Yeah a bit suspicious of Chevy, because he didn't sound joking and seemed to just flip to that when he was called out for also voting Mikey. It's hard to tell with him though because I kinda feel like he did something similar in a previous game.
Suspecting Chevy at this point is fair, the main thing I noticed is that this was before people started town reading him. Could be early seed planting for a later lynch, but that's stretching it a little.
I have some thoughts but I need to check some things first. But at the moment SMS and Tristan are sticking out to me. I'm not entirely sure if it's in a good or bad way yet. They're just piquing my interest.
Also I did some brief looking into what I mentioned earlier. Tristan's read of SMS felt interesting to me at the time, because SMS's post actually was reminding me of Classic Video games mafia for some reason. And I checked and it did kinda feel like as town SMS is more jokey at first, whereas as scum he seems more proactive early on. And that's what I was feeling here.
Bundling these together because they touch on the same point. I don't particularly care about SMS's meta in this instance since people change their metas all the time. SMS was one of the first people in the game to give actual reads and was making some nice attempts to keep the game moving, which I think is a really silly thing to scumread someone for meta or not. He was acting in a pro-town manner, hence the town read.
Anyway, knowing now that SMS was town, I have to ask Minish, does my early read of him still ping you in the same way?
Chevy had some posts a bit back, the ones about it being his fault if he were mislynched, which actually sounded pretty genuine. Especially the post replying to Rag asking why it would be his fault and not the ones misreading him where he said because he got himself into the situation of being misread. I feel like scum is more likely to shift blame off of themselves, and town is more likely to feel bad for playing in a way to make town mislynch them.
Fair, and I agreed with this at the time.
I am self admittedly not great at reading SMS. And I'm not even confident at the moment. I just feel a bit odd everyone is town reading him over that post when I felt differently. And Tristan's contrast in how he read into it made me second guess myself and also kinda made me wonder if SMS is maybe town and Tristan is throwing bs out there for an easy pocket read. But it's a bit of paranoia.
What bs? You know how I feel about meta, so if I see someone say/do something that gives off town vibes I'm going to townread them for it. That's how this game should always be played and I will never ever change that opinion.
This is the same feeling I had about Pen. He's much more eager when he's mafia and chill when he's town.
Do you still feel this way about Pen going into today?
Mellow Ezlo - I tend to scum read Mez when he's town and vice versa. So no solid read on him yet, but he feels a bit scummy to me so we'll see if tradition keeps.
You said again later that I was acting scummy but to this point you have yet to actually explain why.
Spiritual Mask Salesman - I think if Tristan is scum SMS is town. If Tristan is town though SMS can go either way for me. I do kinda feel a bit more of his scum play, but I could also just be reading him wrong like I often do. I'll just need more info there.
The lack of confidence regarding Minish's SMS read sticks out to me a bit. Saying you're not confident with a read covers your butt when that person later flips since you can simply refer back to it and say "look I never actually scumread him". And I genuinely do feel like SMS was acting pretty townie at this point.
Your read of SMS seemed to hinge on my alignment so I'm curious if the inverse is also true?
Pen - Mentioned it briefly before but slight town read because he seems chill and laid back which reminds me of town Pen. Scum Pen seems to like to get down to business early, and he loves being scum so I would have expected him to pop in sooner if he were.
I get the thought process but I still think this is a really silly reason to townread someone. Especially when you had SMS, someone who was proactive and making attempts to move the game forward, as a null/seemingly scum lean.
Ragnarokio - I was originally town reading Rag for her prodding of Chevy, but the more I read the more I kind of went in the opposite direction. Her posts remind me a bit of when me and her were "scum" in an NGA game together. However we weren't truly scum as our goal was to just take down one person. But we were still hiding stuff that game so it's a bit similar.
Unvote
Vote: Rag
Was your entire read of Rag based on one niche game that less than half the players in this game were involved with?
Also reads list as a whole is OK, I already mentioned how half of them are null reads which is meh.
We were still keeping our alignment hidden and Rag feels like she's acting more like that than like she's town.
Yeah I don't try to read her by activity any more. I moreso try to look at if she feels like she's solving, or if she feels like she's prodding to look like she's solving.
It's more of a vibe thing, because I feel like that game you sounded really agreeable in thread, and would poke/question a lot of things. I'm not 100% positive that's how it was but that's my recollection of that game. And that's how I felt you were this time, rather than you pushing instead of questioning.
Oh yeah, I don't think you were diverting attention from you in that game. And I don't feel like you usually do as scum except maybe when you've been inactive. It's moreso that information gathering that I feel you do a bit less as town. Though I could be mistaken but that's my recollection of your meta.
Like I said above, I feel like the entire reasoning for this vote on Rag was based on a game in which she wasn't even technically mafia, and a game that most of us have no clue about. It just seems, idk, convenient? to me that the one game you consistently referenced in your read is one most of us can't really refer to.
Was there any reason for your vote beyond meta? Because Rag is someone who I feel changes her meta fairly often so it's not a great source of a read.
It's interesting you don't know if my Rag vote is serious or rvs but seem to know my readslist well enough when the vote was included in it. Also me and Rag had a whole back and forth after that as well.
This is actually a good callout.
Pen doesn't have to post a ton for me to have a read on him. I'm using his meta which is I find that he jumps in way sooner with a more serious tone when he's scum because he loves to be scum. The opposite of that would lead me to think he's possibly town this game. That's not a stretch by any means. Also, Kirino said the same thing yet you neglect to point that out.
It was a stretch because he literally did nothing that one can read into by this point. I realize that's the whole point you were trying to get to but - well I've already said my thoughts on that lol.
And if this wagon on Rag is bull what do you say about her own admittance that she's been playing more towards her scum meta?
I disliked that from Rag too, but this is rather flimsy.
I think Rag would absolutely say she's playing to her scum meta as scum. She's very smart and knows that something like that would look favorable. So it's not AI to me. And yeah most people aren't familiar with the game I am referencing and it was an unusual game to begin with. But I read people easier by being scum with them and that's the closest I have to that with Rag. You don't think that a case that someone who is usually more aggressive and proactive in helpful ways as town, but how is proactive in more fake ways (just prodding but not doing much else) as scum is strong? I don't know what to tell you there. I see a difference in her plays (one she admitted to herself, after I voted her mind you so it must have been a strong case if it were true) so I'm going to follow that.
If you weren't technically scum in that game, and it was unusual in many respects, then is it really a good game to use as the basis for your scumread?
I'm not giving him a pass. You're acting like I've town locked him, when I just think his play has warranted him a town enough read to not want to lynch him today. Also it has nothing to do with activity like you're seeming to imply (except for I think he would have been active in the game sooner as scum), it has to do with tone.
They're absolutely not stretches with hastily made conclusions, especially considering the fact that I tend to read them on these things in other games as well.
I don't think Rag is the easy vote here and I'm not sure why you think she is? She had two rvs votes on her that I don't take into consideration because they should be moved if not serious. And before I brought up my thoughts on Rag others were town reading her. It feels like you honed in on my reads list and read no other posts in the game.
As for you and Tristan, it was explained in my reads list. I'm bad at reading you both. Tristan seems a bit scummy to me and usually when I read him scum he's town. So I don't want to mislynch town d1 on a **** read. I feel like I can solve him and you with more posts. Rag I feel like is someone who will become more inactive the less interested she gets. And I actually felt like she was my strongest case after thinking about everyone.
This is where Minish successfully swayed SMS into voting for Rag (or, at the very least, prompted him to check her ISO). I still think Min's scum read on Rag was a bit flimsy so I'm surprised that SMS was swayed so easily. Either way, the important thing here is that Minish was essentially the main person behind the wheel of Rag's lynch. Mikey planted seeds for it earlier, but Minish got SMS to look in that direction which in turn was the cause for Chevy's vote, which had made Rag's wagon the central occurrence of EoD leading to Kirino's vote. Pen and Rubik kept their RVS votes on Rag in spite of the rapid acceleration of said wagon but neither really played a role in driving it.
I just woke up so I'll post more later but wanted to say this while the flip was still fresh on my mind. I don't know a ton about these series but I know some bits about some. I feel like I may have an idea of what SMS's role was but not sure if y'all want me to share that because it would also be giving mafia that info.
Keep it to yourself for now probably.
The main thing I got from Min's ISO is a reminder as to why I dislike relying on meta so much lol. The bases of all her reads, including on 2 people who flipped town, are meta-related, with Rag's being based on a game that should barely even count. She drove the Rag lynch and swayed a townie to join it, so as a whole I don't think that's a great look.