Breath of the Wild Combat and Enemies

[Lozjam]

With all of this excitement, combat has seemed to taken a back seat. So, I think we should discuss it! Here is what I have noticed so far!

-You have a multitude of weapons in this game that each play massively differently. What I have seen so far is: Spears, Clubs, Swords, Scimitars, Axes, Stalchildren bones, War Hammers, 2 handed swords, Bow and Arrows, and a Fire Rod

-Each weapon has its very own Zelda combo, true to the series. Combat initially looks like Wind Wakers... However, each weapon has its own charge attack(for example, the sword has the spin attack). And you can jump whenever you want in this Zelda game

-The game rewards good timing, by slowing down and allowing for extra flashy Flurry attacks for perfect dodges

-You can use each weapon as a throwing weapon for extra damage

- You can disarm enemies if you catch them offguard, and use those weapons against them

-Weapons have limited durability. But you find a ton of weapons in the world anyway

-You can take out Enemies in multiple ways. You don't have to fight. You can use the environment against them. For example, I have seen people use lighting the grass on fire to completely annihilate a group of enemies, you can use your axe to chop down trees on your enemies, you can crush enemies with boulders. You can also fully use Runes to your advantage as well.

-There is stealth in the game. You even have a meter in the UI that tells you how quiet you are for stealth. You can even take to the skies on the paraglider, to sail over enemies heads and then jump and stab to the ground for a sneak attack.

-Enemy AI is at its finest. Enemies fully have influential AI. They will use their own weapons, and environments against you when given the chance. For example, I have seen Bokoblins near a campfire to light their Spears on fire(much like the player can do) to do more damage against you. The best example I have seen of this, was when Andre Segers from GameXplain, weakened a bomb barrel with his arrows. Seeing that it was weak, a bokoblin ran up to the bomb barrel, picked it up, and threw it towards link, insta killing him.

-Enemies will wield multiple weapons and change their behavior with them.

-Enemies change behaviors in different environments and whether it is Day or night

-There is a ton of enemy diversity in this game. Keese, Chu Chu's Stalfos, Stalchildren, Guardians, Rock Monsters, Baby Guardians. And this is just in the 2% of the map we just saw!

-There are a lot of enemies that do a ton of damage and serve a serious threat. They will instakill Link for days.

-Link can buff himself with new equipment, and new potions and food. There are no hearts dropped in the game. You have to find everything yourself in a natural manner.


So what do you guys think of this deeply expanded combat system? Do you have any awesome moments you have seen that you want to add? Do you have any mechanics you want to add?

 

[Ventus]

Really important is enemy diversity. what we've seen is great for the tiny sliver that we got...but I want to see armored foes who have low hitstun, I want to see foes with super armor, I want to see foes who have skills of their own. Like can you ****ing imagine a Dark Link battle in this game, one who is equipped with stasis and other ****ing runes? How awesome would that be?

 

[Lozjam]

Projared proves another really cool tactic that you can use in game.
You can hide out in the trees to take out enemies with stealth.

Again, using the environment to your advantage is really awesome.

 

[Dio]

I want bosses that requires you to utilise multiple runes to beat. Especially the final boss. I think in HW they did it well where you needed the skills you used fighting other bosses but all in one fight.

 

[Ventus]

I want bosses that requires you to utilise multiple runes to beat. Especially the final boss. I think in HW they did it well where you needed the skills you used fighting other bosses but all in one fight.

considering you can rush straight to the boss I doubt this is likely, unless the boss scales with how much of the game you've completed.

 

[Zonda]

Really important is enemy diversity. what we've seen is great for the tiny sliver that we got...but I want to see armored foes who have low hitstun, I want to see foes with super armor, I want to see foes who have skills of their own. Like can you ****ing imagine a Dark Link battle in this game, one who is equipped with stasis and other ****ing runes? How awesome would that be?

If we don't come up against an enemy with absurd windboxes and a hammer with a 1 in 9 chance at huge knockback I want my money back

 

[Maikeru]

I already love how you can approach situations from different angles.

The only things I would like to see added on are:

Enemy variety.
A Dark Souls' style weapon and item system which doesn't stop the action.
Lastly, I want a halberd. Cause they're fun.


And there's a lot I saw which moments that left me very excited. But it basically boils down to how you can interact with so many things in the world in a way you never have before. I wanna set things on fire.

 

[Ventus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOrwRtDWWhc

skip to ~11:12 or so. Already the blue bokoblins have super armor for some of their attacks. This game is already shaping up so well, and all we got was a bland E3 demo devoid of interactions with NPCs or towns. how badass...this is truly going to be the next OoT of Zelda.

 

[Azure Sage]

I wished that I could have seen those flurry strike things showcased more in the gameplay we saw, as I'm very curious about them. But I really love everything we've seen. This leaves me wondering if we'll get to make our own weapons later on, instead of just hoping to come across a really good one in the wilderness somewhere. But man, gotta love those enemies; their designs and their AI. It looks amazing and you really need to put thought into how you fight a lot of the time, it's not just a hack and slash run across the plateau which is great.

 

[Ventus]

I wished that I could have seen those flurry strike things showcased more in the gameplay we saw, as I'm very curious about them. But I really love everything we've seen. This leaves me wondering if we'll get to make our own weapons later on, instead of just hoping to come across a really good one in the wilderness somewhere. But man, gotta love those enemies; their designs and their AI. It looks amazing and you really need to put thought into how you fight a lot of the time, it's not just a hack and slash run across the plateau which is great.

Theyre difficult to activate. Dont know the exact frame window obviously, but i would guess its something like a 2-3 frame window. Also notice that they activate it after an enemy begins an attack that grants them super armor, and yet there were absolutely no tells that you could perfect dodge. Thats the kinda **** we need. No screen hints, no big ass PRESS A TO PARRY, just abilities that are sort of discovered. Im loving every ****ing second of thia, and this is literally just the bland empty E3 demo. BotW once again is going to be the next OoT of Zelda.

 

[the8thark]

You have a multitude of weapons in this game that each play massively differently. What I have seen so far is: Spears, Clubs, Swords, Scimitars, Axes, Stalchildren bones, War Hammers, 2 handed swords, Bow and Arrows, and a Fire Rod

Just like in Hyrule Warriors

Each weapon has its very own Zelda combo, true to the series. Combat initially looks like Wind Wakers... However, each weapon has its own charge attack(for example, the sword has the spin attack). And you can jump whenever you want in this Zelda game

Just like in Hyrule Warriors.

The game rewards good timing, by slowing down and allowing for extra flashy Flurry attacks for perfect dodges

Like Skyward Sword.

You can use each weapon as a throwing weapon for extra damage

Like Wind Waker where you can find random weapons and throw them.

You can disarm enemies if you catch them offguard, and use those weapons against them

Can do this in Wind Waker.

Weapons have limited durability. But you find a ton of weapons in the world anyway

This is new. I think you'll have a standard sword or something but these aditional weapons will be either for fun or required ot beat some bosses/enemies. Their limited durability means you can't get one and beat a boss with it, you'l have to wait till the boss room gives you another.

You can take out Enemies in multiple ways. You don't have to fight. You can use the environment against them. For example, I have seen people use lighting the grass on fire to completely annihilate a group of enemies, you can use your axe to chop down trees on your enemies, you can crush enemies with boulders. You can also fully use Runes to your advantage as well.

Elements of this do exist in Hyrule Warriors but not to this extent.

There is stealth in the game. You even have a meter in the UI that tells you how quiet you are for stealth. You can even take to the skies on the paraglider, to sail over enemies heads and then jump and stab to the ground for a sneak attack.

Using stealth like an animal on the hunt. Another reason why BotW is a perfect title for this game. The stealth is a new thing, somethnig I assume the new development team came up with. A very interesting choice to have in the game. I quite like it. It feels very Monster Hunter like.
Flying in for the kill is no different to using the leaf in Wind Waker or similar ways in other Zelda games.

Enemy AI is at its finest. Enemies fully have influential AI. They will use their own weapons, and environments against you when given the chance. For example, I have seen Bokoblins near a campfire to light their Spears on fire(much like the player can do) to do more damage against you. The best example I have seen of this, was when Andre Segers from GameXplain, weakened a bomb barrel with his arrows. Seeing that it was weak, a bokoblin ran up to the bomb barrel, picked it up, and threw it towards link, insta killing him.

Wind Waker has some of this. But not at the extent it is here. This just makes the world feel more realistic. Like the mob of whatever is a living part of Hyrule, not just an enemy placed there waiting to be killed by Link. Games like World of Warcraft and others have done this for almost a decade. I am glad Aonuma and the new crew is doing this for Zelda now too.

Enemies will wield multiple weapons and change their behavior with them.

Wind Waker had this a little but obviously ramped up for BotW.

Enemies change behaviors in different environments and whether it is Day or night

I remember this happening a lot on Majoras Mask. But a lot fo that was scripted. I feel this in BotW is more fluid and natural.

There is a ton of enemy diversity in this game. Keese, Chu Chu's Stalfos, Stalchildren, Guardians, Rock Monsters, Baby Guardians. And this is just in the 2% of the map we just saw!

Most Zelda games have enemy diversity. BotW is no different.

There are a lot of enemies that do a ton of damage and serve a serious threat. They will instakill Link for days.

Just like Xenoblade Chronicles X. Later on in the game appropriately geared these enemies will be cake to beat.

Link can buff himself with new equipment, and new potions and food. There are no hearts dropped in the game. You have to find everything yourself in a natural manner.

This is exactly why this game is called BotW as you are living of the land. You are a breath of the wild in essence. People will ahve to play the game totally differently to pprevious Zelda titles as you can not farm hearts in any area. But I am sure you'll be able to farm food you can eat in certain areas. Aonuma and co would not make the initial game, hero mode hard. Hero mode (if in the game) will do that.

So what do you guys think of this deeply expanded combat system?

It's not really expanded all that much honestly. It's just reimagined in a different way. The same base idea of using a thing (weapon or other) to beat your foes is still the way you do it. Just how you do it is slightly different.

Do I like the combat in BotW overall? I'll say yes. because it's tge same thing as other Zelda games but slightly reimagined. This slight difference makes all the difference. Makes it feel fresh, new and interesting.

 

[Lozjam]

Just like in Hyrule Warriors


Just like in Hyrule Warriors.


Like Skyward Sword.


Like Wind Waker where you can find random weapons and throw them.


Can do this in Wind Waker.


This is new. I think you'll have a standard sword or something but these aditional weapons will be either for fun or required ot beat some bosses/enemies. Their limited durability means you can't get one and beat a boss with it, you'l have to wait till the boss room gives you another.


Elements of this do exist in Hyrule Warriors but not to this extent.


Using stealth like an animal on the hunt. Another reason why BotW is a perfect title for this game. The stealth is a new thing, somethnig I assume the new development team came up with. A very interesting choice to have in the game. I quite like it. It feels very Monster Hunter like.
Flying in for the kill is no different to using the leaf in Wind Waker or similar ways in other Zelda games.


Wind Waker has some of this. But not at the extent it is here. This just makes the world feel more realistic. Like the mob of whatever is a living part of Hyrule, not just an enemy placed there waiting to be killed by Link. Games like World of Warcraft and others have done this for almost a decade. I am glad Aonuma and the new crew is doing this for Zelda now too.


Wind Waker had this a little but obviously ramped up for BotW.


I remember this happening a lot on Majoras Mask. But a lot fo that was scripted. I feel this in BotW is more fluid and natural.


Most Zelda games have enemy diversity. BotW is no different.


Just like Xenoblade Chronicles X. Later on in the game appropriately geared these enemies will be cake to beat.


This is exactly why this game is called BotW as you are living of the land. You are a breath of the wild in essence. People will ahve to play the game totally differently to pprevious Zelda titles as you can not farm hearts in any area. But I am sure you'll be able to farm food you can eat in certain areas. Aonuma and co would not make the initial game, hero mode hard. Hero mode (if in the game) will do that.


It's not really expanded all that much honestly. It's just reimagined in a different way. The same base idea of using a thing (weapon or other) to beat your foes is still the way you do it. Just how you do it is slightly different.

Do I like the combat in BotW overall? I'll say yes. because it's tge same thing as other Zelda games but slightly reimagined. This slight difference makes all the difference. Makes it feel fresh, new and interesting.

In the beginning at least, there is not a standard sword that is unbreakable. Nope. Now swords and things are a little bit more sturdy than Bokoblin clubs, but that happens when you have something metal over something wood. Each weapon is just as viable as the next for different reasons. For example, all your sticks, spears, and clubs can be set on fire if there is a campfire nearby, for extra damage. And many enemies are actually pretty weak to fire. Axes and Claymores are extremely powerful, and you can do a lot of things with them, but you don't get a shield either. Spears have extremely long range. Bows have even longer range. It's worth noting that the Bow, seemingly the "main" weapon of the game due to artwork, also breaks as well.

Skyward Sword never had any sort of flurry attacks as well. Skyward sword never even played with slowing down time as well.

Also what's different from Wind Waker, is that you get to keep the items you win from enemies. And this is completely essential for the game.

Skyward Sword had almost no enemy diversity, and especially open world games have very little enemy diversity. So this is a very valid thing to bring up, as each different enemy and group of enemies have different strategies to beat them. For example, Stalchildren handle exactly like the Stalfos in Wind Waker, this makes a return after a whole 14 years, where you need to break the Stalfos and then go after its happy roll around head(though what's amazing, is that you can steal body parts of the Stalfos and use them as weapons). So this is an extremely valid point to bring up.

As for World of Warcraft. I must ask, do enemies react to the wildlife of the game as well? Do they react to the weather, having different weapons, and taking advantage of unique situations?

Furthermore, something that is completely different in combat, is that you can approach each situation differently. You can use the environment this time to your advantage, and you can solve combat with puzzle making. For example, you can cut down any tree you want, and roll it down a hill to crush your enemies. You can actually use all your Runes in many ways for combat. You can use fire, to creat an updraft, so that you can get height advantage over an enemy that's in front of you.

Additionally. The most important thing of combat, is that it doesn't hold your hand. You can go anywhere you want, but you can get your ass kicked very easily. That is extremely important and new to the Zelda series.

So yes, have a ton of these mechanics appeared in prior Zelda games. Yes. However, all of these changes have happened on a grand scale, to nearly every mechanic of the game. So it's actually radically different since everything has changed, the focus has changed, and the way you approach enemies is up to you. All of these big changes on each mechanic, using the best mechanics of Zelda games as a base, have all added up, to create a combat system that is completely innovative and unique, especially compared to other open world games.

 

[RegalBryant]

When Skyward Sword came out, they said stuff about having more unique ways to defeat enemies instead of just slicing them up(for instance, feeding Deku Babas bombs) and I was always disappointed that more didn't come of that. So I'm hoping to see them expanding more upon this concept this time around

 

[the8thark]

In the beginning at least, there is not a standard sword that is unbreakable. Nope. Now swords and things are a little bit more sturdy than Bokoblin clubs, but that happens when you have something metal over something wood. Each weapon is just as viable as the next for different reasons. For example, all your sticks, spears, and clubs can be set on fire if there is a campfire nearby, for extra damage. And many enemies are actually pretty weak to fire. Axes and Claymores are extremely powerful, and you can do a lot of things with them, but you don't get a shield either. Spears have extremely long range. Bows have even longer range. It's worth noting that the Bow, seemingly the "main" weapon of the game due to artwork, also breaks as well.

Yeah this will be a very polarising part of the game. Some will like it, others will not.

Skyward Sword never had any sort of flurry attacks as well. Skyward sword never even played with slowing down time as well.

Skyward Sword had a limited form of a combo attack but nothing about slowing down time though.

Also what's different from Wind Waker, is that you get to keep the items you win from enemies. And this is completely essential for the game.

This does interest me. If you get to keep them in your invemtory and can swap between the different weapons or what. I'll have to rewatch the game play videos.

Skyward Sword had almost no enemy diversity, and especially open world games have very little enemy diversity. So this is a very valid thing to bring up, as each different enemy and group of enemies have different strategies to beat them. For example, Stalchildren handle exactly like the Stalfos in Wind Waker, this makes a return after a whole 14 years, where you need to break the Stalfos and then go after its happy roll around head(though what's amazing, is that you can steal body parts of the Stalfos and use them as weapons). So this is an extremely valid point to bring up.

Skyward Sword had lots of enemy diversity. One of the good parts of SS.
Stealing parts of enemies I thought was a really cool idea, I liked that a lot.

As for World of Warcraft. I must ask, do enemies react to the wildlife of the game as well? Do they react to the weather, having different weapons, and taking advantage of unique situations?

Some do now in the later expansions yes.

Furthermore, something that is completely different in combat, is that you can approach each situation differently. You can use the environment this time to your advantage, and you can solve combat with puzzle making. For example, you can cut down any tree you want, and roll it down a hill to crush your enemies. You can actually use all your Runes in many ways for combat. You can use fire, to creat an updraft, so that you can get height advantage over an enemy that's in front of you.

Runes in BotW feel a little similar to Diablo 3 runes. As in in both games they give you new and extra abilities to your existing items or weapons. An interesting idea to add to a Zelda game. I do like this.

Additionally. The most important thing of combat, is that it doesn't hold your hand. You can go anywhere you want, but you can get your ass kicked very easily. That is extremely important and new to the Zelda series.

You can go anywhere to places you have enough stamina to do so. That is bolded and underlined for emphasis. It's not pure open world like Xenoblade Chronicles X. But it's close. I do like what Aonuma and co have done with the BotW world though.

So yes, have a ton of these mechanics appeared in prior Zelda games. Yes. However, all of these changes have happened on a grand scale, to nearly every mechanic of the game. So it's actually radically different since everything has changed, the focus has changed, and the way you approach enemies is up to you. All of these big changes on each mechanic, using the best mechanics of Zelda games as a base, have all added up, to create a combat system that is completely innovative and unique, especially compared to other open world games.

I can agree on this mostly. BotW is taking many ideas and mechanics from other older Zelda games and enhancing them to the max. Making them from a little used mechanic in the previous game, to something amazing in this game.

 

[Lozjam]

Yeah this will be a very polarising part of the game. Some will like it, others will not.


Skyward Sword had a limited form of a combo attack but nothing about slowing down time though.


This does interest me. If you get to keep them in your invemtory and can swap between the different weapons or what. I'll have to rewatch the game play videos.

Yes you can. You get to swap these at will.
Like I said, you can even take a Stalfos arm for your own and use it to beat up the baddies of Zelda

Conventional Zelda items such as the Fire Rod, and the Hammer as well make an appearance as weapons over items.
The Fire Rod, if I may add, is amazing.

Runes in BotW feel a little similar to Diablo 3 runes. As in in both games they give you new and extra abilities to your existing items or weapons. An interesting idea to add to a Zelda game. I do like this.

I actually made an extensive thread about everything we know about Runes if you are interested
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/runes-the-new-items-of-zelda.56664/

You can go anywhere to places you are clever enough to do so. That is bolded and underlined for emphasis. It's not pure open world like Xenoblade Chronicles X. But it's close. I do like what Aonuma and co have done with the BotW world though.

This is a huge distinction. From the beginning of the game, you do not even need to permanently upgrade your stamina to get wherever you want to go. You just need to be clever enough. All you would need to do, is do some slight preparing in gathering and cooking Staminashrooms, that boost your stamina on whatever you need to do. From the beginning of the game, if you are clever enough, you can go anywhere. Another example is. the cold is extremely dangerous for Link. In the cold, Link just takes damage until he dies. He "needs" to get warm clothing meant for the cold before he starts journeying on the mountainside. But you don't need to if you are clever enough. Link can bring a lot of firewood(from chopping down trees) into this cold area. He can make lines of fires to almost constantly stay warm enough to explore, and use things such as torches, to carry to flames from place to place. Also, you can bring in an assortment of spicy foods to make sure that Link is warm during cold exploration as well.