• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Breath of the Wild Dark or Light? Maybe Humor?

Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Location
Yes
Gender
Male
Mmmm yes. And Shadow the Hedgehog is way "darker" than Twilight Princess. Edgy =/= Dark.
TP tries to be the "dark" game, but it fails in giving that feeling to most players.
Which is why a middleground is needed. You need light to compliment the dark. It makes the lighter parts that much better, and the scary parts much darker. This is the reason why OoT is way darker than TP could have ever hoped to achieve.

You're certainly right, edginess does not equal darkness. So explain how TP is "edgy." Please, do. This is why I sometimes feel people don't actually listen to the arguments of those they disagree with, because not a single point I made supported TP being "edgy" over being a substantially emotional game with tragic undertones-- in fact, I argued against that-- yet you still seemed very happy to make such a claim as though it somehow nullified my entire post. How?


Darkness is not a "feeling" that you derive from a mood. Something may be "scary", but not dark, not in any substantial way. Darkness isn't horror, or terror. Darkness isn't a drug you turn to for cheap claustrophobia or grimness. You can't see it with your naked eye; it's much more universal than that.

True darkness is scientific. It carries truth and relevance even after you've turned the console off, or closed the book. It can't be cancelled out with lightness or humor, because it's always there, lingering. It's imbedded objectively in the themes and the structure of a work, and it takes careful analysis and understanding to truly extract. OoT lacks this; TP has it in abundance.

OoT is emotional, yes. It's occasionally depressing and even horrifying, and it carries themes of dissolusionment and redemption; but at its heart, it's a coming of age story, about a young boy who goes off on an adventure and experiences how wondrous, and very often heartbreaking, the world is, and that's what makes it ultimately a light game.

TP is different. As a more sophisticated piece of literature, it's focus isn't primarily on Link, but on Midna (as well as many other outlets), and her story is not a happy, or even very uplifting one. The story of her suffering at the hands of Zant, which never comes to any resolution other than her eventual resolve to protect the world(s) at any cost; the story of her people, meant to wither away into oblivion for their sins, and their eventual redemption due to Midna's sacrifice; Zant's weak and greedy soul, his manipulation by his "god", and his eventual descent into utter madness; the solemn and terrible duty of leadership uptaken by Zelda, Rutela, and Ralis, all who suffer dearly for their responsibilities; the struggle and resolve of Renado, Ilia, Colin, and others in the face of adversity, and even death... All these, while inspiring, are ultimately illustrative of heavy and truly dark vision of reality.
 
Joined
May 7, 2015
Why does it have to be one or the other?

As far as I'm concerned, you win the thread.

Most of the games go through a range of emotions, depending on the mood of a scene. There are both dark and light emotions in life. People are typically not stuck in one or the other. We deal with both. This is the big deal about LoZ being a form of second-person storytelling: They have to give you something to feel. Even Majora's Mask, which radiated sadness everywhere you went, slapped you with silliness at the most unexpected times, treating you to a good belly laugh right up to the end.

Now, I'd argue that we've really only seen the games get emotional since Link's Awakening. There's adventurous stuff in Link to the Past, but nothing that really tugs at your heartstrings one way or another. And yet, the comic they released for LTTP reminds me heavily of how most of the 3D games are now. Emotions all over the place, everything from sad to silly, a bit of courtly love in which the princess must eventually say goodbye. I suspect this comic heavily influenced Ocarina of Time and stories beyond.
 

VeryCrazy

Escape if you can...
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Location
a place you don't want to know...
Gender
Maybe...
You're certainly right, edginess does not equal darkness. So explain how TP is "edgy." Please, do. This is why I sometimes feel people don't actually listen to the arguments of those they disagree with, because not a single point I made supported TP being "edgy" over being a substantially emotional game with tragic undertones-- in fact, I argued against that-- yet you still seemed very happy to make such a claim as though it somehow nullified my entire post. How?


Darkness is not a "feeling" that you derive from a mood. Something may be "scary", but not dark, not in any substantial way. Darkness isn't horror, or terror. Darkness isn't a drug you turn to for cheap claustrophobia or grimness. You can't see it with your naked eye; it's much more universal than that.

True darkness is scientific. It carries truth and relevance even after you've turned the console off, or closed the book. It can't be cancelled out with lightness or humor, because it's always there, lingering. It's imbedded objectively in the themes and the structure of a work, and it takes careful analysis and understanding to truly extract. OoT lacks this; TP has it in abundance.

OoT is emotional, yes. It's occasionally depressing and even horrifying, and it carries themes of dissolusionment and redemption; but at its heart, it's a coming of age story, about a young boy who goes off on an adventure and experiences how wondrous, and very often heartbreaking, the world is, and that's what makes it ultimately a light game.

TP is different. As a more sophisticated piece of literature, it's focus isn't primarily on Link, but on Midna (as well as many other outlets), and her story is not a happy, or even very uplifting one. The story of her suffering at the hands of Zant, which never comes to any resolution other than her eventual resolve to protect the world(s) at any cost; the story of her people, meant to wither away into oblivion for their sins, and their eventual redemption due to Midna's sacrifice; Zant's weak and greedy soul, his manipulation by his "god", and his eventual descent into utter madness; the solemn and terrible duty of leadership uptaken by Zelda, Rutela, and Ralis, all who suffer dearly for their responsibilities; the struggle and resolve of Renado, Ilia, Colin, and others in the face of adversity, and even death... All these, while inspiring, are ultimately illustrative of heavy and truly dark vision of reality.

Twilight Princess is like the emo of the Zelda series. And, yeah, it does seem like it's trying to be edgy. I don't hate it but I think its a lot more shallow than Ocarina of Time, a game where a young boy experiences the reality of the world outside the isolated little village of his childhood and how it can hold sad and sometimes horrifying secrets.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Location
Yes
Gender
Male
Twilight Princess is like the emo of the Zelda series. And, yeah, it does seem like it's trying to be edgy. I don't hate it but I think its a lot more shallow than Ocarina of Time, a game where a young boy experiences the reality of the world outside the isolated little village of his childhood and how it can hold sad and sometimes horrifying secrets.

In that case, I encourage you to delve deeper. What's more immediate is often more apparent; and OoT, as a simpler narrative, may speak to you on a deeper level because TP's heart, more complex in structure, character, and theme, is more difficult to extract.

Really thorougly analyzing a game like this can be daunting, but also a lot of fun; look into things like plot structure, internal conflict, and especially religious imagery when looking at TP, and hopefully you'll come to realize just how elegant (and dark) a narrative TP has.
 

Kyru

WOAHHHH!
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Graphically, it looks most similar to SS which was super duper light. Now lets get over the fact all games have their individual emotional roller coasters, and look at the fact we cant tell but I'm guessing that it will be light like SS since their graphic look is similar.
 

VeryCrazy

Escape if you can...
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Location
a place you don't want to know...
Gender
Maybe...
In that case, I encourage you to delve deeper. What's more immediate is often more apparent; and OoT, as a simpler narrative, may speak to you on a deeper level because TP's heart, more complex in structure, character, and theme, is more difficult to extract.

Really thorougly analyzing a game like this can be daunting, but also a lot of fun; look into things like plot structure, internal conflict, and especially religious imagery when looking at TP, and hopefully you'll come to realize just how elegant (and dark) a narrative TP has.

Heheh... Well remember, this is just my opinion. In fact, I love delving deep into the stories of Zelda games. It's part of the reason I play them. I just couldn't find anything that was thought provoking or truly dark in Twilight Princess. I don't doubt that it's a good game, though.
 
Joined
May 7, 2015
In some ways, TP seems to act like it's trying to be a kid-friendly silent hill. However the game itself is pretty light-hearted. That particular Link seems to be a pretty cheerful guy overall.

There are some dark things that happen. Lanayru tormenting Link with images of him and Ilia trying to kill each other over the triforce comes to mind. The lesson seems to be overkill however, since it's more Midna seeking the fused shadow than Link. (And she, being the twilight princess, has every right to it.) Zelda's sacrifice was a pretty moody situation, but then she was deus exed back to life.

Overall, though, it never gets anywhere near the emotions of grief and despair in Majora's Mask, or the guilt of OOT. TP Link's carrot, or goal for adventuring, is mainly saving Ilia and the other villagers. He's out to protect what he already has, not to fix past mistakes.

I mean, don't get me wrong, TP is one of my favorites and I am not putting it down. It's just that I can see why people would consider OOT to have a darker undertone in its story.
 

VeryCrazy

Escape if you can...
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Location
a place you don't want to know...
Gender
Maybe...
I think, if there is one thing, in my opinion, that was really smart about Twilight Princess, it's the idea that the twilight is encroaching on these peaceful little towns. If they could bring back a similar thing to that in a future Zelda game, I would be pretty excited. As long as the did it way better than in Twilight Princess...
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Location
Yes
Gender
Male
Overall, though, it never gets anywhere near the emotions of grief and despair in Majora's Mask, or the guilt of OOT. TP Link's carrot, or goal for adventuring, is mainly saving Ilia and the other villagers. He's out to protect what he already has, not to fix past mistakes.

This may be the only game in the series where you shouldn't confuse Link for the sole protagonist. Much of the internal conflict we see arises from Midna, whose many outlets-- the vivid parallels between her and Zelda as flawed rulers, her humbling victimization by Zant and her consequential vow for revenge, her selfish outlook that eventually branches out into a solemn resolve to defend the world that culminates in her sacrifice-- contribute to an altogether tragic and very personal narrative.

I'd also like to point out, although it's partly unrelated, that Link's goal for adventuring may begin as a simple quest to save the children of Ordon, but it eventually evolves into the far more grave and dramatic calling to defeat Zant and save the entirety of Hyrule, if not the world-- all part of his coming to fruition as a true hero.
 
Joined
May 7, 2015
This may be the only game in the series where you shouldn't confuse Link for the sole protagonist. Much of the internal conflict we see arises from Midna, whose many outlets-- the vivid parallels between her and Zelda as flawed rulers, her humbling victimization by Zant and her consequential vow for revenge, her selfish outlook that eventually branches out into a solemn resolve to defend the world that culminates in her sacrifice-- contribute to an altogether tragic and very personal narrative.

Midna may be a girl caught in a play for power....but doesn't that happen in every Zelda game in some way or other?

I liked the character, her growth was nice, but I don't consider positive changes in a person's personality to be a particularly "dark" aspect of a story. Rather, it's similar to other quest-character plots we've seen, such as Ravio, Linebeck, Tatl, etc.

Keep in mind I do not say that to put it down.


I'd also like to point out, although it's partly unrelated, that Link's goal for adventuring may begin as a simple quest to save the children of Ordon, but it eventually evolves into the far more grave and dramatic calling to defeat Zant and save the entirety of Hyrule, if not the world-- all part of his coming to fruition as a true hero.

While his story does naturally progress into that, you have to explore the character from his shoes. What's he thinking? What's his motive, his objective? What is his carrot for adventuring?

TP Link was called to action because the action got too close to home. This continued for the vast majority of the game. Would he like to see the job done? YES. Because it protects what is precious to him. Logically there'd be no sense in just letting Zant run loose simply because his own objectives were fulfilled, for either Hyrule or himself. In the end, Midna did the same thing by breaking the mirror. She was protecting her home, regardless of what it meant to her on a personal level.

We saw a similar thing in Wind Waker. Link set out to save his sister. He stayed to take care of the looming threat.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom