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Spoiler Common Theory Breakdown: One or More Ganons?

How many Ganon's do YOU think there are?

  • One

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Two

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Three

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More than three

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Well, actually, the Gerudo in the game looked down on him far before that.

"But this child, its heart
grew twisted with every
passing year.

The child became a man
who hungered for power
at any price."

They observed him growing slowly more twisted and evil as he grew into adulthood. This is quite unlike the Ganondorf we know from Ocarina of Time - the Gerudo absolutely revered him, all the way up until his imprisonment in the Sacred Realm (and likely even after, though we're in no position to make that call). Thus, logic dictates that they aren't the same Ganon.

You can tell someone's growing more evil and not really care. Or you can just go along with it. The Gerudo's were theives, and Ganondorf was their King, so they were to obey him (hence calling him the Great Ganondorf). But when he entered the forbidden pyramid, that broke one of their most sacred laws, so they would have made him an exile.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
You can tell someone's growing more evil and not really care. Or you can just go along with it. The Gerudo's were theives, and Ganondorf was their King, so they were to obey him (hence calling him the Great Ganondorf). But when he entered the forbidden pyramid, that broke one of their most sacred laws, so they would have made him an exile.

They all speak very derisively of him, however. Let's also put the above quote in greater context:

"That child is destined to
be the mighty guardian of
the Gerudo and the desert.

But this child, its heart
grew twisted with every
passing year.

The child became a man
who hungered for power
at any price."

The child (Ganondorf) is clearly meant to become important. The guardianship is clearly a revered position within the Gerudo, hence they call it a "mighty guardian".

But, and this is key, when they say that the child grew twisted, they say "But this child..." But. But obviously signals a shift in their view of the child. If becoming twisted were a good thing, they wouldn't say "He's going to be the guardian. But he grew twisted, isn't that good?" Nope. They'd say something like "He's going to be the guardian. He's already grown so twisted, isn't that wonderful?" No but.

Also note this statement:

"To have a criminal such as
him enter... His presence
stains its holy ground."

"Criminal such as him" is the operative phrase here. Note that while they already despise him for entering, they call him a criminal when describing him entering - he was already a criminal before he entered. Now sure, the Gerudo are criminals by nature, and they view that as a good thing, but they also have their own laws and customs, and they say "criminal such as him". This implies a certain distinguishing quality between a typical Gerudo criminal and Ganondorf. They view him as a criminal by their standards, not by conventional standards. That's bad.

All this to say: they hated him before he entered the pyramid, and that action led them to outright exile him. That is a very different story than the Ocarina Ganon, thus - two different Ganons.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
They all speak very derisively of him, however. Let's also put the above quote in greater context:

"That child is destined to
be the mighty guardian of
the Gerudo and the desert.

But this child, its heart
grew twisted with every
passing year.

The child became a man
who hungered for power
at any price."

The child (Ganondorf) is clearly meant to become important. The guardianship is clearly a revered position within the Gerudo, hence they call it a "mighty guardian".

But, and this is key, when they say that the child grew twisted, they say "But this child..." But. But obviously signals a shift in their view of the child. If becoming twisted were a good thing, they wouldn't say "He's going to be the guardian. But he grew twisted, isn't that good?" Nope. They'd say something like "He's going to be the guardian. He's already grown so twisted, isn't that wonderful?" No but.

Also note this statement:

"To have a criminal such as
him enter... His presence
stains its holy ground."

"Criminal such as him" is the operative phrase here. Note that while they already despise him for entering, they call him a criminal when describing him entering - he was already a criminal before he entered. Now sure, the Gerudo are criminals by nature, and they view that as a good thing, but they also have their own laws and customs, and they say "criminal such as him". This implies a certain distinguishing quality between a typical Gerudo criminal and Ganondorf. They view him as a criminal by their standards, not by conventional standards. That's bad.

All this to say: they hated him before he entered the pyramid, and that action led them to outright exile him. That is a very different story than the Ocarina Ganon, thus - two different Ganons.

I see what you're saying. But they still could have called him a criminal because their view of him shifted after he stole the Trident. When someone turns on you, you're going to refer to him/her as a bad person in everything. And, even though you're not intending it, this is actually some pretty solid evidence for it being a separate/alternate canon. I mean, the Triforce is never mentioned in the FSS.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
I mean, the Triforce is never mentioned in the FSS.
On that subject, that's also more evidence for a separate Ganondorf. The Ganondorf from OoT knows about the Triforce and wants to use it to rule Hyrule. In FSA, he evidently ignores it, going for the less-powerful Trident, wishing to destroy Hyrule.
I thirst for destruction!
For the pure release of
rage, the power of wrath!

Four Sword or no, my
trident will reduce you
to nothingness!


This discussion really belongs in the Multiple Ganons thread though, so I'm moving these posts there.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
On that subject, that's also more evidence for a separate Ganondorf. The Ganondorf from OoT knows about the Triforce and wants to use it to rule Hyrule. In FSA, he evidently ignores it, going for the less-powerful Trident, wishing to destroy Hyrule.

That's kind of what I was saying, but in the fact that it's also evidence for the FSS possibly being a separate canon.
 

DuckNoises

Gone (Wind) Fishin'
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
Montreal, QC, Canada
GaroXicon said:
Well, actually, the Gerudo in the game looked down on him far before that.

"But this child, its heart
grew twisted with every
passing year.

The child became a man
who hungered for power
at any price."

They observed him growing slowly more twisted and evil as he grew into adulthood. This is quite unlike the Ganondorf we know from Ocarina of Time - the Gerudo absolutely revered him, all the way up until his imprisonment in the Sacred Realm (and likely even after, though we're in no position to make that call). Thus, logic dictates that they aren't the same Ganon.
Don't forget that there are divisions within the Gerudo even within OoT, and while certain individuals revered him, there were prominent individuals that hated him for his corruption and evil, most notably, Nabooru:

Nabooru said:
Even though our laws say that
lone male Gerudo must become
King of the Gerudo, I'll never
bow to such an evil man!
If there were certain individuals that did not respect him in OoT, it's only more likely that they would have less respect for him in FSA if he is the same Ganondorf. If you place FSA on the CT, the remaining and already pessimistic Gerudo would no doubt be skeptical and distrusting of Ganondorf because of his failures on the CT.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
How Many Ganons Do You Think There Are?

Well we all know Ganondorf from OoT is the same one in WW and TP. Then you got the pig versions of Ganon. Do you guys think that Ganon from ALttP is the same as the one from Four Swords Adventures?
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Location
Utah
Do you guys think that Ganon from ALttP is the same as the one from Four Swords Adventures?

Yes, I think he is and I think he is the same one in the Oracle games but that's it. The others IMO are not the same.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Yes, I think he is and I think he is the same one in the Oracle games but that's it. The others IMO are not the same.

Is there any info on how *SPOILERS* Ganon managed to escape from the four sword in adventures? Also the story of how he transformed into a pig was different in the two games. I heard from somewhere that apparently Four Swords Adventures was supposed to be about the imprisoning war, but Shigeru Miyamoto changed it for some reason. Probably would of made more sense.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Mosley we've debated this before and EVERY time I contradict you, you've run out of the conversation.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm

Instant rigor mortis, also known as a Cadaveric spasm can occur INSTANTLY after death if the person in question has been exerting him/herself heavily before death. This explains the standing up.

I don't think he's talking about him standing up. We all know that isn't anywhere near sufficient evidence, even without that "rigor mortis" thing. It has more to do with the fact that his ToP failed him and that it's still out there. He may not be truly dead.

Yes, I think he is and I think he is the same one in the Oracle games but that's it. The others IMO are not the same.

With the information that we have now, the evidence is actually against that.


What are you getting at, here? I don't see what you're trying to tell DuckNoises. Plus, what he says has a lot of merit. Surely Nabooru wasn't the only one who didn't like Ganondorf.
 

Garo

Boy Wonder
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Behind you
What evidence exactly? It's very hard to reconcile FSA's Ganondorf as being the same as TP's or TWW's.

There's no concrete evidence either way. Since it is simpler to assume it is the same, Occam's Razor would suggest that he is the same, which is why I think Juicie is so adamant. I personally take the leap the other way, as FSA Ganon being a different Ganon reconciles a few issues on the timeline, making things fit a bit simpler. Not perfect, but at this point we don't have enough info to make a perfect timeline, so it's good enough.
 

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