PH. Why should ST hope to buck the trend? What we've seen so far supports what I say: That it can't even hope to compare with MM. That's the answer to the thread really, with nothing else. Sure, it might be darker than previous Toon Link games, but that, as I said, is irrelevant.

 

[elliotstriforce]

well zelda basicly dies of course its darker than mm but it is also darker than tp and it's a toon game!

 

[Shnappy]

Zelda dying doesn't automatically make this game the darkest game ever. Plenty people die in MM. The Deku, Goron, and Zora masks are forged from the souls of people that have died, such as Mikau and Darmani. And MM deals with the apocalypse, the idea of everyone dying because of the moon crashing into the earth. There's no way that this game is going to be darker than MM. As stated before, it's not impossible for a game like this to be darker, but I still think that the cartoon-graphics make it seem a lot less dark, making it seem near impossible for the game to actually be that "dark". The "Demon King" isn't going to be any more evil a villain than Ganon/dorf, Majora, or any other Zelda game's villain. They all want to take over the world, right? I just think it seems really out of reach for this game to be that dark, or even come close.

 

[Raven]

Definitely not darker... sorry i just think that since the 64 bit era that Zelda games have lost that touch of darkness that OoT and MM had. I mean the crudeness lent the games an almost mid-evil aspect unseen in 2d games and the newer, kid friendly games like WW, PH, (and TP to a degree) and now ST.

Nintendo has adopted a kind of policy to keep their games appealing for both young and old audiences. but before they decided on that course of action their was OoT with its graveyard spookiness, dark kakariko well and the blood stained shadow temple. MM was beautiful for it's impending doom and it's end of existence story line, with only three days to save it all you cant help but fell almost... helpless. and that feeling lends even more dark aspects to the game.

ST will be good, but not 64 bit good. I believe that it will be some time before we see another masterpiece like MM but I can respect ST's plot, and can even say that i think it will be a darker game than PH. but so far nothing tops MM.

 

[Zemen]

Also, keep in mind that the creators said that another game like MM is probably never going to happen because that had a lot of freedom with MM that they didn't have and won't have for the other games and upcoming games.

 

[zeldatwilight]

I really dont think that it will be a Dark Dark game. By saying that, I mean that there wont be a plot that sucks you into the story right away, like MM did and you turned into a Deku and learned about Skull Kid right away. I think that ST will take it a step slower than MM. I think that this game will be a brighter game due to the Spirit Pipes, which seems to be a very calm, and peaceful item. The one thing that I can see by being dark in this game is the fact that Zelda supposedly dies in the game, and is taking form as a Phantom. Other than that, I think it will be a very bright, and calm game.