BotW2 linear and gated progression

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

This thread is so old. Any rumor about BotW 2 from 2020 I cannot take seriously. However the concept, on paper, isn't a bad one. I don't mind if in this game some things are gated behind progressing the story, akin to Skyrim, for example. Basically I want the free roam nature of BotW to be maintained, but also a more linear main quest in terms of plot that eventually leads to fighting Ganoncorpse.

It's definitely old, but we have about as much information about the game as we did when this thread was created. A developer unwilling to even reveal the title of the game for fear of spoilers does not engender much hope in me.

 

[Sentinel]

It's definitely old, but we have about as much information about the game as we did when this thread was created. A developer unwilling to even reveal the title of the game for fear of spoilers does not engender much hope in me.

It's been 5 years since the release of BotW and 3 years since the first trailer of BotW2 and we still barely know anything.
I know they are taking their time to bring the best efforts in developing the sequel as much as possible but now it is July and we still have no good information. At least title reveal would be a start. Apparently, this game will be released next year. At this rate, it's gonna be released in Fall 2023 or at the worst case, it's gonna be delayed for another year again. I dunno if I am too pessimistic but I'm starting to question it a bit.

 

[thePlinko]

It's been 5 years since the release of BotW and 3 years since the first trailer of BotW2 and we still barely know anything.
I know they are taking their time to bring the best efforts in developing the sequel as much as possible but now it is July and we still have no good information. At least title reveal would be a start. Apparently, this game will be released next year. At this rate, it's gonna be released in Fall 2023 or at the worst case, it's gonna be delayed for another year again. I dunno if I am too pessimistic but I'm starting to question it a bit.

Never have i seen a bigger opportunity to say the phrase “preaching to the choir.”

Anyway, I replied to this thread once 2 years ago, but it’s worth repeating and rephrasing: Zelda is item gated progression. Thats the identity of the franchise. Thats one of the aspects why millions of people fell in love with it, myself included. Zelda prior to SS was one of the only franchises that managed to combine open worlds with an item based progression, and usually did it really well barring the occasional TP. The only other games that even kinda do that are sandboxes like Minecraft and Terraria. To take item-based progression out of Zelda is to take platforming out of Mario. It is a fundamentally different game without it.

The original Metroids system of progression was directly inspired by that of Zeldas. The gold standard for metroidvanias exists because of the fact that the item based progression in Zelda worked so damn well. Straying from that was, and still is, the literal last thing Zelda as a franchise needs. Double down and design the games to benefit from item gating like a metroidvania, don’t try and halfway combine elements from both systems without realizing what makes them work so well to begin with like BotW did.

Its ok to not like item-based gated progression. But saying that its an objectively poor design choice is simply wrong. Item-based and stat-based progression systems both have their strengths and drawbacks, and if you prefer a stat-based progression, that’s great! Go play one of the literal hundreds of other open world games with a stat based progression instead and leave Zelda to the millions who prefer item-based.

 

[Sentinel]

Never have i seen a bigger opportunity to say the phrase “preaching to the choir.”

What's that supposed to mean? Genuinely asking because I'm not a native speaker.

Anyway, I replied to this thread once 2 years ago, but it’s worth repeating and rephrasing: Zelda is item gated progression. Thats the identity of the franchise. Thats one of the aspects why millions of people fell in love with it, myself included. Zelda prior to SS was one of the only franchises that managed to combine open worlds with an item based progression, and usually did it really well barring the occasional TP. The only other games that even kinda do that are sandboxes like Minecraft and Terraria. To take item-based progression out of Zelda is to take platforming out of Mario. It is a fundamentally different game without it.

The original Metroids system of progression was directly inspired by that of Zeldas. The gold standard for metroidvanias exists because of the fact that the item based progression in Zelda worked so damn well. Straying from that was, and still is, the literal last thing Zelda as a franchise needs. Double down and design the games to benefit from item gating like a metroidvania, don’t try and halfway combine elements from both systems without realizing what makes them work so well to begin with like BotW did.

Its ok to not like item-based gated progression. But saying that its an objectively poor design choice is simply wrong. Item-based and stat-based progression systems both have their strengths and drawbacks, and if you prefer a stat-based progression, that’s great! Go play one of the literal hundreds of other open world games with a stat based progression instead and leave Zelda to the millions who prefer item-based.

I agree with absolutely everything. That's why I was disappointed that Nintendo got rid of a lot of item-progression in BotW and rather focused on stat-based-progression or just pure exploration. At least I hope BotW2 combines both aspects because the item-progression made up for the entire Zelda franchise and this is what fascinated me about the Zelda games as a whole.

Go play one of the literal hundreds of other open world games with a stat based progression instead and leave Zelda to the millions who prefer item-based.

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[thePlinko]

What's that supposed to mean? Genuinely asking because I'm not a native speaker.

Oh, I’m sorry. “Preaching to the Choir” is a saying that means to speak to someone or a group of people about something that they already share your opinions on, like if a pastor or priest turned around and cited gospel to the choir behind him instead of the people in the pews.

Basically I was just saying that a massive chunk of us share the exact same feelings towards the subject as you do, at least to a degree. It’s not meant to be rude at all, just a playful “yeah, we understand exactly how you feel.”

 

[Uwu_Oocoo2]

A rumour popped up recently that BotW2 may very well be a linear and gated experience during the opening hours.

The rumour cited that a 'miasmic' Ganon would block off regions of the overworld and force more exploration of smaller areas at a time, kind of like how the Twilight in Twilight Princess sectioned off areas until later, making them inaccessible for a time.

Would you like this gating and linear approach to be taken with BotW2 considering the amount of freedom BotW gave players almost immediately?

Im not entirely sure if linear progression would work in terms of the style of game they're going for. Given how botw was set up, to make a sequel completely following the classic linearity would be too steep a change to justify. What I CAN see though is the use of soft gated progression. I like the idea of certain sections of the map being blocked off to start with. Maybe, instead of following the linear dungeon-by-dungeon area-by-area format, they could make it so you can choose which area you want to unlock next. Or, do the minor quests to unlock each indivual area all at once so you can explore the whole map before attempting the individual dungeons in each area. I would like to see a setup where the whole world isn't just handed to you and you have to earn each piece. Botw kind of presented too much all at once; I like the open world format but it can make it overwhelming deciding where you should go. To take things apart section by section might be a good idea.

 

[Sentinel]

Im not entirely sure if linear progression would work in terms of the style of game they're going for. Given how botw was set up, to make a sequel completely following the classic linearity would be too steep a change to justify.

Aonuma also stated how he wants to keep the open-air formular as a standard for later Zelda games.
Unless he scraped this idea somehow to make a mix out of open air and linear progression, I don't think they'll stop following the open air concept of BotW. At best they will restrict it to some points to make story telling/progression more efficient and more linear, so that the players have a clear path to follow.

Maybe, instead of following the linear dungeon-by-dungeon area-by-area format, they could make it so you can choose which area you want to unlock next. Or, do the minor quests to unlock each indivual area all at once so you can explore the whole map before attempting the individual dungeons in each area. I would like to see a setup where the whole world isn't just handed to you and you have to earn each piece. Botw kind of presented too much all at once; I like the open world format but it can make it overwhelming deciding where you should go. To take things apart section by section might be a good idea.

I'd like this idea; for this concept, players can explore like they want in the areas they're in rn and they have the freedom to choose which area they can unlock at first to explore it.

Bold: I also agree. BotW was great but I was often overwhelmed by the huge scale of the world and I often didn't know where to go. That's why I often neglected certain big areas to explore since I lost the overview of the progression. But to make entire areas into several pieces, it basically forces the player to be mainly focused on ONE area to explore.
Also, ironically, the Great Plateau was the first area in which I explored everything 100% without trying to randomly go to different areas and doing the same there halfassed. You were restricted to enter other areas -> you automatically explored what you could find in this area. But the moment I left the Great Plateau, I was immediately overwhelmed by the huge world. It was a very cool and funny experience but if I think about this now, I don't think it'd work that well for the sequel too, especially since the player already knows plenty of stuff from the BotW map. And the feeling of freedom is great at first in this game but it is superficial. I soon realised how unorganised I explored the several sections - and if you're also about to play 100h - 200h into this game, taking things apart in several sections won't hurt the experience either.