Breath of the Wild Breath of The Wild is bad for the fanbase.

[Dio]

I had a look on a Mario forum the other day. I just wanted to see what kind of things were discussed on games that have hardly any stories. I cant say discussions were looking good and healthy over there.

I'm just thinking that these forums aren't really a hive of activity right now. Especially compared to after SS's release where discussions seemed to be going on for ages. The culprit behind activity decline is of course BoTW. It's a game that brings little to the table in terms of discussion. It has a limited story, no indication of placement in the timeline and seems to disregard established canon. It is also set so far in the future its effect on other games and theirs on it is almost irrelevant.

Unlike most Zeldas where story is at the forefront. BoTW is very much a gameplay game with story being such a minor thing in comparison to the other activities offered that have nothing to do with it. This means the usual fan activities such as theorising are not really going on very much. There seems to be fatigue when it comes to theorising because Nintendo seems to give less and less regard for lore as they put out more games. Fans who in the past have put much effort into theorising (only to have Nintendo give the real explanation usually an underwhelming one) have become tired of coming up with better ideas than the big N. There is little to discuss and little up for debate apart from whether you like certain gameplay mechanics or not and that's just boring after a while.

It's gonna be another 5 years before we get more Zelda. Some of us might not even make it, like dear Axle who never got to see BoTW. You think Breath will still create interesting discussion nearer to that time?

 

[Spirit]

Sounds like i should go over to that Mario forum and thread it to within an inch of its life.

I make a lot of threads on this site, and ive made a lot for BotW but i dont think there's much more i can say about it and its only been a few month. I could probably make more threads for WW and TP with ease, BotW not so much.

The theory, the story, the world, the characters dont lend themselves to deep discussion like previous games do. The story feels too short and the game too big. Like dropping a stone into an ocean, its not enough.

There will be conversation when the second dlc pack releases but many people wont play it so conversation will be limited. I also dont see it fixing anything of the story, deepening the lore or even adding new characters so i really doubt conversation on the dlc will amount to much.

SS made a mess of things, TFH meant nothing to the series, the series didnt need ALBW and nintendo dont seem bothered with continuing beyond ST.
So many recent games have felt as if theyve meant less and less to the series and BotW takes that final step of being so far removed that it doesnt link or mean much of anything which is a damn shame.

Coupled with the world being empty, the story being basic and boring, the characters largely being wasted and BotW doesnt lend itself much to many interesting conversations which is a damn shame.

I looked so hard for more lore and reason behind BotW but there just wasnt anything. So yeah, i dont think BotW had been a healthy pill for the community as far as talking about it goes.

"Hey, did you play BotW?"
"Yeah, was good"
"..."
"..."
"... so, how about that new Mario game? His hat has eyes."

 

[Azure Sage]

It's hard to say, to be honest. I've never involved myself in thinking or theorizing about Zelda lore in the past. Actually, BotW has been the first time I ever really tried thinking in any capacity about how it ties into other games. I've been involved in a handful of discussions about it with @The Hero of Legend on Discord, but it's true that I haven't seen much of it take place on these forums (I wouldn't know about other forums, these are the only forums I use).

 

[Mido]

I agree with your post in a general sense. A good chunk of Zelda discussion is rooted in story, as exemplified by the strong fan pastime of timeline theorizing. From my perspective in the big picture, discussion on that front seems to have somewhat stalled since Hyrule Historia's release with an official timeline. Yet it still hasnt totally destroyed discussion on that front with many debating the merits of the timeline while also still continuing discussion on newer releases and where they will end up. BOTW may have not helped discussion in a story-sense, but I don't think it's outright stifiled it either.

As far as gameplay goes, BOTW has much to discuss, and on these forums we have discussed combat, exploration, and so forth; debating over the merits of the numerous facets of gameplay offered in the game. This, in a big picture sense, still demonstrates that BOTW still harbors a stopping power for discourse. Whether discussion on these matters gets monotonous, I can't quite wager it, partly because I haven't finished the game.

Pulling back to story for a moment, after reading many posts lately, specifically most of Cfrock's, it hit me. As far as story is concerned, I think BOTW's trailer set my expectations too high. From the trailer, I assumed we were going to get a grand epic, taking place in one of the series's best, if not the best overworld. The champions are great characters, with strong personalities and contrast between each other, but we unfortunately do not get much exposure to them as far as I know (correct me of I'm wrong on that). Instead, BOTW takes the route of games like Destiny where the story is weak, but through memories and the horrid grimoire card system, respectively, one can learn more about the events from 100 years ago. BOTW does have the excuse that because Zelda is an established franchise, most players have an understanding of the basic structure of the story. Destiny, as a new franchise, did not have that luxury, and as such proved underwhelming, especially at launch.

My opinion on BOTW's story aside, I think BOTW still provides strong discussion, even if it's not necessarily rooted strongly in story here. At the same time, discussion on such matters still lingers, as many dedicated fans still partake in timeline discussion. Perhaps in the case of these forums, the matter might be indication that our story discussion is not as strong as it once was, but I think that mainly is rooted in the lower activity at this time. I don't think this game is bad for the fan base per se, but I can certainly see that in some respects hasn't helped in full.

Sounds like i should go over to that Mario forum and thread it to within an inch of its life.

That is a dangerous game to play. What if they have a thread emperor themselves? Wouldn't that be a declaration of war?

 

[misskitten]

Personally I've had the opposite experience. I've engaged more in discussions about BotW than any of the other Zelda titles. Maybe because I wasn't around for many of the other releases, but also because it's the game I've engaged myself in the most. Theory isn't usually my thing, but I've actually been interested in knowing which timeline this game is supposed to be part of. It's still the place on the forum I check first, it's the place I participate the most, and I'm usually more of a general discussions kind of girl. *shugs*

 

[the8thark]

@Deus I respectfully disagree with you.

There has been a lot of BotW chat here. Look at this area of the forums. There's many many topics here. A good number were created post game launch, like this one.
People are talking about the story. The whole story in memories thing was a hot topic a while back. Some liked it, others did not.
The weapons breaking is also a hot polarising topic discussed everywhere.
There is a lot to theorise about BotW. You just have to think up the questions yourself. It's not handed to you on a silver platter to discuss, like previous Zelda games have done.
Yes BotW will create interesting discussion when the next game is announced. People will try to compare the new game to BotW.

Games with little in the way of story are not talked up that much pre-release. Also SMO has had little hard info shared about it so there is little to talk about. Post E3, you'll see a lot more SMO talk around.

What you are talking about is burnout. BotW is so large of a game that when many people finish it, they want a total break from it as they've played it for so long. So they stop chatting about it for a while. It's not people don't want to chat about BotW. They just need a break, and later on they will chat about BotW some more.

Also when someone else copies your topic as a new topic to steal your thunder, that also kills your want to chat about the game too. (I've personally experienced it and can't say I was happy when it happened).

 

[DarkestLink]

When has story ever been at the forefront? The story has always been minimal at best with games like TP and SS.

 

[Aku]

I would also have to respectfully disagree. There is A Lot to talk about, but like the8thark said, you got to go and find the stuff, it's even in the way the game is structured.

- Stuff about the Shiekah. They seem to be the eminant builders of extremely advanced technology, while it seems that everyone else stays (or goes back to) the medieval stage. Also the ugly split they had in their group, one that created an evil faction that now serves Ganon.

- Stuff about Ganon/Calamity Ganon/Beast Ganon, and the stuff it says about him in the Compendium (like it saying that 'Beast Ganon' is the true/original form.) Nobody discussing that at length even though it is just as game changing as him being a incarnation of a demon's king's hate.

-Loads of stuff about where this fits in the timeline. This is one I've seen lots of people talking about, because it was not handed to you on a platter. There is some talk now about it being a possible convergence, with a bit of Dragon Break flavoring.

And this is the stuff I came up with just offhand.

 

[Ronin]

An unnecessary concern. Breath of the Wild might have been light on story, but I doubt that Nintendo will be skimping out on that in the next game. For one thing, with a new engine, they can put more of a focus on the story and hopefully cut development time down to 4 years tops. Unless they want to focus more on the "create your own adventure" template a la the Elder Scrolls series, BotW was a step in the right direction whereas Skyward Sword was a regression. What story the game had was largely memorable, but most people found the ending to be unsatisfactory (I'm sure part of it went into the DLC), and the characters could have been fleshed out a bit better. Maybe the next game will focus on Link and Zelda's restoration of Hyrule?

 

[Wiggum]

Let me preface this by saying I respect those of you who want a good story. I too enjoy a good story. But I'm the kind of person who separates the game from the story. When I'm playing a game, I want to play the game, not be told a story. Sure, a bit here or there, yah, that's fine. But if I wanted a story, I'd read a book or watch a movie. So, what I'm saying is the story is meaningless for ME when playing the game.

For any/all Zelda games, I talk to all kinds of people. I'm sure you all do as well. When I see that I'm getting info a side quest, or helpful info about what to do in the game, I'm all ears. However, as soon as I realize I'm getting a history lesson, or backstory, or whatever... I can't mash A/B fast enough to get done with the dialog. Thank God too for the "skip" function when it's available.

In case any of you care to know more about me and WHY I feel that way ... it's simple. It doesn't matter one bit what someone tells me about why this happened, or when that happened, or who caused it ... or what's happened since. My "role" in the game is to get missions done - be it main quests, side quests, fetches, or whatever. I'm not going to alter what I do based on the story ... and the story has no bearing on how I play.

it's not like I'm gonna hear about how Ganon destroyed Hyrule 100 years ago and that Zelda is trapped in the castle ... and then decide "OMG! Ganon is such an evil being. I must rush to Zelda's aid and save her!". No, not a chance. I'm already going to do that before I ever start the game ... because THAT is what the game requires!!! Also, when the story is something like "Zelda can't hold him off much longer, you must hurry!" ... but then you have 900 Koroks to find ... 120 shrines to find/unlock ... 76 side quests to complete ... a compendium to fill up ... etc etc etc ... how is that promoting "urgency"? Not to mention that the people of Hateno are just going about their life as usual, as if everything is fine ... same with the Gorons ... Same with the Rito ... same with the Zora. None of them are running around freaking out telling Link "DUDE! You better hurry the hell up before all of us die because of Ganon!!!" Again, NO urgency in the game ... only in this "story" that doesn't even really make sense with respect to the playing of the game.

Fact is, it doesn't. In fact, to ME, having all those OTHER things to do that "waste time" with respect to the main story line ... Well, that just takes away from the story, and gives it even less meaning since it proves that urgency isn't even an issue.

Don't get me wrong ... I get that Zelda is not a game on a time (other than what I saw in MM when I played it) ... and they want you to be able to enjoy the game at your own pace. I respect that, and honestly would NOT play the game if it was on a timer. My point here is, don't make the game story an "urgent" one if it's in fact NOT urgent at all. Just tell us that Zelda has been in the castle for 100 years holding Ganon at bay, and will continue to do so for however long it takes ... BUT, Hyrule will never be able to return to its full glory as long as Ganon is there, and his blight is everywhere across the land. Therefore, it's up to you YOU/LINK to help Zelda, and end this tragedy. Yes, take your time. Build up your strength. Free the divine beasts so they can help you. Help the people of each race with side quests. Find the koroks and upgrade your inventory ... so on and so forth. THAT is what the GAMEPLAY is about in this game, so make the story fit the gameplay. It wouldn't take away from the "backstory" to do that. That detail of "urgency" vs. "take your time" wouldn't change a thing with respect to the "story" Nintendo chose for this game.

I don't know ... maybe I'm just a grumpy old man who so easily sees the flaws in how the story and gameplay "fit" together. Then again, maybe I'm 100% right and Nintendo should be doing a MUCH better job with making the stories work with the gameplay ... and better yet, follow the timelines with some accuracy if they want their followers to really get fully invested in this epic tale of good and evil.

 

[Dio]

@Deus I respectfully disagree with you.

There has been a lot of BotW chat here. Look at this area of the forums. There's many many topics here. A good number were created post game launch, like this one.
People are talking about the story. The whole story in memories thing was a hot topic a while back. Some liked it, others did not.
The weapons breaking is also a hot polarising topic discussed everywhere.
There is a lot to theorise about BotW. You just have to think up the questions yourself. It's not handed to you on a silver platter to discuss, like previous Zelda games have done.
Yes BotW will create interesting discussion when the next game is announced. People will try to compare the new game to BotW.

Games with little in the way of story are not talked up that much pre-release. Also SMO has had little hard info shared about it so there is little to talk about. Post E3, you'll see a lot more SMO talk around.

What you are talking about is burnout. BotW is so large of a game that when many people finish it, they want a total break from it as they've played it for so long. So they stop chatting about it for a while. It's not people don't want to chat about BotW. They just need a break, and later on they will chat about BotW some more.

Also when someone else copies your topic as a new topic to steal your thunder, that also kills your want to chat about the game too. (I've personally experienced it and can't say I was happy when it happened).

Yes there has been discussion but what I'm saying is that discussion has been exhausted because there is little left to talk about and less to talk about this time than has been the case with other story focussed games rather than people just not wanting to talk about anything to do with BoTW anymore.

When has story ever been at the forefront? The story has always been minimal at best with games like TP and SS.

They have nearly always been story focussed with few exceptions, Zelda 1 for instance had hardly any story. I do not understand how anyone can think otherwise especially with the 3D titles. Story is usually given at the beginning to get the player interested. After completing dungeons the games use the story to entice the player to continue. More story is given as the reward for the struggle. In SS there is over 100 minutes of cutscenes. Everything you do is for the story apart from finding collectables in the overworld.

 

[DragonEleven]

I think it's more of a case of intensive discussion over a short period of time, rather than casual discussion over a longer period of time... everything that can be discussed seems to have been covered extensively already, so there's not really anything else to say without getting repetitive.
Once the timeline discussion is settled, that should open up further discussions, but we can't move that on until we get additional information... hopefully that will either come with the DLC, or Nintendo will reveal it elsewhere.... until then it's just a waiting game.

 

[DarkestLink]

They have nearly always been story focussed with few exceptions, Zelda 1 for instance had hardly any story. I do not understand how anyone can think otherwise especially with the 3D titles. Story is usually given at the beginning to get the player interested. After completing dungeons the games use the story to entice the player to continue. More story is given as the reward for the struggle. In SS there is over 100 minutes of cutscenes. Everything you do is for the story apart from finding collectables in the overworld.

If you want a story focused game, try something like Xenoblade Chronicles. And then come back and say Zelda is story focused.

 

[Dio]

If you want a story focused game, try something like Xenoblade Chronicles. And then come back and say Zelda is story focused.

I dont need to play XC itself. I've played the Witcher 3 which is a story focussed game just like Skyward Sword. The only difference is it tells a story which is actually good. And not just for a video game. It's just a plain good story. Period.

Zelda is still story focussed. Just because the stories are of a lower quality than that of The Witcher or Xenoblade, does not lessen that focus.

 

[YIGAhim]

Breath of The Wild's controversy is fuel enough for a long time, just like Skyward Sword (It's a great game, c'mon).

Sure, a lot about a lot has been said, but there's still so much more to say!