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Game Thread Bok's Fantasy Book Mafia

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
The wagon on Rag yesterday picked up steam rather quickly and I don’t think it was entirely pure. I feel like by the time votes pile on like that the person is probably town, hence why I ended up voting elsewhere.

Here’s a post I drafted during the night phase. Idk who died yet but I knew I’d be at work for start of day so I wanted to get my thoughts out as soon as possible.

I'll go ahead and throw my hat into the rag
vote: ragnorokio
I really appreciate the pun, and you did mention you would be fine with voting Rag in an earlier post, but I looked back through your posts and you never actually said why you thought she was suspicious. The seeds were planted when Chevy asked you to vote for me and you said you’d rather vote for Rag or Mido, but up until the EoD you never said why you wanted to vote in that direction. Then you joined a wagon that had two RVS votes on it and which ended up being town.

So I’ll ask now, did you have a reason for suspecting Rag? I realize it’s part of your playstyle to just throw around suspicion without explanation, but when that person flipped green it’s helpful to know why exactly you thought they were scummy.

Pen doesn't have to post a ton for me to have a read on him. I'm using his meta which is I find that he jumps in way sooner with a more serious tone when he's scum because he loves to be scum. The opposite of that would lead me to think he's possibly town this game. That's not a stretch by any means. Also, Kirino said the same thing yet you neglect to point that out.
I get this logic, but I find it rather silly. Being part of one’s meta is not an excuse to not participate when a lot was happening, especially when that person comes in later and says “lol I’m gonna keep my RVS vote cuz wynaut” which ends up resulting in a mislynch.

Unvote, Vote: Libk

libk hasn't really said enough all game to be readable but thats probably a good enough reason to lynch them and it beats letting myself be lynched
Self pres, not much to read into here.

This. Her biggest thing was with me about how I was saying I deserved lunch and she said it wasn't my fault if I got mislynched or something.

I'mnot getting your point, are you saying you like or dislike Rag?

I've liked her, I was saying I was with you on this because I don't get where everyone's coming from on her. Y'all also know I've been out of town so I haven't been wholly invested in this game as I'd like, so that's part of it.

I like that logic.
Unvote
Vote: Ragna
This is an awfully quick turnaround, even for a newbie.

I get why people are saying scum wouldn’t be this reckless, and his teammates likely would never let him do this. However, if I was scum with Chevy in this situation, I would probably tell him to find his own way out of this hole. So I don’t really think it’s likely this was a scum Chevy move, but I would absolutely not give him a pass for this. I also find it hard to buy that Chevy had enough time to read and properly analyze SMS’s ISO before placing this vote as it occurred less than 3 minutes after SMS posted it.

Nah
Unvote
Vote: Chevy

I'll swing this, idc. Scum af, and if you think it's mine mistake at this point, you're probably also scum or scum adjacent. I'll die on that hill
That said, this vote does read as slightly opportunistic (I’d say the same about Mikey’s if he hadn’t been tunneling Chevy most of the day). Wouldn’t put it past Johnny to use this as an easy bussing opportunity if they’re scumbuds. Not using this to form a read on either of them right now, but just as something to keep in mind later in case either of them flip.

Plausible enough scum.
Plausible enough to keep your RVS vote on her? (meant to post this last night before EoD but my boss caught me on my phone just as I was about to post it and I lost it oopsie).

Discussion on roles spurred by Ex, seems fine and is part of the discussions that broke us out of RVS, in my mind. Nothing remarkable though.

A follow up to the same discussion from the quote above, if anything it's good if Ex is Town because she talked him out of ideas on how to soft which isn't something we should be trying to rely on considering the rules. But overall, meh. I think at the time it was these posts I was liking that made me intially feel om about Rag, but in hindsight it's not as great as I was feeling at the time.

Another follow up to Ex.

Directed at Chevy when he became a talking point.

More engagement with Chevy.

Again, towards Chevy.

Chevy talk.

Ok, with everything on Chevy piled together my final thoughts are probably in line with Kirino and Minish now. It's sort of CWAC, I krpt thinling at the time her concern over Chevy probably comes from a legitimate townie mindset, but overall the content is mainly one line interactions asking him how he feels, and then analysis on why he might have done the things he did from his mindset. It would probably be really good content if Chevy was a wagon at the time, but pretty much everyone chalked it up to him being new.

Admits her press on Chevy came from a mindset thst he might be scum, I guess? Had a similar concern on me from my early analysis where I said Rag was giving me good vibes because she was at least contributing. Also admits she is playing within her scum meta. Idk how to take that atm.

Stuff about that NGA, matbe useful insight l, idk.

Decides to vote Libk because he hasn't said much and wants to self preserve.

Her most recent post, the whole debate of would someone say they are being scummy as scum or not is all just wifom and ultimately can go either way. The thing is I could totally see this being something scum Rag would bring up and I think she did some similar gambits in Spider Man Mafia?

Considering I still feel good about Kirino, and Minish's conviction on her own reads, and after this ISO, I'm thinking Rag is maybe the best option today.

Vote: Rag
This is a pretty good ISO. My only concern is the timing of it, since it came after SMS’s opinion on Rag had already been influenced by other players. I feel like it is much easier to scum read players (as scum, I should say) after people explain to you the reasons why that player is being scum read, so it’s equally easy to apply that logic to an ISO.

I’m not necessarily scum reading SMS for this, since I still think he was fairly townish before, but this is something that I noticed and something I see scum do fairly frequently (myself included). I think of it as hiding your sheeping under the guise of an ISO.

I’m also not sure how to feel about the quickness of this turnaround. Ex says it best in https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/boks-fantasy-book-mafia.70120/post-1272396]245[/url]

I don't like these posts, because imo town players should always be willing to say "I am Town" or some variation of that. Yes, mafia would want to say it too, but Town should just have no issue saying it.


Then again, this comes from a PoV that has played with roles where saying as much matters quite a bit.

Yeah I was attempting something that I've made work in other games. Still not sure why, after pointing out many pretty decent tells, no one went after Mikey but that game is in the past. That said it's partially why I liked Mikey point out Chevy ignoring questions, though those have been answered.
  1. Rubik – null
  2. Mellow Ezlo – null
  3. Mikey the Moblin - town lean
  4. ExLight – null
  5. Spiritual Mask Salesman – null
  6. Johnny Sooshi - scum lean
  7. Chevywolf30 - town lean
  8. Morbid Minish - town lean
  9. Pen – null
  10. Libk – Town
  11. Kirino - scum lean
  12. Mido – null
  13. Ragnarokio – null

I don't think I've seen enough to really say anything string about anyone at this point. On a scale of 1 - 10, if 5 is null, 1 is scum, 10 is town, and of my lean reads are currently either a 6 or a 4. Just slightly in those directions.


I'm getting slight flashbacks to jojo with Mikey, could be the playstyle, but it's different enough this time and Mikey doesn't seem to be repeating or ignoring players like that game which pinged me early on. In fact, pointing out Chevy was a good mark in my book.


Johnny Sooshi is pinging me really weird right now and I'm not entirely sure why. There seems to be a lot of non commital posts coming from Johnny since the first 24 hours of the phase. Even his vote on me seemed really non committed and he said as much in his post voting me. I don't like it, it smells fishy.


I think Chev seems to be experimenting with a more forward playstyle with more posts and trying to get information. Even if they turn out to be scum later down the line, for now I like this even if I don't like the posts coming, but willing to let them get some more experience. I think it's more likely they're a new player trying something new as town.


Minish I just have a town lean on but it's hard to read minish for me. For now I like the posts from minish.


Kirino is also pinging me in the same way that Sooshi is. Seems very non commital and doesn't really want to jump on anything, though in this case the vote on me seems jumping on a potentially easy wagon.


NOTE:


I checked up on posts that came in while I was typing this and wow there's quite a bit here. I actually feel less good about Chevy after that vote and then the follow up reasoning. Especially when someone else stated earlier in the thread that scum like to point at their scumminess as a way to try and prove they're town. I don't recall who said that but I agree with this and don't like how quick Chevy voted.
I'll go ahead and do this.


Vote: Chevywolf30


I was willing to think maybe they were town trying some new playstyle out, but now it kind of feels like excited new scum. Putting Rag to L1 is crazy.


I'm also a little sus of Pen and Mido, though I like Mido's few posts. Pen has basically said nothing. They're null reads for me but I'd like to see more from at least Pen. I don't really care for day one either, but this one got serious quick. At least something from Pen in the form of serious post would be nice.
Good Libk post. My main issue is the number of null reads, because null reads are super easy to make and more than half of them are nulls. I think by this point everyone should be able to make a full list of town/scum reads, but I can also acknowledge that Libk likely had a lot of catching up to do.

As a whole, I appreciate this post for what it is and the town/scum reads seem fair enough. I also like that he isn’t giving Kirino a pass, though I’m not sure I really agree with the read as Kirino has looked fairly town to me.

Libk’s is probably the Chevy vote that I like the most, because it has a sincere explanation to it and doesn’t feel opportunistic (I can also appreciate that it was probably at least partially in the interest of self pres).

Overall a solid entrance for Libk and one that makes me glad he didn’t ultimately end up being the day’s lynch.

I don’t think Chevy is scum, and if he is, he’s an incredibly reckless and incompetent one, although I get the urge to policy lynch him after that. Libk has surprisingly come in clutch with his reads list, and even if I wanted to still vote for him, it’s clearly not happening. I think Rag is a bit questionable too, but I think she has the best chance of being scum between the three.

Unvote

Vote: Rag


I’m somewhat uncertain about this, so I could see myself changing before the day ends. I’m not going to be able to be consistently around, though, so I should place my vote now.
This is probably the Rag vote that I like the most, and it’s fair enough. I wouldn’t have wanted to lynch Libk after his entrance either and with so little time left in the day there weren’t many more options. In the spirit of transparency, however, it is important to note this vote brought Rag back to L-1.

where did this mido suggestion even come from
Where did either of them come from lol.

spoke too soon maybe lmao
lmao tru

ngl having a bit of a hard time figuring out how Rag went from “easy wagon” to “best option today” if all she did was pressure Chevy who you were townleaning
I like this a lot.

oh wow uh
can you put in your own words what you understood from his logic to vote rag?
I also really like this push. Shame Chevy never responded to it.

I'm keeping my RVS vote for now since I'm not trusting or distrusting anyone more than anyone else at the moment, but I want to contribute to voting somehow.
I really don’t like this. I get wanting to sit back, but this just seems like a lame excuse to contribute to what ended up being – and by the end was pretty obviously going to be - a mislynch.

It's pretty funny, back in the day making big reads lists was somehow considered scummy. Personally I wouldn't put too much stock into reading someone just based on the fact that they made a reads list.
LIST=SCUM!!11!!!1!1

Lol I remember those days.

vigs should shoot cw if the flip is town obvs
I'm surprised there's no movement from mido/mezlo/ex
Almost as if I said multiple times that I was working through EoD!

I like this look from Mikey though if Chevy flips scum, earlier tunneling aside. Asking the vig to shoot someone is easier to buy than a bus.
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
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eh?
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Slothkin
To sum up, of the votes on Rag, Chevy’s is obviously the worst. Kirino’s and Minish’s I probably like the most. SMS is somewhere in the middle, and Mikey kind of hinges on Chevy’s alignment for me right now. Pen and Rubik’s votes don’t have much to read into but I don’t like the idea of holding onto RVS votes beyond the RVS stage in general so I am really weary of both of them.

Johnny’s vote on Chevy has me concerned about him. I liked Ex’s posts towards EoD. Libk had a solid entrance so I’d like to see him maintain that steam. Mido is someone I would love to hear more from because I liked his few posts earlier but his disappearance was concerning.
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
Chevy flip genuinely surprises me. That eod was super scummy. The wagon is open to judgment, myself included, but I'm willing to give Mikey town pants for jumping on it so quickly, and I'm not super inclined to think Libk is either. I'll go double check his late D1 posts and see if I can learn anything from it. His pickup in activity is really what had me town leaning him on that one

I Rag's wagon is my starting point. It gained speed really slowly, but I didn't like how it had people jumping ship and boarding right up to the last minute. Min and Kirino are good staring points there, and if either one were scum or vig, I could see them aiming to kill Chevy overnight after a mislynch.

SMS feels like either a scum play, aimed at getting a talkative and engaging player out, or a possible SK push for the same.

Stay tuned, I'll be back soon, or maybe in the morning, idk. It's nearly 1 am and I'm tired.
 

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
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I'm sorry SMS I don't really see much from your iso
you suspected rag and chevy the most...

oh well
I'm assuming chevy was the vigshot, if so good job, they'd probably be stifling all discussion today and eating the lynch otherwise
 

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
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I really appreciate the pun, and you did mention you would be fine with voting Rag in an earlier post, but I looked back through your posts and you never actually said why you thought she was suspicious. The seeds were planted when Chevy asked you to vote for me and you said you’d rather vote for Rag or Mido, but up until the EoD you never said why you wanted to vote in that direction. Then you joined a wagon that had two RVS votes on it and which ended up being town.

So I’ll ask now, did you have a reason for suspecting Rag? I realize it’s part of your playstyle to just throw around suspicion without explanation, but when that person flipped green it’s helpful to know why exactly you thought they were scummy.
not a ton if I'm being honest
the mechanical discussion opener gave me flashbacks to my very first mafia game here where they were a wolf
I also thought their string of investigative questions was too much nothing considering it wasn't anything that actually helped rag worldbuild or solve, not that was shown anyway
that's about it, I'm honestly in disbelief chevy flipped town that L-1 terrified me

we should never kill rag that eod, too many people are okay with the lynch for it to ever be on a wolf is the logic there
 

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
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I Rag's wagon is my starting point. It gained speed really slowly, but I didn't like how it had people jumping ship and boarding right up to the last minute. Min and Kirino are good staring points there, and if either one were scum or vig, I could see them aiming to kill Chevy overnight after a mislynch.
I'm inclined to agree, mostly because of the reason I outlined above
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
Good post by Tristan overall, and I'm sure I'll reread it to pick it apart more, potentially, but I don't like this here

This is probably the Rag vote that I like the most, and it’s fair enough. I wouldn’t have wanted to lynch Libk after his entrance either and with so little time left in the day there weren’t many more options. In the spirit of transparency, however, it is important to note this vote brought Rag back to L-1.

What exactly about the vote was there to like? It was a measured vote that stuck to a player that they really didn't think was scum. It plays out very similarly to Pen, who you criticized for maintaining a vote when he had no real reason to. It also, as you noted, put Rag in hammer range. L-1 is more likely from scum than an actual hammer, which maintains the safeness that the post seems to give off.
 

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
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southworst united states
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Dude
That said, this vote does read as slightly opportunistic (I’d say the same about Mikey’s if he hadn’t been tunneling Chevy most of the day). Wouldn’t put it past Johnny to use this as an easy bussing opportunity if they’re scumbuds. Not using this to form a read on either of them right now, but just as something to keep in mind later in case either of them flip.
why is it opportunistic?
 

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