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California Chick-Fil-A Surprise

Kirino

leslie/draco
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
I've said what I needed to in this thread and I'm glad my unpopular personal opinion has inspired some passionate debate. The majority of users on this forum are moderate, leaning slightly left and naturally I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, I was merely stating my own. I've been here long enough to know that it would not be welcomed without a fair amount of debate and repudiation.

One's personal background influences their outlook on life-social status, religion, upbringing-all these things shape who we are. I wouldn't have stated something if I didn't have good reason and experience to defend it. I've already maintained that I'm not condemning gay marriage; I don't have anything against homosexuals. There was a thread awhile back, "Would you vote for a homosexual president?" and I responded Yes because that doesn't bother me.

I'm not supporting stereotypical gender spheres either. What I stated was merely exemplary. If you think I'm being sexist, think again. Gender does not determine one's personal merit. Women have played an important role in my life and the women in my family certainly have been gentler and more rational than their male counterparts. I recognize the growing importance of women in the workplace as well, recently overtaking males in general as well as many important fields.

I briefly wanted to touch upon the topic of families with single parents. Yes, they are families. For a family to form and children to be born, there must be parents of both genders and if one is deceased or otherwise departed, the family still holds. Are a man and a woman without children a family as well? Sure. I'll use definitions courtesy of dictionary.com for support a basic social unit consisting of parents and their children, considered as a group, whether dwelling together or not: the traditional family. a social unit consisting of one or more adults together with the children they care for: a single-parent family.

The second definition raises the question, why isn't a homosexual couple a family? Love is love no matter who's involved. Love is universal. I couldn't agree more and don't condone civil unions. That said, I'm a moderate conservative who supports the traditional family. It's been awhile since I've stated my political views on this forum-not since the 2012 Presidential Election thread-but my notions are hardly unique. A large percentage of people identify themselves as conservatives. In fact, an even larger number than liberals. I'm familiar with the popular views espoused on this forum. The general gist is that people should be allowed to do as they please. Their expressions are protected by the Constitution, etc. "Should abortion be allowed?" Yes. It exhausts me that contrary opinions, however, are not accepted and trampled upon until they conform.

My post isn't meant to change your views and I've researched my position sufficiently to know its merits. Some clarification and further explanation was in order though.
So, what I'm hearing is: You just brought up definitions that show gay couples are families, and how everyone should be allowed to choose, yet you don't think a gay couple is a family, and don't support gay marriage? Or am I missing something?
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
So, what I'm hearing is: You just brought up definitions that show gay couples are families, and how everyone should be allowed to choose, yet you don't think a gay couple is a family, and don't support gay marriage? Or am I missing something?
If ALIT should be allowed to choose, shouldn't he be able to say that gay couples aren't families to him?
 

Kirino

leslie/draco
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
If ALIT should be allowed to choose, shouldn't he be able to say that gay couples aren't families to him?
Of course. I'm just saying that everyone having the right to choose and gay people not being allowed to marry contradict each other.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Location
'Murica
I briefly wanted to touch upon the topic of families with single parents. Yes, they are families. For a family to form and children to be born, there must be parents of both genders and if one is deceased or otherwise departed, the family still holds. Are a man and a woman without children a family as well? Sure. I'll use definitions courtesy of dictionary.com for support a basic social unit consisting of parents and their children, considered as a group, whether dwelling together or not: the traditional family. a social unit consisting of one or more adults together with the children they care for: a single-parent family.
I'm absolutely fine with your opinion, but you're still saying that a family must be a man and a woman; it doesn't even say that in the definition you provided. Two people without children? A family- regardless of gender. But let's say you need children to be considered a family, gay couples can easily remedy that with adoption.

There's just no way to objectively say what a family is, on both our parts.

Oh and I'd like to point out one more thing. While the way you were raised certainly has its merits, I'd say it doesn't dictate your opinion completely. You'd probably think that I'm surrounded by a gay-loving liberal family, but I my father is a Catholic deacon who is completely against gay marriage. My support towards gay marriage doesn't stem from some cute little teenage rebellion towards my father, it comes from my heart.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
I have seen that video cited multiple times. I have seen the video. It is interesting and proves that this issue is so much more complex than either side wants to make it. It made me think more about it. I still don't have all the answers, of course, but I still stand firm in my position.

Hate speech? Animosity? ...You know, this is what I am so sick of when it comes to this LGBT movement; people, like you, insulting anyone, and I mean anyone who opposes same-sex marriage, and NO this does not define EVERYONE of the LGBT movement, just people like you. They call me a hatemongering, bigoted, ignorant, irrational, animosity-filled, close-minded, intolerant, misinformed, evil person when you have never met me in your life before! I know gay people and there those a really like. And then there are those who are just annoying. Just like any heterosexual person could be. I do not hate people! You have absolute ignorance of my character and my full view of the situation. How dare you! How in the world dare you be so hypocritical! You said clearly, "Ultimately, intolerance will be our downfall." I concur; you're complete intolerance of my view will be our downfall. Quit stereotyping me and placing me in some category of a hate group!

What I said was not hate speech. What I said before is not "hate speech". What I've said after has not been hate speech! Even now as I lecture you're complete intolerance and hypocrisy, I do not hate you. However I am absolutely sick of this unfounded vitriol.
Feels pretty bad to be judged by people who don't know you just because of one little part of who you are, huh?
 

Agent Spaghetti

Advanced Noodle
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Location
The Pasta Kingdom.
Feels pretty bad to be judged by people who don't know you just because of one little part of who you are, huh?
Are you kidding me? You are judging my character! I will not judge a homosexual's character based upon his sexual orientation! I judge them based upon who they are, their personality, their works, my experience with them. I judge them like I'd judge any other person.

You continue to be ignorant and stereotypical. You are wrong here. Admit it.
 
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Joined
Oct 26, 2012
First off, I'm a little disappointed my comment was deleted. There was absolutely no good reason to do so. I suppose I'll just have to say what I said before:

Now you say it's not going anywhere. Well I wouldn't be so sure. In Rome the exact same thing happened: homosexuality was accepted as fine and normal. Rome, due to moral decay and corruption, grew weak and collapsed, leading to the Dark Age which, if you will, reset culture. Over a millennium later we are right back there; homosexuality is being accepted as fine and normal. The United States (and other nations), due to moral decay and corruption, are growing weak. It is a very real possibility that we will collapse and enter into another Dark Age, resetting culture again. In that case, the "homosexual culture" will be going somewhere. Not that I desire a collapse, but...I wouldn't be so sure that this culture isn't "going anywhere".

Also you suggest that I "ignore" this. It is not right for one to ignore what they perceive to be a problem. As Gandalf the Grey so perfectly put it, "We can remain blind, but it will not be ignoring us; that I can promise you."
What were you saying again about judging homosexuals individually based on character instead of as an entire group of people?
 
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Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Are you kidding me? You are judging my character! I will not judge a homosexual's character based upon his sexual orientation! I judge them based upon who they are, their personality, their works, my experience with them. I judge them like I'd judge any other person.

You continue to be ignorant and stereotypical. You are wrong here. Admit it.
What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Using ad hominem attacks aren't going to solve the problem. I would take personal qualms elsewhere (i.e. PM or VM)
 

Agent Spaghetti

Advanced Noodle
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Location
The Pasta Kingdom.
What were you saying again about judging homosexuals individually based on character instead of as an entire group of people?
Could you please be a little less insinuating? Be frank; what in my comment implies me judging homosexuals' characters?

And no, I am not a bigot.

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Using ad hominem attacks aren't going to solve the problem. I would take personal qualms elsewhere (i.e. PM or VM)
It's relevant in the aspect that much of the arguments made against those who support gay marriage are often unfounded and hypocritical. People should know that. At this point, however, you are correct, this discussion does not belong here. I'll VM.
 

Vanessa28

Angel of Darkness
Staff member
ZD Legend
Administrator
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Location
Yahtzee, Supernatural
Gender
Angel of Darkness
Can you guys please continue without calling each other names? We're all different and our opinions differ too so please don't lower yourself by going into the attack mode. Thanks
 

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