Character Development - Backstory vs. Growth

[Mido]

The journey that chronicles who a character was, is, and potentially will become is a journey that often serves as the crux to many a narrative in media. This is one reason why character development is generally held in such high regard. A character's backstory coupled with said character's present and future growth form the key components to the development formula. This leads me to my question: should either a character's backstory or present and future growth take precedence over the other? Why or why not? If not, what would you consider to be the ideal balance between backstory and growth? Feel free to provide examples of characters with either good or bad arcs rooted in the relationship between backstory and growth to support your stances. I'm looking forward to hear your input!

 

[Spirit]

I think it depends very much on the character and the genre with which one takes precedence but we do need all three (past, present and future) to make a character feel rounded.

John Whoever from Die Hard springs to mind as a character with all three in equal supply and who is all the stronger of a character for it. He has a tattered relationship we learn abouy but it isn't too complicated and doesn't require a lot of screen time but serves as good motivation when the catalyst of that backstory is presently in danger.

Then the conquering of the terrorists through present actions leads into his future and that future is made believable because his present struggles and growth lead him to that resolve.

It isnt Shakespeare but it gets the job done neatly.

Now take Ghirahim from Skyward Sword. He starts angry, we dont know why that is, he ends angry even after victories and struggles. We learn next to nothing about him other than his mission is bound to his master.

We get no personal backstory for Ghirahim, we only get his present mission. We get no growth from him because even if he wins or loses he is still angry.

He isnt an entertaining character because of all of these narrative flaws and Demise is even worse!

So we need balance.

Watchmen is another good example and it is delivered in a non-linear fashion but we still get backstories of the characters so we can be invested and the characters can be developed into the present of the narrative and have their arcs.

So... i guess i believe we need balance of those narrative tools for good characterisation and investment, not one over the other.

 

[NintendoCN]

A backstory should be used to give a reason why someone reacts to certain things, and growth is important, take Ryudo from Grandia 2 for example due to his past he acts a certain way, as he journeys acroos the world he changes because of his interaction with the party.

 

[Pen]

This leads me to my question: should either a character's backstory or present and future growth take precedence over the other? Why or why not? If not, what would you consider to be the ideal balance between backstory and growth? Feel free to provide examples of characters with either good or bad arcs rooted in the relationship between backstory and growth to support your stances. I'm looking forward to hear your input!

I think both aspects of a character's development are certainly very important. Many of my favourite fictional characters have a good deal of both backstory and growth but I think it depends on the type of character too. Most commonly I'd say growth takes precedence over backstory, and that makes sense seeing as most fictional works have pretty linear plots, but of course I deeply value both. Prince Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is a great example of a character with exceptional backstory and growth. Throughout all three seasons the viewers keep learning more about his past in a way that feels natural and very interesting, while at the same time Zuko has one of the most incredible character development journeys in all of fiction in my personal opinion and he grows into a character that feels very real.

Another example of a character with good amounts of both aspects and who is very well created is Reiner Braun from Attack on Titan (the guy in my avatar currently). I read the manga which is way ahead of the anime and I won't spoil anything, but Reiner is a very complex character whose growth I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing and he has a past that explains a lot about his character and why he turned out the way he did. I suppose there are similarities between both of the characters I mentioned in the sense that both start off as important characters though not amongst the most important cast of their stories, yet slowly but steadily they become more and more important to the overall plot as the audience learns more about their histories and the characters start growing and developing into characters that I find very interesting thanks to the depth they're given.

 

[Dizzi]

I guess both are important to an extent but if you've got amnesia youre not gonna have aback story really, so you have to discover that through flashies...

 

[YIGAhim]

We get no personal backstory for Ghirahim, we only get his present mission. We get no growth from him because even if he wins or loses he is still angry.

Absolutely false.

Ghirahim had an excellent arc.

Beginning as a polite, weird dude who has respect for his opponent, we slowly see through time his true colors and his shift to who he actually is. Arcs that just go up (Or, rather, down) are the best and most interesting.

Good to bad = can be good

bad to good = can be good

good-bad to bad = can be good

bad to worse = can be good

Ghirahim was actually excellent in his arc, but unfortunately it was rather thin, and he had no backstory

 

[Cfrock]

Growth (or maybe more accurately change) takes precedence over backstory for me. Take Han Solo as an example. How he became a scoundrel isn't as interesting as how he became a hero. It doesn't matter to me what his life was like before Episode IV and giving me some basic details to contextualise him is fine. Ditto Vader, while we're on Star Wars. Anakin fell to the dark side. Sick, now let's see how he gets redeemed. I'd expand on this and say that the story of how Anakin fell to the dark side could be compelling in itself, but the fact that when we did see that it was in a prequel instantly contextualised the whole thing as back story. In that context, it didn't matter how he fell because we already knew how he was redeemed. If Star Wars had started with Episode I then I would have personally found Anakin's story more interesting. It's almost as though the prequels were just glorified exposition due to the fact that they, by design, are providing backstory to an existing narrative.

Basically, I generally find it more interesting to see where someone is going than where they've been. That isn't to say I don't value backstory, or that I don't think backstory can help us understand a character better or add depth to them (Severus Snape comes to mind), just that if I had to pick one over the other, I'd go for growth.

And now for the real reason I'm posting.

Ghirahim had an excellent arc.

No he didn't. He didn't have an arc at all.

Beginning as a polite, weird dude who has respect for his opponent

He wasn't polite, he was condescending. He talks down to Link in their very first meeting because he doesn't respect him. He thinks Link is worthless and that's why he toys with him, doing things like that tongue waggle and being amused simply by Link wanting to fight him. If you read that as politeness and respect then, dude, I don't know what to tell you.

we slowly see through time his true colors and his shift to who he actually is

No we don't. The next few times Ghirahim meets Link he behaves the exact same way. At no point is there any change to how Ghirahim acts or treats Link. He is condescending in the same aloof, smug way and he continually underestimates Link by either saying he isn't worth fighting (like at the Temple of Time) or by deliberately not using his full strength (like at the Fire Sanctuary). This isn't a change in his character. He is acting and making decisions that are identical to their first meeting. Saying this is a change is flat out wrong.

Arcs that just go up (Or, rather, down) are the best and most interesting.

I know from comments you've made in other threads that you like how Ghiarhim 'totally loses control' at the end of the game but he doesn't. When Link gets through the horde and confronts Ghirahim as he's summoning Demise, Ghiarhim frowns and says something to the effect of 'Now you've gone and done it!' He then has an anime power-up animation and immediately begins smugly condescending to Link in the exact same tone and manner as he has through the whole game. He even fights him in the same way, just with magic orange floors this time. Ghirahim doesn't lose any respect for Link over the game because he never had any for him to begin with. Ghirahim never loses his politeness because he was never being polite to begin with. Ghirahim doesn't even descend into a loss of self control because what you see as him doing so is literally just him flexing his muscles for eight seconds before continuing to act the way he has through the entire game with the same aloof self-confidence he's had since the moment we met him. Ghirahim is a completely static character who exists to advance the plot and nothing more.

It's no secret that I hate SS, and if you like Ghirahim then whatever. But don't pretend he has an arc. He is an aesthetic with absolutely no substance, character, or depth. Like Steampunk, or a Big Mac.

 

[YIGAhim]

He wasn't polite, he was condescending. He talks down to Link in their very first meeting because he doesn't respect him. He thinks Link is worthless and that's why he toys with him, doing things like that tongue waggle and being amused simply by Link wanting to fight him. If you read that as politeness and respect then, dude, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe I used a word that did not accurately describe what I mean in my head. Not quite polite, but formal.

I know from comments you've made in other threads that you like how Ghiarhim 'totally loses control' at the end of the game but he doesn't. When Link gets through the horde and confronts Ghirahim as he's summoning Demise, Ghiarhim frowns and says something to the effect of 'Now you've gone and done it!' He then has an anime power-up animation and immediately begins smugly condescending to Link in the exact same tone and manner as he has through the whole game. He even fights him in the same way, just with magic orange floors this time. Ghirahim doesn't lose any respect for Link over the game because he never had any for him to begin with. Ghirahim never loses his politeness because he was never being polite to begin with. Ghirahim doesn't even descend into a loss of self control because what you see as him doing so is literally just him flexing his muscles for eight seconds before continuing to act the way he has through the entire game with the same aloof self-confidence he's had since the moment we met him. Ghirahim is a completely static character who exists to advance the plot and nothing more.

It's no secret that I hate SS, and if you like Ghirahim then whatever. But don't pretend he has an arc. He is an aesthetic with absolutely no substance, character, or depth. Like Steampunk, or a Big Mac.

His "I wasn't even trying bro", and "I'm just playin'" turn into "Holy **** you piece of **** I'mma **** you up as I ****ing rip off your ****ing head and watch you die" pretty quick. Totally him losing his cool

 

[Cfrock]

Not quite polite, but formal.

His "I wasn't even trying bro", and "I'm just playin'" turn into "Holy **** you piece of **** I'mma **** you up as I ****ing rip off your ****ing head and watch you die" pretty quick. Totally him losing his cool

First, that's not what he does. What he does is curl his fingers in anger and say "I realize a simple child like you knows nothing of magic, but spells like this take time and a steady hand! Can’t you wait quietly like a good boy? Hmm? You petulant brat…" He's still being condescending and he clearly still retains his composure. He's annoyed, sure, but just having an emotion is not an arc or a change in character.

He then dramatically stares at the floor and says "You’ve pushed me too far. I’ve waited my whole existence for this! This is my moment! You know what? Fine! If you’re so intent on hurrying to your grave, I’ll be happy to show you the way! This time there will be no heroic escape. I was a fool to toy with you and let you walk away with your life before, but I won’t make that mistake again." He then does a Dragonball ki charge and turns into a porcelain doll. This is the angriest he gets, which is understandable, but we still see his condescension, his self-assurance that he can destroy Link if he just stops playing with him.

After he lifts himself and Link into the air he drops the frown and the tense fingers and says "If only I’d put you in your place from the very beginning [condescension]. Show a human a little mercy and next thing you know, he thinks himself your equal [condescension]! Given my station, I had to maintain some semblance of dignity, so I let you run with your life… Twice, even [self-assurance]. Such a guilty pleasure… [condescension] But instead of scurrying away like any creature with a basic instinct to survive, you just kept coming back. Again… and again… and again [condescension]"

Notice a clear pattern here? Ghirahim got angry for about twelve seconds and powered up so he could kill Link, but his attitude didn't change at all. His outlook didn't change. His motivations didn't change even, he still just wants Link to not interfere. The only thing different between this scene and literally every other with Ghirahim is that this time he's going to kill Link because he recognises Link isn't going to be scared off. The fact it takes Ghirahim until the very end of the game to realise this is the perfect indicator that he's remained completely static for the whole story.

One last quote to drive this point home. The next thing Ghirahim says is "For you, boy, I’ve prepared a most appropriate and humiliating death. I even have a pet name for it—I call it the endless plunge! First, I will take my time bludgeoning you, and when I grow bored of it, I will drive you to the edge and deliver a last strike and send you falling to your doom! I’ll delight in casting your body into this pit and snuffing out the flame of your life! Your broken body will serve as a fine sustenance for the demon king!"

So this guy who's 'totally lost his cool' is calmly explaining in detail what he's going to do to Link (which is a method slow and complex enough to show he's not enraged in the way you suggest) and he even states outright that he's going to take his time and wait until he's bored before he does the thing you seem to think he's so furiously intent on doing. Ghirahim doesn't lose his cool, dude. He gets annoyed for a moment and then he's right back to the way he has been the whole game. Even in the fight itself, it's the same slow-paced affair as his other fights, with Ghirahim telegraphing his attacks for four seconds before doing anything. If he really lost his cool he'd be aggressively pressing the attack constantly, trying to tear Link to shreds and forcing you onto the defensive. That doesn't happen because Ghirahim doesn't have any kind of arc.

Second, even if Ghirahim did completely lose his cool at the very end, that still wouldn't be an arc, let alone an "excellent" one. Do you honestly think one single scene constitutes a character arc? That a character can remain fixed for the entire story only to suddenly be entirely different at the very end with no development towards that point? I don't have any disagreement with you on the general notion that seeing a character gradually lose everything until they're nothing but a desperate, near-feral mess lashing out in anger or fear or hatred can be interesting and engaging, but Ghirahim is absolutely not an example of this.

 

[Castle]

Backstory and character growth should support each other. More over, they should support the rest of the narrative, themes, and character cast.

But while backstory is essential to understanding who a character is and why a character behaves a certain way, it is ultimately less interesting than growth unless something about a characters past makes an essential impact on their development. Such moments are often foreshadowed and reserved for some big reveal later in the narrative that explains why a character is a certain way. It's usually the death of a loved one or some huge failing that cost them dearly.

If it is explained in backstory that a character failed at something before, then the character should develop by being given a chance to succeed at a similar situation at some crucial point in the narrative.

In another example, Princess Leia is a relatively static character. She doesn't grow or develop much or at all throughout the only three part Star Wars saga in existence. Nor does she have much of a back story other than what is awkwardly and unnecessarily shoehorned in later on. Her being Luke's sister (beyond its unfortunate implications) never had any bearing on the story, the themes of the story, her, Luke, Vader or Han - other than Vader name dropping her out of the blue to cheese off Luke during their final confrontation which kinda sorta supports Luke's character development in some small silly way. So Leia's backstory is useless.

However, her character is used to good effect to support Han Solo's development. In the first movie, we see how Han goes from self interested loner to true friend and self sacrificial hero. His development arc has essentially the same premise in Empire, except it is far deeper now because it is intertwined with his burgeoning romance with Leia. Han and Leia are two characters who should never be together, the rouge and the princess. Of the entire cast they're the two who bicker the most because they are both head strong self assured characters who over the course of their relationship turn the animosity that stems from that into respect for each other. Over the course of the story, after already having learned how to work with others for a good cause that is greater than himself, Han also learns how to love another. And ultimately he ends up sacrificing himself for others as well.

Midna is an excellent example of a character whose backstory supports her character arc. She starts out as a selfish brat who cares nothing for Link, Zelda or Hyrule and is only interested in working with them to further her as yet unknown agenda. Then we learn of her back story, which reveals her true nature and not only her character's motivation but also why the Twilight, the major plot device, is a thing. Then throughout the course of the story we see her come to appreciate Link and Zelda on a personal level and we watch as she comes to care for them and Hyrule despite her people and theirs having sufficient reason to bear great animosity towards each other and being incapable of coexisting.

Midna's backstory ties into the narrative and supports her development arc which supports the themes that enrich the narrative...

So backstory and character development should never exist in a vacuum. They're an essential pillar that support each other and prop up all the other elements of a story.

 

[YIGAhim]

First, that's not what he does. What he does is curl his fingers in anger and say "I realize a simple child like you knows nothing of magic, but spells like this take time and a steady hand! Can’t you wait quietly like a good boy? Hmm? You petulant brat…" He's still being condescending and he clearly still retains his composure. He's annoyed, sure, but just having an emotion is not an arc or a change in character.

He then dramatically stares at the floor and says "You’ve pushed me too far. I’ve waited my whole existence for this! This is my moment! You know what? Fine! If you’re so intent on hurrying to your grave, I’ll be happy to show you the way! This time there will be no heroic escape. I was a fool to toy with you and let you walk away with your life before, but I won’t make that mistake again." He then does a Dragonball ki charge and turns into a porcelain doll. This is the angriest he gets, which is understandable, but we still see his condescension, his self-assurance that he can destroy Link if he just stops playing with him.

After he lifts himself and Link into the air he drops the frown and the tense fingers and says "If only I’d put you in your place from the very beginning [condescension]. Show a human a little mercy and next thing you know, he thinks himself your equal [condescension]! Given my station, I had to maintain some semblance of dignity, so I let you run with your life… Twice, even [self-assurance]. Such a guilty pleasure… [condescension] But instead of scurrying away like any creature with a basic instinct to survive, you just kept coming back. Again… and again… and again [condescension]"

Notice a clear pattern here? Ghirahim got angry for about twelve seconds and powered up so he could kill Link, but his attitude didn't change at all. His outlook didn't change. His motivations didn't change even, he still just wants Link to not interfere. The only thing different between this scene and literally every other with Ghirahim is that this time he's going to kill Link because he recognises Link isn't going to be scared off. The fact it takes Ghirahim until the very end of the game to realise this is the perfect indicator that he's remained completely static for the whole story.

One last quote to drive this point home. The next thing Ghirahim says is "For you, boy, I’ve prepared a most appropriate and humiliating death. I even have a pet name for it—I call it the endless plunge! First, I will take my time bludgeoning you, and when I grow bored of it, I will drive you to the edge and deliver a last strike and send you falling to your doom! I’ll delight in casting your body into this pit and snuffing out the flame of your life! Your broken body will serve as a fine sustenance for the demon king!"

So this guy who's 'totally lost his cool' is calmly explaining in detail what he's going to do to Link (which is a method slow and complex enough to show he's not enraged in the way you suggest) and he even states outright that he's going to take his time and wait until he's bored before he does the thing you seem to think he's so furiously intent on doing. Ghirahim doesn't lose his cool, dude. He gets annoyed for a moment and then he's right back to the way he has been the whole game. Even in the fight itself, it's the same slow-paced affair as his other fights, with Ghirahim telegraphing his attacks for four seconds before doing anything. If he really lost his cool he'd be aggressively pressing the attack constantly, trying to tear Link to shreds and forcing you onto the defensive. That doesn't happen because Ghirahim doesn't have any kind of arc.

Second, even if Ghirahim did completely lose his cool at the very end, that still wouldn't be an arc, let alone an "excellent" one. Do you honestly think one single scene constitutes a character arc? That a character can remain fixed for the entire story only to suddenly be entirely different at the very end with no development towards that point? I don't have any disagreement with you on the general notion that seeing a character gradually lose everything until they're nothing but a desperate, near-feral mess lashing out in anger or fear or hatred can be interesting and engaging, but Ghirahim is absolutely not an example of this.

Boy I'm not remembering this right.

In my mind, he really did lose his cool and stuff. I absolutely remember his totally and completely losing it. I also remember him losing biits and pieces of his saneness every encounter, but that too II believe is mistaken.

Well, I played it when I was like 12, so I suppose my memory does deceive me