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Spiritual Mask Salesman

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Idk how I missed this thread, but BotW isn't at the end of all three splits definitevely. It's like a place-holder... placement. Basically they are like it's at the end of one of the splits, we just haven't decided on which yet.

I think they will leave it alone. They will let it stand as is because it is giving back freedom to the fans to decided which split they want to choose BotW to be at the end of.
 

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The Hero of Time losing yet winning isn't as big of a deal as long as the timelines merged long after that. You don't have to merge the entirety of the timelines. Just from a certain point on.
So when someone reads a history book what will it say concerning the hero of time's last battle? Three histories with very different outcomes don't work well.
 
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So when someone reads a history book what will it say concerning the hero of time's last battle? Three histories with very different outcomes don't work well.

Pretty similar to what the current timelines read for us outside the games? "The Hero of Time's efforts had three outcomes. Outcome one, he died. This led to..." and ending with "and then some jerk who all historians want to punch in the face caused the three timelines to become one, which is why you have to learn this complicated mess."
 
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But the events in the games all happened in Zelda canon. They’re in different outcomes. There isn’t a book saying there’s three paths of our world.

There isn't a book that says anything about the pre-Sheikah Technology history of Hyrule in BotW.
 
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I was trying to say that it’s impossible for the three outcomes to branch into one game. How would the people in Hyrule even know what to write down if they don’t know the events in WW, TP, ALBW, etc?

Simple: There are people from each timeline existing, or even people who remember accounts of all three due to being merged with their alternate selves, that can do the writing/telling. After all, if nobody survived the merger there wouldn't be a population of Hyrule.

The thing is, saying it's impossible runs across a small problem: Magic. Not just any level of magic, but magic that can warp the fabric of reality in a world it doesn't even have dominion over. Magic that has already created three timelines due to temporal alterations. All it takes is one person making the right wish, even if they don't realize what they're truly wishing for.
 
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Not really. It can just be explained as "at this point, suddenly everything merged" and leave the events prior to that point as different timelines. Add in "and that f^&*ed up everything and was quite cataclysmic" and you pretty much cover the results. It doesn't really require that heavy of an explanation; there's been numerous examples in media of such being done. And even if you want to mash all of them together at once, all you have to do is average out the results (this is what the Elder Scrolls series has done at least once, and I'm pretty certain Chrono Cross did it as well).



The Cap of the Wild literally says this:

"According to legend, this cap was crafted for a hero who travels the wild lands. Wearing it just feels so right."

The Tunic of the Wild:

"This armor was apparently crafted for a hero who travels the wilds. Strangely enough, it's just your size."

Trousers of the Wild:

"Legends say the pants were tailored for a hero who travels the wilderness. Strangely enough, they're the most comfortable pair of pants you've ever worn."

This is the same exact text style as all of the other sets. If those DLC sets break the fourth wall, so does the Wild set.

It's not about the style of text, it's about Misko's Journal, as said above.

I'm not talking about the ''EX'' that appears in menus and such; I'm talking specifically about the ''EX'' at the end of Misko's Journal, which is ingame text that Link himself reads.

Yes, but those require more complex explanations for how each would show up in each timeline than we have been presented, and verge even further into fanfiction than the timeline merger does. The timeline is a massive mess that requires some serious mental judo no matter what outcome you accept; I'm merely going the route that involves far less mental judo than trying to place it within any one timeline

Sorry, how is using ingame evidence to prove/disprove something ''fanfiction''? Last time I checked, fanfiction was used to describe the opposite, but alright...

Hyrule exists in all three timelines. It was refounded post-WW. And, yes, this is canon; check Phantom Sword and Spirit Tracks

That's New Hyrule. BotW obviously takes place in Old Hyrule, as the MS exists in it, and so does the ToT.

Merged into the same being, resulting in what we see as Calamity Ganon.

It could have easily been done using a wish on the Triforce.

Proof of these? Now THIS is what I'd call fanfiction.

(it's actually not in Old Hyrule in BotW, as that game says that Old Hyrule is the Great Plateau; its placement roughly correlates with the placement in ALttP).

It doesn't actually say that; it says that the Great Plateau is the birth place of Hyrule, not that all of Hyrule is in that specific region.

The game barely mentioned the cataclysm that is most immediately plot-relevant, and the event ten thousand years prior is reduced to a single song mentioned in the game. All other legends are hinted at through the Amiibo outfits. So, no, it wouldn't.

But still, not even ONCE? The Great Calamity was atleast mentioned a handful of times, from what I recall.

All three outcomes happened. It's a temporal paradox created by timeline merger; any question of "which of these sequences happened" is going to simply be answered with "all of them."

That literally makes zero sense, though, as they're all contradictory with eachother.

What makes you think they don't? They generally don't mention myths or legends in the game at all, and even the events of the Great Calamity get sparse mention despite it being only a century prior. For the most part, the game simply doesn't give us details beyond hinting that details of Hyrule's history exist, and even then those details not part of a song are 100% relegated to DLC outfits and a reaction you get to Epona.

Would it really be difficult to give one or two NPCs a few lines about something like that?

Meh. These are the easy questions. Try throwing me something hard.

You should try giving more satisfactory answers to the ones I've given you already before I do that.
 
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It's not about the style of text, it's about Misko's Journal, as said above.

I'm not talking about the ''EX'' that appears in menus and such; I'm talking specifically about the ''EX'' at the end of Misko's Journal, which is ingame text that Link himself reads.

Which goes into the other in-game EX text; there for player convenience, not there for what Link actually reads. A lot of games do this, even with content that is absolutely considered canon. It's considered an acceptable break from reality.

Sorry, how is using ingame evidence to prove/disprove something ''fanfiction''? Last time I checked, fanfiction was used to describe the opposite, but alright...

So far, your in-game evidence amounts to stuff added purely for player convenience, which logically would not be present inside the actual game world.

That's New Hyrule. BotW obviously takes place in Old Hyrule, as the MS exists in it, and so does the ToT.

The ToT is on the Great Plateau, and the MS is located a massive distance away. If the ToT is the same one as in OoT, then the MS has been moved a massive distance.

Proof of these? Now THIS is what I'd call fanfiction.

I also stated this much earlier in the discussion: "And, really, there is no canon method as to how BotW is at the end of every timeline; any explanation is pretty much pure fanfiction right now. I'm just going for the one that involves the least amount of headaches (not that it's remotely headache-free, but that it accounts for all elements of lore present in BotW without ruling items in-game as noncanon)."

It doesn't actually say that; it says that the Great Plateau is the birth place of Hyrule, not that all of Hyrule is in that specific region.

And Hyrule post-WW is in an entirely different location than in OoT. If we're going to have this "not all of Hyrule" discussion, we're going to do nothing but go in endless circles around that one point. And it still doesn't change the fact that the Master Sword's pedestal is not anywhere close to the Temple of Time in BotW.

But still, not even ONCE? The Great Calamity was atleast mentioned a handful of times, from what I recall.

Characters in-game basically don't mention anything prior to the first Divine Beast fight with Ganon. So, yes. Not even once.

That literally makes zero sense, though, as they're all contradictory with eachother.

It's a temporal paradox. It doesn't have to make sense or be non-contradictory. And it's not even the first temporal paradox of its kind; OoT used the same paradox in inverse for its three endings. Skyward Sword also features a temporal paradox; its ending, with Demise sealed inside the Master Sword in the past, makes most of the rest of the game impossible to have happened; the ending contradicts the events of the rest of the game. Then there's the temporal paradox in Wind Waker.

Unfortunately, the Legend of Zelda series requires us to wrap our heads around and accept events that outright contradict each other as canon, even when the contradiction should make one set impossible. Having a timeline merger and having three outcomes that contradict each other as canon is not a big stretch compared to the games where the full sequence of events made the full sequence of events self-contradictory.

Would it really be difficult to give one or two NPCs a few lines about something like that?

Not in the least. But, then, BotW is notoriously lacking in that department in general.

You should try giving more satisfactory answers to the ones I've given you already before I do that.

We're discussing a Legend of Zelda game with the possibility of temporal manipulation involved. It is not unusual for canon events within the same timeline to contradict each other when that is involved. So, I don't need to give you a more satisfactory answer because the answers I did give are on the same level as the ones that are established canon.
 
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It amazes me so much that people have such a difficult time accepting a timeline merge.

A merger will happen the same way the three splits happened in the first place; via Aonuma.

The fact that BotW is so far removed from everything and why Aonuma doesn't want to give an official placement is because he doesnt care about the timeline anymore.

He can and will do whatever he wants, magic or science be damned.

A merger wouldnt be this cataclysmic event in Hyrule's history, no one noticed the world split into three during OoT, did they?

If the man in charge says it doesnt have a placement and enjoys us doing his work for him for his own amusement then what's the point?

The only way BotW and timeline theory may matter is when the next game comes out and we'll see if Aonuma is building a new timeline around BotW or not.

The whole established Zelda timeline is now known as the 'era of myth'. Meaning Hyrule in BotW could easily know about the branching timeline... because it may never have actually happened!

Hylian historians probably slammed all the known stories of Ganon and Link together into a branching timeline as Aonuma has because of confusing or conflicting historical evidence and scientific/magical theory.

10,000 years is a long time and the 10,000 years is just what we hear in BotW's backstory!
It could very well be that there are 50,000 years between BotW and a game that came before it and another 50,000 before that before we even touch the established 'era of myth' timeline, if it even links at all.

If the 'era of myth' is just a theorised chain of events based on historical, magical or scientific theory then we could argue if the myth timeline is really even a timeline at all.

Zelda mentions events from all three timelines in numerous dubs of the ceremony scene, given her character and how focussed she is on history and science through her own natural curiosity, she may be referencing each timeline not because they actually happened but because popular theories from Hylian historians and or magical wisemen have become accepted by the society in BotW.

BotW may technically be the only game in the Zelda timeline because of how it has labelled the other games. The other games may not have even happened at all.
 
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The reason why I go with "the amiibo outfits are canon" is because the alternative is a f%&^ing nightmare conversation where we have to go through and pick and choose what parts of the game and its DLCs are canon and which parts are not until someone like Aunoma steps up to clarify it.

If the amiibo outfits are not canon, then is Epona's status as a legendary horse in BotW also not canon? How about the entirety of the Master Sword trials when you return the blade to the pedestal? Or the entirety of the Champion's Ballad? And if the trials to unlock a motorcycle are canon, why are some outfits that are equally out of place not canon?

It's a pointless endeavor that does nothing beneficial and turns the entirety of BotW into a giant argument over what is and is not officially part of the setting.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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This was the best picture I could find to demonstrate this. It's not Zelda related at all, but encapsulated the idea that it isn't a case of three timelines now running as one, it's a new timeline created from the mushing together of three previous. The three still existed on their own, separate from the others.
converging_process_three_to_one_twisted_arrows_Slide01.jpg
Based on that picture, I want convergence theory to be dubbed henceforth Hookshot Theory. Anyway, the idea that all the timelines were heading towards a common history that would rectify the timeline would be a form of predestination theory.
 
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It doesn't have to be a nightmare. Is an item DLC or Amiibo? Then it's not canon. Is it mentioned elsewhere in the game, away from the activation or utilization of such items or the road to collect them? Then they are. Epona is born through Amiibo, and her status as a legendary horse is only confirmed when you are actively riding her. It's fanservice.

One of the Metal Gear Solid games contains a bonus level in which you fight a Monster Hunter enemy. Is it canon that these two universes are linked, or is it just an added bonus to give fans a bit of a boon?

So the entirety of Champion's Ballad is not canon, then?

And the Metal Gear example is irrelevant; that is discussing crossing between two series that don't canonically cross. The items we are discussing in BotW are items that reference games prior in the Zelda timeline. In most video games, and especially in Nintendo games, such references are normally canon.
 
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Is it confirmed in game prior to the downloading of the DLC?

Yes. And according to what Aonuma said about Champion's Ballad finishing the story of BotW, it is canon. So that means that the idea that DLC = not canon contradicts Nintendo's official stance of what is canon in BotW.

So officially the stance seems to be DLC = canon.

Thus far, evidence points to the DLCs and amiibo outfits existing in-universe.
 
I genuinely believe Botw has fundemental issues with its lore because of Aonuma not wanting to bind himself creatively to 30 years of established canon. He said it himself.

The only timeline theory Botw will ever be good for are the future games Nintendo release that are confirmed to link to it.

BotW timeline theory isnt difficult because fans are 'missing something' it is difficult because Aonuma played fast and loose with the rules and paid the established timeline little to no mind outside of references.
 
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I don't recall any aspect of Champion's Ballad being confirmed in game prior to the DLC, but I'll take your word for it. In which case, the Champion's Ballad is canon. Other aspects of the DLC, and Amiibo, are not confirmed. Therefore not canon.

According to who? There is no official word they are not canon, and generally Aunoma or someone else outright confirms something isn't canon when it's not.

Also, why? If it's because the Amiibo outfits exist primarily as references to other games, I have a lot of bad news for you about BotW in general; the game is something like 80% references to prior games. Including large elements of what little plot exists. If we are to remove things for existing as pure references, then BotW ends up with less in it that is canon than Hyrule Warriors.

The biggest problem with this idea that "DLC = noncanon" is that it directly contradicts how Nintendo is treating the DLCs. Every time the DLCs are mentioned, they are treated as canon. They wouldn't have gone to all of that effort to add reactions to Epona in-game if her showing up wasn't canon; Nintendo generally tries to avoid having noncanon elements acknowledged in-game, after all.
 

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