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Could You Consider a Game Great if It Weren't Fun?

Joined
Oct 26, 2012
I recently started playing Paper Mario: Sticker Star and, while I was initially very impressed by the graphics, the much-improved quality of dialogue, and the unique concepts, now five hours into the game, I've found that I'm not necessarily having fun as much as I feel like I'm completing a chore.

It's very hard to create a game with an X-factor--something that its fans will look forward playing and a story into which the players can't wait to delve deeper. That said, could you appreciate the effort and successful applications of every other attribute of a game enough to call it a masterpiece despite its low entertainment-value?
 
I've always believed appreciation of an interactive medium and personal enjoyment to be mutually exclusive. I've done so on this forum before as well. In September I created a thread titled Skyward Sword Refined Zelda. Skyward Sword stands as my least favorite console Zelda installment but I recognize the worthwhile minor additions it implemented and would like for them to return.

If a game is generally well received, I will acknowledge it as such and if the title wasn't on my radar before likely purchase it. Due to videogames being driven by player involvement, however, fun is the most compelling reason to play. No work of art can be fully acknowledged if the beholder doesn't appreciate it. I'm not very skilled at survival horror games like Resident Evil nor do I find the slow progression entertaining, however, the atmosphere is among the best in gaming and sufficient for me to peg it as "great". That said, I stray away from it because I feel as though it would be a waste of money if I had to force myself to sit down and play.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Yes, Just because I didn't enjoy myself playing a game doesn't mean it's bad overall. It can have a great story, gameplay, music etc. But I just won't have fun playing it. Often happens for me when I play other genres, For instance I have never liked and probably never will like sport games like FIFA or Real Time Strategy games like Starcraft. The games can be very well designed but I just won't have fun playing them, But I can't say they are overall bad games because most games are designed for a specific group of people and not everyone, so can't take into account everybody's playing experience. That's when we look at what group the game was aimed for, how the mechanics worked out for that group and if they enjoyed it.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
If a game isn't fun then I will not consider it great. At their core games are made for entertainment and if one does not entertain me then nothing else really matters. They can be a technical marvel, have a thrilling score, feature beautiful art or even have gameplay mechanics that are totally unique and well utilised but if I did not enjoy playing it none of that really matters because ultimately they failed to achieve the main purpose of a video game.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Location
'Murica
No game can be great if it isn't fun.

Visual Novels are the only genre that may be applied to this, but even then, you don't have to be actively playing a game for it to be fun. Series like Ace Attorney and Zero Escape rely on the story and deduction for fun.
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
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While I could appreciate a game for it's graphics, dialogue, music and of course unique concepts , I don't believe I could consider it great. I think I know the feeling you are talking of, you play the game yet when you come off it you can't help but feel it may of been perhaps just addition or something else that kept you playing rather than having fun. I think Cfrock pointed it out best, we buy games to have fun at the end of the day. (To be honest I buy games and let them collect dust while marveling at my collection, but more on that another day ;p) Often it's said video games are a waste of time, and to be honest you can say they are like many things, but I'd much rather say "that maybe true, but hey they sure are fun". A great game to me would have to at least touch all the sweet spots, that includes fun.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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If a game is unfun, it has failed to serve its purpose as entertainment in my opinion. If I'm not genuinely entertained by something, I won't note it as great. Now, some of the individual parts of the game (examples being orchestrated music, revolutionized turnbased combat, et cetera) may be great, but the game definitely needs to be fun before it can be considered a masterpiece to me.

Entertainment needs to be engaging, or else it won't be good entertainment!
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
Fun isn't the only thing games are meant to deliver. I used to think that it was, and for the vast majority of games out there that still remains true, but I no longer think that's the only thing games are good at anymore. There are a myriad of other values that can be used to engage the player other than fun.

Most genres are still firmly stuck in the fun mindset. Platformers are meant for fun, if I'm not enjoying myself as a giant ape smashing through the forest then you've failed to engage me. For most genres fun is how they engage the player, and it still works. I'm not one to try and force other types of engagement onto others if it isn't what they want. Most people play games to relax and unwind after a hard day's work, and I get that.

Still, there's so much more out there. Games have the potential to really influence the player and change their mindset without being necessarily fun. Take Spec Ops: The Line; that game was not fun to play at all, the controls were pretty bad compared to other games of the genre, but it forced players to confront their inner demons and question why they just did all that they did in the game. It was not fun, but it was profound.

There may be other games like Spec Ops in other genres as well, but I tend to find this other type of engagement more in visual novels. Some may not even call them real games, and I think I know where they're coming from. The main means of engagement of visual novels is usually not fun, because most of the time you're just clicking a button to make the next bit of dialogue come up. That's not a fun means of interactivity. You're there to get your story and character development on, even with other games like Professor Layton and Ace Attorney which have puzzles and investigations and whatnot as well. There are moments of comedy and fun, to be sure, but that's not the reason we're there, is it?

My main example of a game which I consider great without being fun is Katawa Shoujo. Now, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who's actually played it, but I can tell you from personal experience that this is a profound game. I was so wrapped up in the earnest and heartfelt story being told that I wasn't aware that I wasn't having 'fun' at it, rather that I was enjoying the experience. Later on it gets really hard to progress onward, not because of some mechanical difficulty but because what happens is so heart-rending that you almost don't want to know what happens next. Several times I had to actually stop and think about the situations at hand for a long time because I didn't know what to do. At the end of it all, I can say that this game has impacted my life, not only in its emotional impact but also in the life lessons I have taken away from it.

So, to wrap it up, games are mostly fun... but sometimes they can be so much more.
 
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Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Well... the whole point of a Video game is to have fun, so a video game without fun is kinda missing the point. I've never completed a game without having fun and I don't think I will ever will. A game is not a game without fun, leaving that main factor out will not make it a great game and no one would probably play it.
 
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Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
If a game isn't fun then I will not consider it great. At their core games are made for entertainment and if one does not entertain me then nothing else really matters. They can be a technical marvel, have a thrilling score, feature beautiful art or even have gameplay mechanics that are totally unique and well utilised but if I did not enjoy playing it none of that really matters because ultimately they failed to achieve the main purpose of a video game.

So the main purpose of a video game is to satisfy you?
 

Castle

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I suppose the answer to this question depends on many factors. For instance, what one person might find fun another might find dull, frustrating, or trivial. I find the Fire Emblem games to be like this. I don't particularly like them, personally, but I don't have any reason to dislike them either. The way they play is just not appealing to me personally but I know it appeals greatly to others who enjoy it immensely. I feel the same way about the rock group The Beatles. I don't dislike their music but I find many other rock groups to be twice and again as good as anything I have ever heard the Beatles play and I recognize that The Beatles contributed great innovations to the rock n' roll genre that I admire and respect them for. The Beatles are a great rock n' roll group even if I don't personally enjoy their songs as much as I do others.

Some aspects of a game might be great and others may not. For instance, a game might play exceptionally well but have a story that's so bad it's better off not even being there. Or the converse, perhaps the story is exceptional but the game plays poorly. In the latter case, I cannot forgive a video game for not playing well. A game must play well or it is not a good game. Take all the bad game out and you get what amounts to a good movie. I have played many video games that I've figured would have been better off as feature films rather than a game.

Another factor to consider is time. Many games were great in their day. Some can still be considered exceptional twenty years later, others start to feel antiquated. Many would argue that Ocarina of Time still plays as good today as it did over a decade ago. Other games, such as Fallout and Myst, which were met with considerable acclaim and mass market appeal in their day, appear antiquated today. What was good then is not necessarily good now. But can such experiences still be considered great? If they contributed greatly then I say that time does not diminish their greatness.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
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This is a much longer argument about the core aesthetics of a medium and the nature of art itself, and while I could go into this and talk about it for a very, very long time, I'm going to leave it at simply: absolutely, yes. Art in general, and thus games, are about evoking an emotional reaction from the audience. If a game is unfun in a way that enhances the emotional reaction derived from it, then it makes the game greater. Sir Quaffler mentioned Spec Ops: The Line, and I think that's a wonderful example. But rather than explain it myself, I'm going to defer to a group of people far smarter than myself to do that for me.

Penny Arcade - Extra Credits – Spec Ops: The Line (Part 1)
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
So the main purpose of a video game is to satisfy you?

As far as I, myself, am concerned then yes. That is to say that while of course the developer shouldn't sit down and say "Hmm, I wonder what that one guy in Liverpool likes," when I play a game I am looking to be entertained. That is why I play video games. Since this thread is about our own personal opinions, I find what I personally intend to get from a game as relevant to my answer.

If the game does not entertain me, then no amount of bells and whistles or ingeniuty or innovation or cleverness will make me consider it a great game. I will happily acknowledge all of those bells and whistles, but the game will not be great in my eyes.
 

SNOlink

I'm baack. Who missed me?
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Location
United States, Michigan
I think it is necessary. It's called a video game. Game implies that there is supposed to be some kind of entertainment value in it. If you don't find it fun or entertaining in some other way, then it hasn't fulfilled its intended purpose.
 

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