Spoiler Breath of the Wild in the Child Timeline?!

[Moblinking5000]

Exactly, they're not relevant; that's why the Gerudo aren't in any other DT games.

ZE actually says there's two factions of Zora in the DT; one that remains peaceful, and one that becomes monsters. And while the Zora in BotW are descended from the ones that had Ruto as one of them, we know that they only came to Hyrule 10,000 years prior in BotW, meaning that they must have left Hyrule after OoT in whatever timeline BotW comes in regardless of your belief on which one it is. Labrynna in the DT is the only place outside of Hyrule confirmed to have Zora, so you must rely on speculation if you want to say that there were Zoras elsewhere on the other two timelines.

Yes, Ganon died in the DT; so what, though? He was also killed in TWW(obliterated by the Triforce, no less) and in TP(afterwards he was reincarnated as a new Ganon) as well, and due to him being reincarnated in FSA(CaC says that (Calamity) Ganon(dorf) in the BotW era is the same guy as Ganon I) and erased by the Triforce in TWW, the DT is the best bet out of the three. Also, we know that sprinkling Link's blood isn't the only way he can be revived, as we've seen other methods of revival, like in OoX. Even if that was the only way for him to be revived by AoL, it's a better bet than the other two timelines, where Ganon I is gone for good. Ganondorf also decided to transform in OoT, but he transformed back when being sealed by the sages.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Adding to what @Moblinking5000 has pointed out so far, saying Ganon died at the end of the Downfall Timeline is a mute point, the fact that Calamity Ganon is seperated from any physical body trumps whether he has a body or not, because obviously this form of him has transcended bodily limitations. But even if you want to hold that his death holds significance, he has died numerous times on the Downfall Timeline yet he never ceases to return somehow.

 

[TheHeroofTime]

Child Timeline still makes the most sense. It's the world that is most geographically, historically, and lore-wise consistent with Breath of the Wild.

Plus, Nintendo really doesn't seem to care about the Downfall Timeline. They seem to have created it for the sole purpose of creating a place for the games they didn't know what to do with.

Lastly, I don't know where you are getting this idea that the Zora came to Hyrule 10,000 years ago. Is it in Masterworks/Creating a Champion?

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Child Timeline still makes the most sense. It's the world that is most geographically, historically, and lore-wise consistent with Breath of the Wild.

How is it historically and lore-wise consistent? There is way more in these regards on the Downfall Timeline, barring geography. But geographically very few games ever are consistent, so I don't consider that any real proof pointing towards any timeline.

 

[Moblinking5000]

So, in the history and lore of the CT, Ganon is revived time and time again, and there's a golden age following an era of decline? Yeah, doesn't sound like the DT or BotW to me.

So Nintendo doesn't care about the DT...and yet every game released after the unveiling of the official timeline is placed there?

Zora's Domain in BotW is different from the one in OoT. One of the monuments said that this ZD was founded 10,000 years ago, and ZD is the home of the Zora. Without a home, where would the Zoras live in Hyrule? Pretty implicit that were was a long period of no Zora in Hyrule(atleast uncivilized Zora). It also implies that there was a time period where there was no ZD in Hyrule, and AoL fits that if the Zora in those games are monsters.

 

[TheHeroofTime]

1) There are no references to the Sheikah in the Downfall Timeline. Yes, it is assumed that Impa is always a Sheikah, but that isn't necessarily true.
2) The Temple of Time doesn't exist at all in the Downfall Timeline. It plays a key part in both the Child Timeline and Breath of the Wild.
3) While it is technically possible that Ganondorf could exist in the Downfall Timeline, he doesn't. We don't see him anywhere. We do, however, see him in Twilight Princess. Where he dies. Do you know where we see a Ganondorf with nearly the exact same jewel on his forehead? A dead Ganondorf? With a hand gripping the exact same spot where he was impaled twice? In the trailer for Breath of the Wild 2.
4) Nintendo might care about A Link to the Past, enough to make a sequel, and they might care enough about Link's Awakening to make a remake, but they haven't continued the story of the Downfall Timeline other than by sequels and remakes that play it pretty safe. It is the designated zone of 2D games, the ones that aren't as popular nowadays.
5) The Downfall timeline should not exist. The Child and Adult timelines are based on a time split at the end of Ocarina of Time, but there is no reason for the Downfall timeline to exist. It is literally just an alternate history, which defeats the point of having an actual timeline in the first place. The Downfall timeline is the place where Nintendo put the games they didn't think fit into the main storyline branching from Ocarina of Time.
6) Breath of the Wild Zora's Domain is in the same place it always has been: Lanayru province, southeast of Death Mountain. Whether or not they rebuilt it 10,000 years ago doesn't matter. Even if, for a time, the Zora did not live in the Lanayru region, that doesn't mean that they left Hyrule. There's no connection between those two things. They could have had a different home. 10,000 years is more than enough time to move the hub of your civilization around several times without leaving the kingdom.
7)

So, in the history and lore of the CT, Ganon is revived time and time again, and there's a golden age followed an era of decline? Yeah, doesn't sound like the DT or BotW to me.

Does to me. Calamity Ganon is revived time and time again, and after each period of decline there is a Golden Age. Sounds very much like the Child Timeline and Breath of the Wild are in the same timeline.

For the record, I think that it's great that there are varying opinions on this, but until I see something really big to convince me that it could be anything other than the Child Timeline, this is the hill I will fight and die on.

 

[Moblinking5000]

1. It has always been confirmed that Impa is a Sheikah in the games she's in when relevant. You would need proof to say that the pattern doesn't exist when evidence says otherwise.

2. How do you know the ToT doesn't exist in DT? There's nothing saying that it was destroyed. It is, however, destroyed in the CT; TP Link has to go back in time to visit it.

3. It can't be TP Ganondorf though, as he is reincarnated as a new Ganon in FSA. Also, TP Ganondorf has pointed ears, wheras BotW2 Ganondorf has round ears, which only makes sense in the DT, as Ganondorf had only round ears in his human form in that timeline; he gained pointy ears in TWW and TP, but not on the DT. In OoT3D, he still has round ears, even in the future era.

4. Tri Force Heroes is also on the DT.

5. It exists whether you want it to or not. It also makes sense for it to exist because OoT was made to be a prequel to ALttP as said in interviews, but TP and TWW prevent that from happening.

6. Geography isn't a good indicator of timeline placement. And there's a monument saying that ZD was built/created 10,000 years ago in a way that implies it's a different one. I'll try to find it if you like.

7. But Ganon being revived again and again and there being a period of decline followed by a golden era is what happens on the DT, not the CT. On the CT, Ganon is killed, and then reincarnated as a different one and Hyrule is doing pretty well for itself. While Hyrule faces some trouble in TP and FSA, it never gets anywhere near as bad as in the DT, and most citizens don't seem to notice what's going on even.

 

[LinktheHauntedHero]

The line in Japanese uses ''Tasogare'' in the Twilight line. Tasogare is used to refer to other things in Zelda such as the SR in the backstory of ALttP, and I believe that ''Kage'' was the word used to refer to the Twilight in TP. Without further context, using the Ceremony as evidence isn't a good idea.

I personally place BotW on the DT, because:

A. The sages from OoT are remembered,

B. Hyrule, the Land of the Gods, still exists.

Now, we know that both of these are true in the world that BotW takes place in. However, if placed in the CT, A can't be true(and don't give me that whole, ''Link told everyone what happened'' thing, because the HH says he wasn't remembered, and the JP intro of MM even says that he ''faded from legend''), as the sages did not awaken. If BotW is on the AT, B can't be true, as Hyrule is erased according to the JP version of TWW, and we know this is Old Hyrule due to things like the Master Sword existing and the Temple of Time being called the ''birth place of Hyrule''. Therefore, by process of elimination, the DT is the only one that fits, IMO. There's other evidence for a DT(Ganon having no real wits about him according to CaC, This being Ganondorf I according to CaC, Ganondorf having round ears in the BotW sequel trailer, the Hylian Alphabet being the same as the one that we see in ALBW, The cycle of there being a golden era follwed by an age of decline being present in BotW and its backstory, etc.) but the above is the best case as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a couple topics where I elaborate further if you're interested: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...of-botw-and-my-conclusion.60315/#post-1100907 and https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...d-in-regards-to-the-placement-for-botw.68621/



Spirit: You putting too much stock into the ''Era of Myth'' wording. The Triforce is considered a myth in the backstory of ALttP, yet we see it with our own eyes at the end of the game. Many things in the games have been called legends and myths. That coupled with the fact that BotW is confirmed to be canon and to be at the end of one of the branches in an interview is indicative of the ''Era of Myth'' being flavour text until we have reason to believe otherwise.

Sorry but this makes no sense to me...It can only be in the Child Timeline (the sages were never forgotten, Link surely told people and remember that the Divine Beasts were built 10,000 years prior [shortly after FSA] and were named after the sages. Second, Hyrule does not exist in the DT, or at least not in its true form. Hyrule must exist in its TRUE and ORIGINAL form, which is not the case in the DT. In fact, Hyrule was destroyed (along with the Gorons, who went extinct, the Zoras were enemies, and its pretty clear that all the Gerudo straight up died out), and none of their cities even exist (they only remain existing in the Child Timeline)..

 

[TheHeroofTime]

I might as well just articulate my theory on the trail of events. First of all, I agree with pretty much everything that @SuperMario101yt just said, except for the fact that the sages weren't awoken in the Child Timeline, unless that occurred after the events seen in game. Second of all, I'm going to try and list how I see events in chronological order:

1. Link defeats Ganon and returns to the point before Ganondorf's invasion. He warns Princess Zelda of the impending threat, essentially creating the Child Timeline. He then leaves Hyrule in search of Navi.
2. At some point, Ganondorf leads an invasion of Hyrule in an attempt to follow on his original plan. Forewarned, the kingdom repels the invasion, captures and tries Ganondorf, finally sentencing him to execution at the hands of the sages.
3. In a "divine prank," Ganondorf is chosen by the Triforce of Power and is able to survive his execution, killing one of the sages before being banished to the Twilight. He invests his magical power in Zant, biding his time until he can return triumphant to the Light World.
4. Ganondorf's plan to invade Hyrule once again fails, and this time, he is finally laid to rest by the Hero and the vengeful suicide of his minion Zant, to whose life force he was connected.
5. In order to prevent Ganondorf from rising again, his corpse is sealed.
6. Somehow, a new Ganondorf is born into the Gerudo, transforms into the Demon King, and is slain by the four Links. This is not the same Ganondorf, nor does he have the same consciousness. This is canon lore, confirmed by Hyrule Historia.
7. Over time, Ganon rises again; not as a sentient being, but as a creation of pure malice. The sealed corpse of Ganondorf has become a source of malice, and the incarnation of this malice is Calamity Ganon. The seal exists to prevent the full wrath of his hatred from spewing forth and resurrecting the true power of the Demon King.
8. To combat this new, ghostly incarnation of Ganon known as the Calamity, the Divine Beasts are created along with the Guardians. They aid the hero and the princess in destroying the first incarnation of Calamity Ganon.
9. Over the next 10,000 years, the malice originating from Ganondorf's corpse reforms into a new Calamity, a cunning one that succeeds in the destruction of Hyrule. The current Princess Zelda seals him away until the recovering Link can return to help her destroy Calamity Ganon's incarnation. Upon his return, Calamity Ganon is destroyed, but the true threat, the sealed corpse of Ganondorf, remains hidden.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

1) There are no references to the Sheikah in the Downfall Timeline. Yes, it is assumed that Impa is always a Sheikah, but that isn't necessarily true.

As I mentioned in one of our previous debates, the fact that Impa was retconned as a Sheikah would mean that her appearence later in the Downfall Timeline confirms that tribe exists still, and she is part of it. Impa is always a Sheikah name in origin, and her role as Princess Zelda's attendant parallels that of past versions of the character chronologically. Basically, if Nintendo wants you to think of Impa in modern games as a Sheikah, the same must also be true of past versions of the character too.

2) The Temple of Time doesn't exist at all in the Downfall Timeline. It plays a key part in both the Child Timeline and Breath of the Wild

The Temple of Time actually does exist in the Downfall Timeline just as it exists in Twilight Princess: in ruins deep within the Lost Woods. This is not evidence indicitive of one timeline or the other.

3) While it is technically possible that Ganondorf could exist in the Downfall Timeline, he doesn't. We don't see him anywhere. We do, however, see him in Twilight Princess. Where he dies. Do you know where we see a Ganondorf with nearly the exact same jewel on his forehead? A dead Ganondorf? With a hand gripping the exact same spot where he was impaled twice? In the trailer for Breath of the Wild 2.

Every timeline has one thing in common, Ganondorf starts out as a Gerudo in some variation of the events of Ocarina of Time. As has already been pointed out, the numerous attacks of an inhuman form of Ganondorf only seem likely on the Downfall Timeline, nowhere else.

I'll give you that it looks like he has a hole in his chest similar to where he was impaled in Twilight Princess, but any evidence from Breath of the Wild 2, an unreleased game still in development, remains to be seen, and isn't substantial enough at this moment in time.

4) Nintendo might care about A Link to the Past, enough to make a sequel, and they might care enough about Link's Awakening to make a remake, but they haven't continued the story of the Downfall Timeline other than by sequels and remakes that play it pretty safe. It is the designated zone of 2D games, the ones that aren't as popular nowadays.

A Link Between Worlds was a very popular game, and since I obviously think Breath of the Wild is most likely to take place on the Downfall Timeline, I don't think Nintendo doesn't care about this section of the timeline. It has at least gotten 2 new games definitevely, whereas the Child Timeline hasn't gotten a new game since Twilight Princess, and that was 14 years ago.

5) The Downfall timeline should not exist. The Child and Adult timelines are based on a time split at the end of Ocarina of Time, but there is no reason for the Downfall timeline to exist. It is literally just an alternate history, which defeats the point of having an actual timeline in the first place. The Downfall timeline is the place where Nintendo put the games they didn't think fit into the main storyline branching from Ocarina of Time.

I'm going to have to agree with Moblinking here, it exists whether you want it to or not. Plus, this timeline is actually one of the more well developed ones, even if it's existence was put together as a cop out at the start of the previous decade. It makes sense though, and is a better explanation than anything I've ever seen before it, I think it's pretty intuitive and not at all impossible, because ultimately this is a fictional world which already established that multiple timelines are a possibility long before Hyrule Historia was released.

6) Breath of the Wild Zora's Domain is in the same place it always has been: Lanayru province, southeast of Death Mountain. Whether or not they rebuilt it 10,000 years ago doesn't matter. Even if, for a time, the Zora did not live in the Lanayru region, that doesn't mean that they left Hyrule. There's no connection between those two things. They could have had a different home. 10,000 years is more than enough time to move the hub of your civilization around several times without leaving the kingdom.

I still think geography isn't a good argument to bring up in a series that always moves places around, and might do so again in the distant future. But I will point out that the Lanayru Province in Twilight Princess consisted of Zora's Domain in the northeast, and Hyrule Castle in the center of the overall map, slightly southwest from the domain (the Gamecube orientation of the land is the canon one, by the way). In Breath of the Wild, the Lanayru Province is situated firmly in the east, Hyrule Castle is in it's own province designated "Central Hyrule" and there is no evidence of any water bodies that had lakes to the northeast of the castle. Instead, Death Mountain is now in the northeast, but in Twilight Princess it was almost directly east of the Castle... I think we can agree this doesn't match Twilight Princess at all. In a more broad sense we could say it matches Ocarina of Time's Hyrule if it was a lot bigger, but closer examination rules that out too if we take the monuments in Zora's Domain at face value that claim it isn't the original Domain. Additionally, Kakariko Village is nowhere near the foot of Death Mountain, plus the Temple of Time isn't in the same vicinity as Hyrule Castle.

Bottom line, geography in Zelda is wholly pointless.

Does to me. Calamity Ganon is revived time and time again, and after each period of decline there is a Golden Age. Sounds very much like the Child Timeline and Breath of the Wild are in the same timeline.

There is no indication of the Child Timeline having numerous attacks from Ganon, it simply doesn't have the history laid out for it, claiming it does is nothing short of fan-fiction with the games the Child Timeline has.

 

[TheHeroofTime]

There is no indication of the Child Timeline having numerous attacks from Ganon, it simply doesn't have the history laid out for it, claiming it does is nothing short of fan-fiction with the games the Child Timeline has.

Theorizing anything about Zelda is nothing short of fan-fiction since we don't write the series. That doesn't make it any less valid. It is fiction written by fans.

 

[MapelSerup]

I just want to point out to everyone in this debate that 10,000 years is insanely long, and plenty of time for many kinks in a timeline to be worked out. Plus, this was only the time since the last hero defeated Calamity Ganon, not just since the last game; we don’t know how long it’s been.

Take that length of time as you will. Personally, I think the only timeline BOTW can’t be in is the Adult Timeline, although I do admit the Downfall Timeline might work a bit better.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Theorizing anything about Zelda is nothing short of fan-fiction since we don't write the series. That doesn't make it any less valid. It is fiction written by fans.

There is difference between reading into things subtly laid out in the games and disregarding that to create whatever.

 

[Re-D3ad]

Now, I know all of you will disagree with me INSTANTLY. And I don't exactly have the evidence required to prove this. Except for one small, but very powerful line. Zelda, as you are in the Sacred Grounds being recognized as the champion, says "Whether Skyward Bound, Adrift in Time, or Steeped Into the Glowing Embers of Twilight." Coincidence? Can't be. If the game was in any other timeline (including all three), how come more evidence points to the Child Timeline (Mirror of Twilight, Lake Hylia (yes, it's only in the Child Timeline), Temple of Time (again, only in the Child Timeline), Castle Town (don't think I need to say it again, but only in the Child Timeline), Goron City (same as before), (yep, same thing) and Zora's Domain (also the same). In the Adult Timeline (excluding the Adult Timeline in Ocarina of Time) and the Fallen Hero Timeline (the parallel of the Adult Timeline), none of these appear. The only link to any other timeline (in this case, the Adult Timeline) is Vah Medoh, and the fact that the sages are now legend (though, they did send Ganon into the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess). Other evidence includes the general map of Hyrule and its landmarks (Bridge of Hylia, Hyrule Castle is even similar to Twilight Princess's version, and even Lon Lon Ranch (which makes no appearance in the Child Timeline and got flooded in the Adult Timeline)). I will expand on this theory later, with the "Breath of the Wild CANNOT take place in the Adult Timeline, Here's Why" theory. If you have a different opinion or more proof of this, I'd love to see it! But please have evidence if you have an opposing opinion.

To be Honest I agree with you breath of the wild has to be in the child timeline, it makes the most sense ok so in the adult timeline a flood happened correct? Well if the flood had happened Lon Lon ranch would have never been in the game since it was in the child timeline before the flood. Also many of the names of the cities were probably pasted down from generations.

 

[TheHeroofTime]

@Spiritual Mask Salesman I'm not disregarding anything laid down in the games to "create whatever." When I said that "Does to me. Calamity Ganon is revived time and time again, and after each period of decline there is a Golden Age. Sounds very much like the Child Timeline and Breath of the Wild are in the same timeline," I was responding to a statement that I had misunderstood because of a typo. I don't actually think that there's anything in the Child Timeline that evidences a continued resurrection of Ganon. I just think that it would make sense considering the ending of Twilight Princess. I also think that the tone of Breath of the Wild better matches the Child Timeline than the tone of the Downfall Timeline. Breath of the Wild makes a lot of references to the 3D titles, but there are fewer references to the 2D games, most of which are in the Downfall Timeline.

Lastly, not solid evidence, but before Twilight Princess HD came out, Eiji Aonuma (I think it was him, but it might have been another one of the producers) stated that there was some kind of connection between Twilight Princess HD and the (at the time) "new game they were developing for Wii U."